Found Deceased Canada - Eugene Kim, 38, Markham, Ont, 2 Oct 2017

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lady_columbo said:
We know that he planned to be away and went to the park area. Yet the family continues to deny that he left by choice that day. They are doing a disservice to themselves by not being upfront and open, and continuing the charade. This lack of information is frustrating for those of us who are concerned, and are trying to help. Just saying "find him" isn't going to help if people keep looking for a different looking person, in a different place.
I hope they see this post and reconsider their approach. I say all of this in the true spirit of trying to help them.
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You think it is a charade?
Perhaps it is what they believe, perhaps its what they want to believe, need to believe.

What is it you believe they are not being upfront about? We have read when he was last seen, where he was seen, what he is driving, that messages were sent.
I expect they are frightened, grieving, out of their minds with worry and really don't know what is happening
 
lady_columbo said:
We know that he planned to be away and went to the park area. Yet the family continues to deny that he left by choice that day. They are doing a disservice to themselves by not being upfront and open, and continuing the charade. This lack of information is frustrating for those of us who are concerned, and are trying to help. Just saying "find him" isn't going to help if people keep looking for a different looking person, in a different place.
I hope they see this post and reconsider their approach. I say all of this in the true spirit of trying to help them.
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I agree with this 10000000000000%.
 
Dushi said:
You think it is a charade?
Perhaps it is what they believe, perhaps its what they want to believe, need to believe.

What is it you believe they are not being upfront about? We have read when he was last seen, where he was seen, what he is driving, that messages were sent.
I expect they are frightened, grieving, out of their minds with worry and really don't know what is happening
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No doubt they are all these things, with utmost certainty.

But consider the circumstances here. He told his wife he was doing some sort of business transaction late at night. We would love to know (and I wonder why it wasn't mentioned in MSM) that this sort of behaviour was never previously discussed between him and his wife. I had mentioned in a previous post - that I wondered if they have the kid of marriage where they discuss work topics? Wouldn't the wife find it strange that he just decided to conduct a large business transaction late at night?

Tons of us on here would LOVE to have more information and there are also a few of us I'm sure who think that there is more info that we aren't being told. It would help a great deal in determining where he could be.

I don't think he's anywhere near North Bay at all anymore. He's probably within a full gas tank's distance of where he last filled up.
 
Dushi said:
Perhaps it is what they believe, perhaps its what they want to believe, need to believe.
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I appreciate their worry and grief. Believing and sharing "what they want to believe, need to believe" is NOT going to help bring him back. Facing, accepting and sharing facts, can.
(1) They say he would not leave...he did and did so, with a plan. He called in sick.
(2) They claim he would not go anywhere without telling them and saying when he would be back...he did. He went to the park. He stated he would be back in an hour when he couldn't possibly have been.
(3) They claim he would not leave of his free will - he did. LE confirmed this.
(4) They shared a picture of him - using your words and for example (not saying that is the reason they used this picture, so don't fly off the handle) - wanting/needing to believe he looks that way, is not going to make it so. If they share a picture of how he looks now, people are more likely to recognize him.

Emotions (fear, grief) are one thing. In order to solve this problem, the approach needs to be logical. The sooner he is found, the better the chance of him coming home safe.
 
lady_columbo said:
We know that he planned to be away and went to the park area. Yet the family continues to deny that he left by choice that day. They are doing a disservice to themselves by not being upfront and open, and continuing the charade. This lack of information is frustrating for those of us who are concerned, and are trying to help. Just saying "find him" isn't going to help if people keep looking for a different looking person, in a different place.
I hope they see this post and reconsider their approach. I say all of this in the true spirit of trying to help them.
Click to expand...

