Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[dotr]

does anyone how high or low this river is lately? is there a Canadian web site with river gauges/water levels? or is it too remote here to have measurements? thanks.

Maybe at these link?
Flood Warnings and Advisories - River Forecast Centre - Province of British Columbia

Ended: High Streamflow Advisory - North Thompson River
Ended: High Streamflow Advisory - Northeast
Issued: 11:00 AM July 17, 2019
The River Forecast Centre is ending the High Streamflow Advisory for the North Thompson River including:

• NORTH THOMPSON RIVER AT BIRCH ISLAND (08LB047) and ungagged tributaries
• BLUE RIVER NEAR BLUE RIVER (08LB038)

The River Forecast Centre is ending the High Streamflow Advisory for the Northeast including:

• The MUSKWA RIVER NEAR FORT NELSON (10CD001)
• The SIKANNI CHIEF RIVER NEAR FORT NELSON (10CB001)
• The FONTAS RIVER NEAR THE MOUTH (10CA001)
• Other rivers and creeks in the Northeast, including Fort Nelson River, the Prophet River, Snake River, Klua Creek, and tributaries.The River Forecast Centre will continue to monitor the conditions and update this advisory as conditions warrant.

Real-Time Hydrometric Data Map Search - Water Level and Flow - Environment Canada

 

[Kubirai]

Here's how the fur traders made their way to York Factory, in York boats. These were portaged around rapids. Note the heavy construction and curved bottom. These were modelled after viking longships. Not a job for the weak of mind or body.

York boat - Wikipedia

YouTube has cool videos of annual York boat race near the other end of Nelson River.

I was reading about York Factory last week, and they used Hayes River to avoid the Nelson River rapids, then some unusual small river to the calmer section of Nelson River.

 

[acutename]

I looked at satellite photos, google earth and Bing, starting at the limesone generating station (about a mile from the RAV4) and on downstream. I looked for whitewater. There's a line rapid less than a mile below the generating station (right at Sundance). This one (based on only this one photo, so please take with a huge dose of salt) looks very minor, based on lack of turbidity waves downstream. However, there's a more significant (more whitewater, more hydraulic standing waves) a little short of halfway to the end of the road. From the look of it, you could get around it in an aluminum boat (enter it hard to the northern shore, pass the first rapid line to your right, then pull hard for the center channel), if you saw it coming in time, if you had propulsion, and if you knew what you are doing. In the dark, or with just a paddle, or if you didn't know how to run rapids... would not end well IMHO.

BTW, I have only been whitewater rafting with guides, not on my own, so I'm no expert. I would not like to try the rapid I described above on my own, and that's in an inflatable (vastly better suited for running rapids than an aluminum skiff).

One other thing; both times I was thrown out of the raft (a couple of years apart), my lifejacket and helmet saved me. The technique is to float through the rapid feet first. The bulky life-jacket keeps you higher in the water, so you hit less. I still found it very nerve-wracking, even though I didn't hit many rocks, and even then only lightly, just a few abrasions. It helped that I'm a strong swimmer and was able to pull for shore as soon as I hit a slack eddy. My hunch is that had it not been for my helmet and lifejacket, I would have more likely died (either from hitting rocks, or getting trapped against a rock underwater).

this is the so-called Limestone River near Sundance:

Disclaimer for Hydrometric Information - Water Level and Flow - Environment Canada

looks like when the river is somewhat low, there is dam discharge, so could be flows and waves from the dam discharges (?) not sure I am interpreting the data properly

 

[NJSleuth91]

Quick question...am I missing something? This tweet from RCMP Manitoba on July 25th says "We can now confirm that there have been 2 established & corroborated sightings of Kam McLeod & Bryer Schmegelsky in the Gillam area, prior to the discovery of the burnt out vehicle."

We know about the Split Lake alcohol checkpoint sighting, although it's debatable whether that counts as "the Gillam area." But did we ever hear details about any other confirmed sightings of them in Gillam?

 

[Kubirai]

Kubirai, could you please post the map again in this thread for reference?

I expect we'll be hearing more about confirmed sightings along that route.

New map for Nelson River search, and the BC-AB-SK map. I will make a SK-MB route later.

 

[MistyWaters]

My apologies, I’ve not read all the prior pages. But as soon as I heard the find of the rowboat I was reminded of this report from a few days ago. The RAV4 was found burning near Sundance Creek, which probably flows into the Nelson River. At the time I tried to locate Sundance Creek but I couldn’t find it. Has anyone here located Sundance Creek as I’m curious if the pair might’ve stolen a rowboat from nearby.

“Those officers who remain are returning to some of the areas they have already looked, including the site of a burnt-out Toyota RAV4 found near Sundance Creek, northeast of Gillam, Man., that was used by the fugitives. No reason was given.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/military-pulling-out-of-search-for-bc-fugitives-1.5231687

 

[MistyWaters]

Quick question...am I missing something? This tweet from RCMP Manitoba on July 25th says "We can now confirm that there have been 2 established & corroborated sightings of Kam McLeod & Bryer Schmegelsky in the Gillam area, prior to the discovery of the burnt out vehicle."

We know about the Split Lake alcohol checkpoint sighting, although it's debatable whether that counts as "the Gillam area." But did we ever hear details about any other confirmed sightings of them in Gillam?

I think the “Gillam area” refers to the two sightings in Split Lake, by the band constables and the gas station attendant.

