Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[Strangeworld]

An Australian man and his American girlfriend have died in suspicious circumstances in Canada, sparking fears they may have been murdered.

Lucas Fowler is reported to be the son of senior NSW police officer, Inspector Stephen Fowler. He was found dead alongside his girlfriend, North Carolina woman Chynna Deese, in British Columbia earlier this week sparking fears of foul play.

Chynna’s sister Kennedy Deese wrote they pair were “homicide victims along a remote stretch of highway in Canada while on a road trip.”

An older style blue mini-van the pair was believed to have been travelling was found at the scene.

Canadian police are looking for anyone who saw the vehicle or offered assistance. They’re also appealing for anyone that travelled the stretch of highway around the time of the discovery to come forward, according to a RCMP media release.

Australian man found dead in Canada


Media, Maps & Timeline thread

Initial thread on suspects McLeod and Schmegelsky (now closed)

The Rules (aka Terms of Service aka TOS)


Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3
Thread #4
Thread #5
Thread #6
Thread #7
Thread #8
Thread #9
Thread #10
Thread #11
Thread #12
Thread #13
Thread #14
Thread #15 - Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15
Thread #16 - Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16
Thread #17 - Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

 

[Lalalacasbah]

My eyes are too bad to read the writing on that bottle, so I'm glad some folks could make it out.

I did have a hunch, though, that it was some sort of vodka because my impression of that image is Bryer was really hamming up his Slavic heritage. What that has to do with the ginger ale also there, I will never know. LOL

I think Bryer must have been in some constant state of snacking. I've yet to see a pic of him by himself without munchies and soda lying around. Even that nice pic of him in the suit--the full picture has 2 Coke cans and a coffee mug on the table in front of him.

Maybe he liked vodka and ginger? Good observation about the food. He probably did go nuts in hiding if they didn't get to eat!

I think these two were probably very immature and naive even though they thought they were smart. I think their plan was probably detail orientated and they were prepared in a sense possibly BUT with neither of them having any real world/practical experience - that's what messed them up I think. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Great points.

I think it's possible FB made their accounts private or blocked them from view but to delete them?

That doesn't seem right...

FB is a private company, users don’t pay for the service. Somewhere buried within their Terms and Conditions for sure they have the right to boot accounts without explanation. Accused dangerous fugitives on the run would surely fit the criteria IMO. I wonder how many 100s or 1000s of other FB users were attempting to contact them, hoping to become part of the “reality show”?

OT - I feeling especially critical of FB right now, considering the recent posting of the video of the 14 year old BC boy as he was dying of a drug overdose, while others were apparently cackling about his agony.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I kinda doubt there will be much in terms of markers (and for sure no "likenesses") for K&B: for the families to not have to replace them because of vandalized or theft; and the cemetary for much the same reasons. And I wonder if LE has any say in that. Though as was discussed a few threads back, K&B were most likely cremated.

Yes I think that was the consensus. I don't even think tombstones are done anymore? I feel like it's a bad omen to be typing this lol, I'm knocking on wood now!

 

[NJSleuth91]

I have no idea, but someone deleted the profiles. People on here are saying Facebook did but I don't think they would just go and do that. There have been much higher profile cases and their FB accounts were still up. I'm trying to find out if they legally can.

I've only found this so far but it's in the USA not Canada. Article says what Facebook gives police/courts when asked. Different then outright deleting though.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jwherrman/how-cops-see-your-facebook-account

Was it even deleted or just deactivated? Those are two different things.

I know the archive I saw was from July 24th or 25th, so if it was deleted, it was after they were in the woods. And they would not have had internet access.

I'm going out on a limb here - maybe it's for their family. Maybe that was part of their last will and testament was to have that photo of them at their funeral of even buried with them. Don't think people put photos on tombstones anymore if buried but I'm outta that loop.

I don't think it was part of their will and testament but I think maybe it was intended as something to remember them by. Still bizarre though.