Inspektor Clueso said:
I agree with this 10000000000000%.
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In regards to his parents, I'm quite sure they are genuinely shocked and in disbelief. Seeing that the mom was to fly out to Korea the next day, and Father was already in Korea on 'business' (also well known in the K Association meaning he has spent many years building up his network, winning elections, etc.,) means they have likely been less in detailed touch in how he was doing not just now but as a normal part of their relationship. Basically given their busy mindset and schedule (mother runs a big accounting business), it's likely they missed alot of cues. And or Eugene was also withdrawn from interacting more tensely with them. Brother and Scott (BIL) also genuinely seem perplexed. I'm sure if they felt he was suicidal, they would have expressed that right away to try to 'save' him instead of trying to protect his reputation.

As for the wife, she also seems genuinely unsure. Mind could be racing and not having the chance to really reflect. And let's face it, even the greatest relationships go through strain and or issues that needs to be worked through. I don't know any couple in their 30's, especially with the 2nd kid, balancing schedule, budget, stressful/unfulfilling job (check glassdoor and it's considered stressful/high turnover, really contingent on sales closing) who doesn't go through 'normal' issues. The challenge for the wife is likely differentiating normal stressors vs anything that might seem out of the ordinary. Chances are, in her haste and her belief that nothing is wrong, + imagine the stress of dealing with the children? is making it hard for her at this time to get into anything that might cross her mind. But I do definitely think there is something there, but harder to say explicitly "yes, he had a breakdown last year" or "has been increasingly withdrawn".

But I do see and definitely feel a bit of "c'mon, we really genuinely want to help. It's crushing to think of what the children and family are going through. But gawd mon, please provide additional details and a more formal account of what happened! Including updated and more formal pics. Time is of the essence".
 
Picante....very well said.

Forget the worry about "what people will think"., and continue pretending that nothing is wrong. A father left of his own free will and has been missing for 10 days. Many person hours, funds (including tax payers' - mine and yours) and resources have been spent trying to find him.

There are situations that one can keep under wraps. If they wish to leave no stone unturned to try and find him, this is not one such situation where anything should be kept covered. Share fully and let's try to bring him back.
 
GTA said:
ARTICLE FROM YORK REGION (CITY WEBSITE) NEIGHBOUR STATED HE SAW EUGENE LEAVE HIS HOME AT 10:30am.
https://www.yorkregion.com/news-sto...for-missing-markham-man-at-willowdale-church/
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Thank you GTA. I thought his normal time to leave used to be 7am to drop his kids off. Did he usually come back home and then leave for work later?

Since news said he dropped "kids" off, I presume he dropped both of them off - one to school and the 2 year old to daycare. 7am is early to drop the kids off to school/daycare, assuming the school/daycare is close by. I would think he would drop them off this early, so he could go to work right after that. In that case, he may never be seen by a neighbour at 10.30am. Or had the neighbour seen him at that time before? What was he doing when his neighbour saw him - was he loading things into the trunk? How was his demeanour?

Did his wife see him at 7am? Did they speak to each other? How was his demeanour?
 
Part of the reason they may not be sharing is because they may feel guilty, lacking in their abilities to avoid this situation and afraid to be judged. I understand and empathize.

The primary concern right now should be his well being and getting him home. A logical, concerted effort is needed to make that happen.
 
Someone already mentioned this, HIRE PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, hire more than 1.

Eugene Kim now has over $40,000 in page they created.

https://www..com/find-eugene-kim
 
I've followed a lot of missing people cases here on WS over the years and the thing that strikes me the most is that when a missing person is missing because they choose to go missing, people stop looking for them. In many cases we don't get the whole story because it's messy and upsetting and the missing person may not be all that likeable. How often to we see teens go missing and we assume they're runaways and skip over their thread. Same thing here.

I think the family knows he left on his own but are hoping beyond hope to find him before something bad happens. And at this point, it may have already happened.

LE really don't seem to be doing a lot but I could be wrong.

The family doesn't owe us anything. They've asked us for help in locating their loved one. They want us to watch for the car and Eugene. They are not prepared to air their laundry in public. They don't want us to delve into their private lives. TBH it's none of our business.

I think they just want us to be on the lookout and no more.

I know it's frustrating. We have many questions and they are not going to be answered.

MOO
 
lady_columbo said:
Thank you GTA. I thought his normal time to leave used to be 7am to drop his kids off. Did he usually come back home and then leave for work later?

