Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[puppyraiser]

Couple of things- metal containers more than likely for reasons stated previously and also look at the media photo of the container going to the plane. If LE was carrying body bags, I wonder how many people would have been zooming in as much as they could to see if a body bag had any shape or form to it? They kept the state of the remains very private by using those cases.

Maybe two planes were used just in case another horrible tragedy occurred and one crashed with both sets of remains onboard. Thankfully that didn't happen and both sets are at the ME's office. Planes didn't look like they'd hold two cases anyhow but I'm sure there were bigger planes available.

Finally, as someone who completes ABC charts (Antecedent/Behaviour/Consequence) on a daily basis, I can attest to the fact that every single behaviour, or action, a person exhibits has an antecedent leading up to it. Actions may seem random but a person has to look deep enough into the action and all events leading up to it to figure out the why.

 

[ldlager]

Yep. I get that the public wanted this to end sooner, and wanted the suspects caught alive for a variety of reasons. But this was a cross-Canada search involving suspects who were originally regarded as possible victims (in MSM, at least), with a substantial head-start on authorities and who for the most part avoided areas where they were likely to meet checkpoints, etc., and who then ended up in terrain that is notoriously challenging to navigate and difficult to search, all the while having to work with complex logistics and coordination with numerous local, regional and national partners.

It seems to me that the mandate of the search was 1) to prevent further harm and 2) locate the suspects. Both of those were fulfilled. To criticize the RCMP for not doing it quicker, and/or not locating them alive takes little account of the challenges faced. To applaud "civilians" for "doing their job for them" is to acknowledge the job done (invalidating the original critique) and ignores the IMO laudable efforts of the RCMP to recruit the public as helpers in this search, to provide regular updates, and to work to mitigate collateral harm within the communities they were embedded in.

I expect they will regard this as a learning experience, and develop protocols in order to expedite other cases like it -- if there ever are any. But it seems odd to blast the RCMP for not handling better a novel and incredibly complex investigation that was, at the end, successful in preventing further harm and recovering the suspects. Such general critiques, IMO, show a limited grasp of police work and cause-effect logic.

I think it is through pure good fortune that "further harm was prevented". If these 2 individuals were in fact involved in any of the 3 murders, it is fortunate they didn't evidently harm anyone else on their journey of several thousand km's across central Canada. In particular, they had ample opportunity to harm the people that helped them get their vehicle out from being stuck; and to harm the civilian that stopped them driving through the town near Gillam. They probably had other opportunities to kill or harm other people also- yet apparently they did not.

So while further harm did not happen, I think it is a legitimate to question whether the police could have employed different/better measures to capture/find them faster, prior to them driving so far and then disappearing into the bush. Finding them is one thing, but not getting it done sooner is something that I'm sure the police will ask themselves in an effort to improve.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Likely off topic :/

 

[Jessthinkin]

what were they running from when they came across Chynna and Lucas that made them stop at an old, broken-down van?

Perhaps KM’s parents were unsuccessfully trying to reach him via text/phone? Maybe they’d texted him that if they didn’t hear back soon, they were calling the RCMP?

 

[LadyL]

I for sure agree with you about them wanting to steal the van... and then finding out it wouldn’t work. I’m not sure about them being on an illegal mission prior to that, but I do think that if KM had stopped answering calls and texts from his parents after he’d taken their truck, at some point soon, KM’s parents would call the RCMP themselves to be on the lookout for the truck and KM and BS.

For this theory to make sense, KM and BS would’ve had to already have it in their minds that they were going on a one-way deadly adventure, killing along the way, as needed, to get the things they wanted.

I think cuz KM had started ignoring his parents’ calls/texts and they would soon contact RCMP about their “missing” son (and truck)... maybe they (ridiculously) thought the van would escape notice on the road, or maybe their plan was to take that van off-road into a thicket and live in it... that would be a lot more confurtable for them, being super tall and all, than crouching into their own, over-the-can camper shell...

[bbm]

do you have a link that states KM was ignoring his parents' texts/calls? the second sentence I bolded looks like a statement of fact

 

[Canadagurl]

heat of fire and weight of camper at same time is what I think we decided.

That's what we all think is the most probable.
I wonder however... had the boys hit LD going very fast, could that have caused that damage to the roof.. especially with the camper top on there.
I've seen the destruction a deer can cause. Deer weigh usually around 200 to 250 pounds.

I still believe that LD was nothing more then an accident. Would explain why they would have burned the camper. To rid of evidence of the 'hit and run'

None of this makes any sense and the worst part is we will likely never know why any of this had to happen. Very sad on so many levels. So many lives destroyed.

 

[Seattle1]

I believe this question has been asked before but i don't remember seeing answer and long to find

Why was the roof of BS&KM truck bent? Picture can be seen on this link.
Port Alberni mayor says town will 'pull together' after manhunt ends

Thanks in advance for answer if there is one.

KM/BS truck was also equipped with a "cabover camper." These campers rest on top the cab of truck. As the camper is believed to have melted in the truck fire, it makes sense that the cab would have impression. MOO

 

[Cherchri]

It has been a long time since I logged in and I haven't read through all the threads as yet. IMO these young men were killed/mortally wounded riding the rapids. Such tragedy all round. The loved ones of the victims and the killers must be in absolute mental anguish. That two youngsters could perpetrate such hideous acts is beyond the realm of my understanding.

