Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[Seattle1]

Bringing over @otto maps from MEDIA/NO DISCUSSION thread.

Gillam Manitoba Area

Hydro lines

Dump location and search area

Burned vehicle and proximity to train line

Train line stops

 

[musicaljoke]

Quite a few spree killers have no prior criminal record. And maybe it's the other way around -- maybe they liked the game because they had interest in this topic in general. But I agree, there are a lot of unanswered questions about who these guys were, their motives, what led up to the killing, what their thought processes may have been, etc. The police may have found more information on those topics through their investigation into their online activity, etc. but it just hasn't been released.

We don't know for sure that they have no criminal records. One thing that makes me wonder if they have been in trouble before is that they apparently attended alternative highschool. This was mentioned by a person in an earlier thread.

I realise that alternative highschool is available for a variety of reasons unrelated to crime, but one reason students might attend is because they've been expelled from regular highschool.

 

[acutename]

I bet. The farthest I've been is the sequoias up a seven mile dirt road, no stores around for 20 miles or so. It was a designated campsite though and pretty idyllic. Trails up to pristine lakes that had trout in them, etc.

But I had moments of serious anxiety being so far from contact with emergency services, hospitals, etc.

It fascinates me to hear about people's experiences doing serious wilderness excursions. I wish I had the fortitude to do it.

I'm not sure these guys do. It's hard to say. What were they really doing out in their outdoors near their home? One parent describes it as war games and survivalist stuff both of which are different things. Did they acquire any real knowledge? Do they have any real skill?

That would make the difference for me in determining their survivability. I'm guessing the RCMP has had extensive discussions with family and friends and neighbors and has examined their internet activity and purchases so they probably know whether these two young guys can handle it and possibly for how long.

I think you could bleed to death in the worst situation:

Arctic Warming Produces Mosquito Swarms Large Enough to Kill Baby ...

https://earthfirstjournal.org/.../arctic-warming-produces-mosquito-swarms-large-enoug...
Sep 17, 2015 - Arctic Warming Produces Mosquito Swarms Large Enough to Kill Baby .... That is why the moose, which 40 years ago used to live only in the ...

 

[NJSleuth91]

We don't know for sure that they have no criminal records. One thing that makes me wonder if they have been in trouble before is that they apparently attended alternative highschool. This was mentioned by a person in an earlier thread.

I realise that alternative highschool is available for a variety of reasons unrelated to crime, but one reason students might attend is because they've been expelled from regular highschool.

Yeah I was going to say that in my original post. A lot of times juvenile records are sealed or purged if the offender stays out of trouble or completes a diversion program. And a lot of times problems in school, like violence against a classmate, don't get to the legal system and are handled in the school. Obviously we have no idea if anything like that happened, but it can't be ruled out at this point, especially if they went to an alternative school.

 

[huntergerrard]

"Police did not find anything near the boat last night except for a red and white water jug."

I can't imagine any living person would leave behind a water jug when they're hiding in the wilderness. Either it was dropped overboard, lost if/when the boat capsized, or they're not alive. JMO.

 

[Thinkzerz]

RSBBM


Why won’t they, I wonder?

Most likely because of water washing anything off it.

 

[huntergerrard]

How many days do you think the diving team with be out there? Wouldn’t their bodies be way down stream by now? Thats IF they were even on that boat.

This still feels like a needle in the haystack search.

 

[dameagatha]

Google Earth image of Limestone dam & Sundance site.

 

[Dee10]

Quite a few spree killers have no prior criminal record. And maybe it's the other way around -- maybe they liked the game because they had interest in this topic in general. But I agree, there are a lot of unanswered questions about who these guys were, their motives, what led up to the killing, what their thought processes may have been, etc. The police may have found more information on those topics through their investigation into their online activity, etc. but it just hasn't been released.

Exactly, and that is why it is important to document and analysis all the "spree killers" to try and find out a common thought process and hopefully find a pattern & data base to be able to assess or hopefully predict patterns in the future. Preventive, not reactive!

 

[Handsome Sailor]

How could they go so wrong in life at such a young age?

 

[Kiantra]

If a flat bottom boat is not river worthy for the Nelson, then where did it come from? Would locals even have one if it’s not safe or practical to use?

 

[Diezelmonster]

not a gamer at all , so I read the Wikipedia description of RUST. Supposedly players frequently try to just off each other and everyone competes to grab "supplies" which are left in various spots. It did sound a little like this trip. So my Q: could people really be so delusional that they try to live out a video game in the real world? I have trouble understanding how these two guys go from having no criminal record (I think) to just killing people and stealing cars. Even with prior quoted statements from BS in middle school about killing, this whole thing seems abrupt. IMO

Menhaz Zaman, a 23 year old kid from Markham Ontario has no prior record, just killed his whole family. Had been talking about it on a website called discord, also would talk about it while playing games. I'm sure everyone feels the same about him.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5228659

Alek Minassian, 25 also Canadian mowed down people on a busy sidewalk in Toronto and killed 10 and injured many people, in 7 minutes.

Inside the life of Alek Minassian, the Toronto van rampage suspect no one thought capable of murder

Read that story, no prior records, just flipped. A computer programmer with not many friends.

Worst mass murder in Toronto history.