 

[Zella]

Maybe he liked vodka and ginger? Good observation about the food. He probably did go nuts in hiding if they didn't get to eat!

I think these two were probably very immature and naive even though they thought they were smart. I think their plan was probably detail orientated and they were prepared in a sense possibly BUT with neither of them having any real world/practical experience - that's what messed them up I think. JMO

Yeah even though he and Kam were both pretty skinny, I've seen teen boys their age with their builds put away ungodly amounts of food. I doubt they were any different. I'm sure lack of food was just another layer of madness once they hit the Manitoba woods, beyond the bugs, the panic, and the isolation.

And I think you're right about their levels of preparation. It sounds like they'd been camping out for a couple of years. I'm sure they could probably handle a weekend or a few days on Vancouver Island with ample supplies and in their minds that made them survivalists, but that is still very different from the situation and location they ended up in.

MOO

 

[Zella]

OT - I feeling especially critical of FB right now, considering the recent posting of the video of the 14 year old BC boy as he was dying of a drug overdose, while others were apparently cackling about his agony.

SBM I saw that while I was digging around some Canadian newspapers about this case. That was so sad and horrifying!

My impression with this case was that Bryer and Kam both had their FB accounts shut down by Facebook, but that's just MOO. I have no clue one way or the other!

 

[NJSleuth91]

It’s not so much there’s potentially a battle for information. But a court order to release information must be served from within the same country as the company is domiciled. So a Canadian court order is meaningless to FB, as a US court order must be obtained from a US judge. So it always takes longer for due process to take place from Canada because FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc are not Canadian companies, even though they provide service to Canadians.

I’m not familiar with Whatsapp but in general JMO the RCMP would obtain all data involving potential communication directly from the source (app) to ensure nothing was deleted. 3 months, 6 months, how long might they look back? No idea. But if anything is found of interest, then a second round of court orders are required to obtain information associated to the specific user’s identity. After the IP or email address of the user is known, once again another court order to obtain additional information directly from the service provider to further assist in IDing the user. I can understand how this must become a lengthy and tedious process.

Thanks. I think this is probably a very complicated aspect of law...may need to do some reading on it.

My eyes are too bad to read the writing on that bottle, so I'm glad some folks could make it out.

I did have a hunch, though, that it was some sort of vodka because my impression of that image is Bryer was really hamming up his Slavic heritage. What that has to do with the ginger ale also there, I will never know. LOL

I think Bryer must have been in some constant state of snacking. I've yet to see a pic of him by himself without munchies and soda lying around. Even that nice pic of him in the suit--the full picture has 2 Coke cans and a coffee mug on the table in front of him.

The ginger ale is probably just a mixer.

Yeah I noticed that too about the soda cans everywhere. Kind of interesting because of how thin he was, but I guess when you're that tall you can get away with eating a lot.

That is what I think. I think there was an interaction prior and it wasn't totally random or stumbling upon. I think they might've even talked and something went squirrely.

If Bryer was a hot head, all it might've taken was one wrong comment by the couple and that was it. Many crimes happen that way - over one comment and the killer stews over it for sometimes hours, days or years (think Douglas Garland)... or so I've been told by someone with background in criminal psychology who worked at a pen. MOO

This is one of my theories too. I've said before, Bryer kind of reminds me of a more angry version of Ziggy Sobotka from The Wire.

I guess maybe the same old reason... "the middle class kid with a promising future and popular with friends from a great family with lots of money" turn out to be murderers - not wired right, maybe past abuse, under the influence of drugs/alcohol, homicidal tendencies, addiction to *advertiser censored*/gaming/violence (pick your poison!) or maybe a psychopath/sociopath his whole life that nobody realized.

I'm not trying to being cheeky, hopefully my comment doesn't come off that way. It just seems these killers are never the people we expect. Never really know what's going on in someone's head.

Or just our good old friend mental illness! Spoiler alert...it's usually that.