Since news said he dropped "kids" off, I presume he dropped both of them off - one to school and the 2 year old to daycare. 7am is early to drop the kids off to school/daycare, assuming the school/daycare is close by. I would think he would drop them off this early, so he could go to work right after that. In that case, he may never be seen by a neighbour at 10.30am. Or had the neighbour seen him at that time before? What was he doing when his neighbour saw him - was he loading things into the trunk? How was his demeanour?

Did his wife see him at 7am? Did they speak to each other? How was his demeanour?
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Dushi said:
Eugene Kim was last seen by his family on Monday morning at 7 a.m. in the area of Bayview Avenue and Royal Orchard Bouelvard.

http://www.cp24.com/news/markham-ma...-be-home-soon-before-he-disappeared-1.3618936

A neighbour was the last known person to see the 38-year-old man as he left his house in the Bayview Avenue and Royal Orchard Boulevard area of Thornhill on Monday, Oct. 2 at about 10:30 a.m

https://www.yorkregion.com/news-sto...for-missing-markham-man-at-willowdale-church/
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It's very common here in the Toronto area to leave around 7 am to drop kids off. Often even earlier due to travel time, distance, etc. Especially if they are at different locations. Usually one does the drop off and pick up. Traffic here in the city is horrendous and you have to build in a lot of time.

For me, I leave my house around 7:20 to drop my 2 toddlers off at the same daycare, and I'm considered close to my daycare (10 minutes opposite side of work) and average time to get to work (about 1 hr). Since the drop off adds 20-25 minutes, + 1 hr for work, I get downtown just before 9:00 am. And I'm considered to have it easy!

Kindergarden would start around 8:30 or so. So depending on which order he goes, it could take 20 -30 minutes for the first drop off (longer since he might have to take the other kid out to see them into the facility). Then another 20-30 minutes for the next. Always longer when you build in actual walking in the child. And at a school, it would be much busier to navigate out. Then onto wherever he goes for 9 am or so. Now as a sales guy, he probably has more flexibility in going into and out of the office (I assume there is an office for this company). Now it looks like he came back home after dropping the kids off and wife went to work which is when the neighbour saw him and or his car. But yes, any sort of action he might have been doing is important for the neighbour to report/remember.

His wife being a teacher who leaves earlier might be doing the pick-up. Or she works really far away (like 1 +hr drive which is nothing here in the GTA) and has to get in 30 minutes before classes start so he does both (I read somewhere he was supposed to do the pick-up).

When I leave in the morning, I last see my wife when I leave or sometimes she rushes out while the kids are still inside with me. We barely have any time for niceties and any sort of chit chat and dont' even see each other squarely in the face. Sometimes the mood is a bit more tensed/stressed given the balancing required (2 working parents here in the GTA will easily attest to that). So in that aspect, I would think the wife did not suspect anything. I would like to hear anything from the daycare facility or school if they noticed him at all, looking or acting different.
 
At this point, I am not sure if LE or park rangers are actively looking for him, since there is no suspicion of criminal activity. As well, as time passes resources get pulled off, to handle other immediately pressing matters.

People too close to the situation are caught up in emotions. Someone needs to look at things logically.

I am a logical thinker, and pretty good at behaviour analysis. I, and I am sure, a few others like Picante, who is Korean and understands the culture nuances, would be happy to help, without charge. Often, the questions asked can trigger a memory of a family member or friend and points to place(s) to look at.

But the output would be only as good as the input. If the information provided is lacking or inhibited, it is hard to picture potential behaviour.
 
Any thoughts on the person that may have been with him?
How does that person fit in?
 
Tealgrove, as good human beings, our duty is to try. When people are caught up in emotional situations, they don't always make sound decisions. We can share our thoughts regarding an alternate approach. It is up to the family to decide. I will have peace that I tried my best to help.