 

[Zella]

My apologies, I’ve not read all the prior pages. But as soon as I heard the find of the rowboat I was reminded of this report from a few days ago. The RAV4 was found burning near Sundance Creek, which probably flows into the Nelson River. At the time I tried to locate Sundance Creek but I couldn’t find it. Has anyone here located Sundance Creek as I’m curious if the pair might’ve stolen a rowboat from nearby.

“Those officers who remain are returning to some of the areas they have already looked, including the site of a burnt-out Toyota RAV4 found near Sundance Creek, northeast of Gillam, Man., that was used by the fugitives. No reason was given.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/military-pulling-out-of-search-for-bc-fugitives-1.5231687

I don't know how accurate it is, but mapcarta is showing it near this Limestone location being discussed in relation to the boat. I think. But my map skills are atrocious. Hopefully someone with local knowledge can confirm. MOO

Sundance Creek

 

[dameagatha]

Quick question...am I missing something? This tweet from RCMP Manitoba on July 25th says "We can now confirm that there have been 2 established & corroborated sightings of Kam McLeod & Bryer ... But did we ever hear details about any other confirmed sightings of them in Gillam?

Yes, the young woman who sold them $20 of gas. She was interviewed on camera. She said they were normal. Kam kept his head down and Bryer asked if alcohol was not allowed in town.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yes, the young woman who sold them $20 of gas. She was interviewed on camera. She said they were normal. Kam kept his head down and Bryer asked if alcohol was not allowed in town.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Never mind then.

 

[scrappinkat]

If you on on a cell phone or iPad turn it sideways and you will see the numbered posts.

I love correct and simple answers!!!! Thank you so much

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't know how accurate it is, but mapcarta is showing it near this Limestone location. I think.

Sundance Creek

Thanks for the link. I noticed on one of the media maps a similar location to this was marked as the RAV4 location, north of Sundance, further towards the end of the road than the Fox Lake Cree Reserve community.

 

[scrappinkat]

I think you could bleed to death in the worst situation:

Arctic Warming Produces Mosquito Swarms Large Enough to Kill Baby ...

https://earthfirstjournal.org/.../arctic-warming-produces-mosquito-swarms-large-enoug...
Sep 17, 2015 - Arctic Warming Produces Mosquito Swarms Large Enough to Kill Baby .... That is why the moose, which 40 years ago used to live only in the ...

Here's how many mosquito bites it would take to drain all of your blood

 

[Zella]

Thanks. Limestone is the location of Limestone Power Generating Station?
Limestone Generating Station - Wikipedia

Sorry, I added a little more detail to my post but not quick enough! Looks like Limestone was being referenced in some of the stuff I read, but I think the boat was found closer to the Keewatinoow station, so further downstream (upstream?). A little closer to the Hudson Bay side rather than back down toward Gillam.

 

[acutename]

New map for Nelson River search, and the BC-AB-SK map. I will make a SK-MB route later.

View attachment 196643 View attachment 196644

this makes the cab driver who reported that some wanted a ride to Bird sound credible

 

[Hatfield]

Interesting to hear of news of them finding the banged up flat bottom aluminum boat. There are only two ways I know of that happening. Either someone didnt have their boat tied up good on the shoreline and it got away from them or someone was in that river and it overturned on some rough water. So it is possible it could have been used at one time by the boys.

I suppose investigators are trying to determine any evidence it could have been the boys in it at one time or not.

I could see where if the boys took that boat they may have not been planning for or even expecting rough water. Just hope searchers can find their remains if they did drown to prove it and let the area finally rest.

"It had gone through some rapids and had been significantly damaged,”

RCMP divers to begin searching river near Gillam after finding rowboat, search for B.C. fugitives continues

 

[Zella]

@MistyWaters, I found it referenced in this article, but I think I hit my max limit because they won't let me see it again. But when I google the phrase "RCMP divers" and "Keewatinoow" it comes up as that article. Hopefully you can see it without issues!

RCMP divers to begin searching river near Gillam after finding rowboat, search for B.C. fugitives continues

 

[Satchie]

My educated guess is the Germans likely had a good deal of wilderness experience to feel comfortable vacationing in such a remote area (the area they hiked out from was total wilderness) and that may have helped them. So I don't know if it would be the same with the two fugitives. Bryer's dad stated they had wilderness experience but we don't know how much we're talking.

It's not just experience, it's also having the right gear. Like proper backpacks, to begin with. Backpacks are expensive, so unless you're into overnight hiking trips or travel, people don't buy them: they use cheap duffle bags or even garbage bags for car or boat camping. And yet you can't trek for any distance unless you can carry everything on your back. You can see in the photos of the Germans, they both had technical, internal frame backpacks.

So it does seem possible the suspects would only ditch the car after they'd found another vehicle (whether land or water-based), and loaded all their stuff into it: they'd have no way to carry even basic necessities (water, food, tarp, rope, sleeping bags).

 

[Kubirai]

I don't know how accurate it is, but mapcarta is showing it near this Limestone location being discussed in relation to the boat. I think.

Sundance Creek

Mapcarta has amazing resolution! You can see the thin blue line of Sundance Creek if you zoom in, south of the road.

Split Lake community is on a separate road, connecting to the main road. That explains the band Constable's comment that he saw the RAV4 leave (the community) after one hour.

 

[kmclaren]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Never mind then.

Here's a video of the interview. Also shows a glimpse of the Nelson River and some of the terrain they were searching.