So these are just two examples of young people doing this sort of thing, and this is just Canada. These were big news here. THIS is big news here, KM and BS maybe have just begun? If they are not already dead.

JMO.

 

[NJSleuth91]

This still feels like a needle in the haystack search.

I will be absolutely amazed if RCMP is able to find their remains, if they're dead (which I'm pretty convinced they are).

Exactly, and that is why it is important to document and analysis all the "spree killers" to try and find out a common thought process and hopefully find a pattern & data basis to be able to assess or predict patterns. Preventive!

My guess is LE is doing just that as we speak. It takes a while for them to compile and release a lot of this information to the public. In the US they didn't release a report on Adam Lanza until a few years after the Sandy Hook shooting, IIRC. I'm sure more information will come out, especially if they are found either dead or alive.

 

[Andreee]

This still feels like a needle in the haystack search.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Arizona 123]

How do you determine that the rapids in this area are significant? I know nothing about whitewater rafting or river maps, so I appreciate your informative post.

I looked at satellite photos, google earth and Bing, starting at the limesone generating station (about a mile from the RAV4) and on downstream. I looked for whitewater. There's a line rapid less than a mile below the generating station (right at Sundance). This one (based on only this one photo, so please take with a huge dose of salt) looks very minor, based on lack of turbidity waves downstream. However, there's a more significant (more whitewater, more hydraulic standing waves) a little short of halfway to the end of the road. From the look of it, you could get around it in an aluminum boat (enter it hard to the northern shore, pass the first rapid line to your right, then pull hard for the center channel), if you saw it coming in time, if you had propulsion, and if you knew what you are doing. In the dark, or with just a paddle, or if you didn't know how to run rapids... would not end well IMHO.

BTW, I have only been whitewater rafting with guides, not on my own, so I'm no expert. I would not like to try the rapid I described above on my own, and that's in an inflatable (vastly better suited for running rapids than an aluminum skiff).

One other thing; both times I was thrown out of the raft (a couple of years apart), my lifejacket and helmet saved me. The technique is to float through the rapid feet first. The bulky life-jacket keeps you higher in the water, so you hit less. I still found it very nerve-wracking, even though I didn't hit many rocks, and even then only lightly, just a few abrasions. It helped that I'm a strong swimmer and was able to pull for shore as soon as I hit a slack eddy. My hunch is that had it not been for my helmet and lifejacket, I would have more likely died (either from hitting rocks, or getting trapped against a rock underwater).

 

[acutename]

Wow, not what I expected. Thanks for that.

Here's what boating down the Nelson looks like:

are all those guys still alive? looks like class v rapids and lots of rocks...

 

[Seattle1]

I looked at satellite photos, google earth and Bing, starting at the limesone generating station (about a mile from the RAV4) and on downstream. I looked for whitewater. There's a line rapid less than a mile below the generating station (right at Sundance). This one (based on only this one photo, so please take with a huge dose of salt) looks very minor, based on lack of turbidity waves downstream. However, there's a more significant (more whitewater, more hydraulic standing waves) a little short of halfway to the end of the road. From the look of it, you could get around it in an aluminum boat (enter it hard to the northern shore, pass the first rapid line to your right, then pull hard for the center channel), if you saw it coming in time, if you had propulsion, and if you knew what you are doing. In the dark, or with just a paddle, or if you didn't know how to run rapids... would not end well IMHO.

BTW, I have only been whitewater rafting with guides, not on my own, so I'm no expert. I would not like to try the rapid I described above on my own, and that's in an inflatable (vastly better suited for running rapids than an aluminum skiff).

One other thing; both times I was thrown out of the raft (a couple of years apart), my lifejacket and helmet saved me. The technique is to float through the rapid feet first. The bulky life-jacket keeps you higher in the water, so you hit less. I still found it very nerve-wracking, even though I didn't hit many rocks, and even then only lightly, just a few abrasions. It helped that I'm a strong swimmer and was able to pull for shore as soon as I hit a slack eddy. My hunch is that had it not been for my helmet and lifejacket, I would have more likely died (either from hitting rocks, or getting trapped against a rock underwater).

From your group of maps/photos - can you detect their potential destination in taking the river boat?

Can't help but think maybe they planned to hug the shoreline for a bit-- hoping not to be detected when Rav4 discovered, and also did not want to be immediately tracked by dogs.

MOO

 

[Seattle1]

double post

 

[kmclaren]

Yes, Globe and Mail RCMP divers to begin searching river near Gillam after finding rowboat, search for B.C. fugitives continues

"The boat was located in an area known as the lower Limestone Rapids, near Keewatinoow converter station. Police did not find anything near the boat last night except for a red and white water jug."

I'm off to google it myself but does anyone recall was Keewatinoow the place where RCMP had to search abandoned Manitoba Hydro camp buildings? I remember there was a place with about 600 rooms they searched.

 

[dotr]

I'm off to google it myself but does anyone recall was Keewatinoow the place where RCMP had to search abandoned Manitoba Hydro camp buildings? I remember there was a place with about 600 rooms they searched.

"Manitoba Mounties are also searching through large abandoned buildings, police said, including the Keewatinohk converter station camp that was used as a temporary work camp for Manitoba Hydro and is located roughly 90 kilometres northeast of Gillam."
https://www.coastmountainnews.com/n...-camps-for-b-c-murder-suspects-in-gillam-man/