You said "The family doesn't owe us anything". I hope they feel they owe their son/husband and themselves, to leave no stone unturned.
 
lady_columbo said:
At this point, I am not sure if LE or park rangers are actively looking for him, since there is no suspicion of criminal activity. As well, as time passes resources get pulled off, to handle other immediately pressing matters.

People too close to the situation are caught up in emotions. Someone needs to look at things logically.

I am a logical thinker, and pretty good at behaviour analysis. I, and I am sure, a few others like Picante, who is Korean and understands the culture nuances, would be happy to help, without charge. Often, the questions asked can trigger a memory of a family member or friend and points to place(s) to look at.

But the output would be only as good as the input. If the information provided is lacking or inhibited, it is hard to picture potential behaviour.
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Very much agree in jogging the memory in hopes of triggering something. IMO, they do need that experienced, more objective type guidance who will look back and try to organize a more formal approach to releasing the details of what happened. Including asking the family to release more updated photos and working with the police in the official account of what happened. Basically a more forensic approach, including the video of where exactly and what time it was taken. Making sure the news media gets an updated version with that more detailed official account.

There could be people close or not that close that want to say something that might result in a sort of fighting, but aren't or don't want to for fear of incurring the saddening wrath of the family. And or the family is in that bubble with tension/emotions running high. Experts like the Police may also have concluded the likelihood of something and also therefore not as easily suaded into putting more resources into this. The fact that a Child Psychologist recommended they tell their children on the Monday says that initial pressure by more professional services anticipate the worse and it's pretty much a recovery now. Also the media jumps on a hot story but of course moves on to other stories which might be slowing it down.

Overall, the people in charge of the making the decisions to disseminate to the public (brothers) might be overwhelmed too, and not thinking straight. Hopefully something does come out but than again, the people around them might not be questioning them so it's hard to think they can improve on their details released.
 
Picante knows more than I have read. For example, that his wife is a teacher and that he was supposed to pick up the kids.
This explains why he told his wife he would be late leaving work, so she could pick up the kids that day. This shows further pre-planning.
 
lady_columbo said:
I appreciate their worry and grief. Believing and sharing "what they want to believe, need to believe" is NOT going to help bring him back. Facing, accepting and sharing facts, can.
(1) They say he would not leave...he did and did so, with a plan. He called in sick.
(2) They claim he would not go anywhere without telling them and saying when he would be back...he did. He went to the park. He stated he would be back in an hour when he couldn't possibly have been.
(3) They claim he would not leave of his free will - he did. LE confirmed this.
(4) They shared a picture of him - using your words and for example (not saying that is the reason they used this picture, so don't fly off the handle) - wanting/needing to believe he looks that way, is not going to make it so. If they share a picture of how he looks now, people are more likely to recognize him.

Emotions (fear, grief) are one thing. In order to solve this problem, the approach needs to be logical. The sooner he is found, the better the chance of him coming home safe.
Click to expand...


With all due respect, I believe there are a lot of assumptions being made here. Maybe you're correct, but I can think of other reasons for the above which, in my opinion, are valid and worthy of consideration too.

Maybe he didn't leave with a plan. Is it possible he was actually feeling ill when he called in sick?

Could he have been car-jacked and forced to drive to that destination?

I know it was stated that he was not seen with another person, but could someone have been hidden in the car? Even have LE fooled?

Could he have been too frightened to say anything?

Could someone have threatened him or​ his family if he didn't agree to their terms?

Are we certain beyond a doubt that he had control of his phone? Could it have been someone else, sending messages for him?

Could he have had an accident, even one near water, that has nothing to do with voluntarily leaving, or intentionally taking his own life?

You're entitled to your beliefs, and I'm not saying you're wrong. Chances are, in fact, that you're right.

But I see other possibilities. Not probabilities perhaps, but possibilities.

How can we really know for sure what happened?

In my opinion, his family is entitled to any feelings they have. They can say whatever they want, they can use any photo they want.

Honest, I'm not intending to come across as snarky at all. I know you're here because you care and want to help.

I'm just asking how can we hold up any reality mirrors for them when we don't know for certain, what that reality is?

JMO
 
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