 

[Jessthinkin]

[bbm]

do you have a link that states KM was ignoring his parents' texts/calls? the second sentence I bolded looks like a statement of fact

No, I’ll go back and fix ‘I think’ to IMO... Having raised teenage boys, I can’t imagine letting one drive off with a truck for an adventure at age 19 and not feel the need for some sort of check in schedule via text, etc... A few days without response to my calls/texts, I’d get worried and have to follow up with police...

 

[Kiantra]

KM’s parents trying to reach him via text/phone? Maybe they’d texted him that if they didn’t hear back soon, they were calling the RCMP?

That could be especially true if KM parents had heard about the suspicious deaths on July 15. So they kept texting/calling because they were concerned for their sons safety.

 

[MassGuy]

I think it is through pure good fortune that "further harm was prevented". If these 2 individuals were in fact involved in any of the 3 murders, it is fortunate they didn't evidently harm anyone else on their journey of several thousand km's across central Canada. In particular, they had ample opportunity to harm the people that helped them get their vehicle out from being stuck; and to harm the civilian that stopped them driving through the town near Gillam. They probably had other opportunities to kill or harm other people also- yet apparently they did not.

So while further harm did not happen, I think it is a legitimate to question whether the police could have employed different/better measures to capture/find them faster, prior to them driving so far and then disappearing into the bush. Finding them is one thing, but not getting it done sooner is something that I'm sure the police will ask themselves in an effort to improve.

These guys had a huge head start, and it took time to identify them as perpetrators, and not victims.

You can’t find someone, unless you are looking for them in the first place.

After they were identified, law enforcement was at a huge disadvantage.

Look at the Dannemora prison escape for instance.

That one involved far more resources, a cost of $23 million, a smaller search area, and dozens of law enforcement agencies.

It still took 3 weeks to bring it to a conclusion.

The search area in this particular case, was many times larger than that.

So much larger that it’s really not even comparable.

I can’t find fault with the search itself.

 

[sandbar]

I believe this question has been asked before but i don't remember seeing answer and long to find

Why was the roof of BS&KM truck bent? Picture can be seen on this link.
Port Alberni mayor says town will 'pull together' after manhunt ends

Thanks in advance for answer if there is one.

and where is the camper part?

 

[puppyraiser]

and where is the camper part?

Media stated the camper had melted during the fire. There are photos of tarps on the ground with several items on top which may have been inside the camper.

 

[sandbar]

wow, thanks, i feel like i've been consuming everything, and i didn't see that...

 

[Herat]

I recently saw use of a metal box and/or crate to carry remains for the first time in July. Reporters live tweeting/filming were also unaware until later the metal box contained human remains of Savannah Spurlock, TN. I agree that this must be to collect and preserve evidence with the body.

Chad K. Mills‏Verified account @ChadKMills
FBI and others just walked toward the front of the scene carrying a long metal crate, which it seems they’re preparing to load into a truck.

9:03 PM - 10 Jul 2019 pt

The metal,boxes are very important to keep body fluids or odors away from those transporting bodies, especially if there is significant decomposition. They have a very heavy seal on them and are very sturdy.

This, alone, makes me think the deaths occurred some time ago, not within the last couple of days

 

[ldlager]

MAP/MATH HELP NEEDED:

The military captured 11,000 sq miles of imagery (~28000 sq kms) that's approx the size of Haiti
"Countries Compared by Geography > Land area > Sq. km. International Statistics at NationMaster.com", Food and Agriculture Organisation, electronic files and web site. Aggregates compiled by NationMaster. Retrieved from Countries Compared by Geography > Land area > Sq. km. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

@otto, can you maybe please draw an 11,000 sq mile box on your beautiful map? I recognize that 11000 square miles can be configured on myriad ways, but I can't fathom what that looks like...

I believe they claimed it was 11,000 sq km, not miles

 

[mmsshh]

But they already had a vehicle with a camper that was apparently working (at least at that time) Why would they need/want an older model van?

As I speculated in my original post, they had some dangerous evidance in their vehicle that they needed to get rid of. That probably explains why they torched their own vehicle once they stole Dyck's RAV4.

 

[Cherchri]

Canadian killer fugitives' trail of clues: Billowing smoke, sardine cans, sleeping bag helped end manhunt | Fox News
Not sure if anyone/everyone read this article. This extract is interesting:
"On July 24, RCMP announced that Schmegelsky and McLeod were suspects in the three murders after the RAV4 was found in flames near Gillam by local residents Billy and Tamara Beardy.

‘(There was) cans of sardines, small propane bottles, forks, orange peels, loose change and partially eaten pork chops’, Tamara Beardy told The Globe and Mail.

Clint Sawchuk, who owns Nelson River Adventures, told CBC he spotted what he believed to be a sleeping bag in the willows near the river which he later reported to police.

RCMP would later investigate the area and ultimately locate a damaged boat and the two teens’ bodies nearby, he claimed".

 

[mmsshh]

what were they running from when they came across Chynna and Lucas that made them stop at an old, broken-down van?

This is the thing we will probably never find out. My guess is that they had done something illegal (drugs, guns, anything) and they needed to torch their vehicle to destroy the evidance of what they had done.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

What are the unresolved questions that we'd most like to see answered at the end of the investigation? Who owned the camper truck they were driving? Did they buy it or was on loan for someone? Did they ever follow up on their stated plan to look for work, or was that just a story for the folks back home? What were they doing between the murders of CD and LF and the subsequent murder of LD? Maybe some of this has been discussed and I just missed it.