Honestly I feel like these killers are usually exactly the people we expect, and that's what makes it so sad. People see it coming for years and yet nothing, or not enough, is done. There may not have been as many signs for Kam, but for Bryer there were for at least 7 years beforehand. Since they were inseparable best friends, you would imagine they shared everything. It really isn't that much of a mystery when you think about it.

FB is a private company, users don’t pay for the service. Somewhere buried within their Terms and Conditions for sure they have the right to boot accounts without explanation. Accused dangerous fugitives on the run would surely fit the criteria IMO. I wonder how many 100s or 1000s of other FB users were attempting to contact them, hoping to become part of the “reality show”?

OT - I feeling especially critical of FB right now, considering the recent posting of the video of the 14 year old BC boy as he was dying of a drug overdose, while others were apparently cackling about his agony.

Facebook has gotten into trouble a lot recently for this stuff. I think they're at least making an attempt to crack down. Of course, they continually fail at it for a variety of reasons which we won't get into. The truth is they can get rid of accounts whenever they feel like it and they don't need to give much of a reason.

Yeah any description I would write about that overdose case would have to contain a string of expletives, so I'm not going to write it here. Let's just say it was absolutely disgusting and that's a huge understatement.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm so foggy about some info, was any of Bryer's Nazi stuff on his FB? Did Kam have anything offensive on his?

Facebook can disable an account if people post something offensive it seems, maybe that's what happened? I'm not sure FB would disable for fugitives but maybe, I'm still trying to find out. They might've disabled if someone complained about offensive material.



Disabled Accounts | Facebook Help Center | Facebook

 

[LadyL]

I have no idea, but someone deleted the profiles. People on here are saying Facebook did but I don't think they would just go and do that. There have been much higher profile cases and their FB accounts were still up. I'm trying to find out if they legally can.

I've only found this so far but it's in the USA not Canada. Article says what Facebook gives police/courts when asked. Different then outright deleting though.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jwherrman/how-cops-see-your-facebook-account

yes they legally can - they own your profile
and yes, they do it all the time in crime cases

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Or just our good old friend mental illness! Spoiler alert...it's usually that.

That can be a gray area.

There's folks in mental institutions who are criminally insane if they perform violent acts and are diagnosed mentally ill (Vinci Li for example).

There's folks in prisons who perform violent acts who aren't mentally ill but psychopaths/sociopaths (Paul Bernardo types).

They aren't going to put these two types of offenders in the same prisons. I guess to some, it ALL seems like mental illness and there is some crossover, but I think the law, criminal experts and parole boards handle them differently.

I'm not sure where I stand on Bryer and Kam - I actually think one of them suffered from mental illness and the other was the psychopath/sociopath (more the leader with brains who encouraged the more vulnerable hot head partner, even though I think they supported each other in ideas). Totally JMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

yes they legally can - they own your profile
and yes, they do it all the time in crime cases

They have done it for crime cases? In Canada? I don't know why that surprises me. I think after being on WS and researching some high profile cases I hadn't noticed any FB profiles taken down. Maybe the ones that are more "international news" get shut down? Interesting, did not know this.

 

[NJSleuth91]

That can be a gray area.

There's folks in mental institutions who are criminally insane if they perform violent acts and are diagnosed mentally ill (Vinci Li for example).

There's folks in prisons who perform violent acts who aren't mentally ill but psychopaths/sociopaths (Paul Bernardo types).

They aren't going to put these two types of offenders in the same prisons. I guess to some, it ALL seems like mental illness and there is some crossover, but I think the law handles them different.

I'm not sure where I stand on Bryer and Kam - I actually think one of them suffered from mental illness and the other was the psychopath/sociopath (leader who manipulated the more vulnerable partner). Totally JMO

Most spree killers have mental illness, and most of them aren't sociopaths. Most of them also go to prison if they survive. There's a difference between having a mental illness and being criminally insane. Criminal insanity has a very specific definition where basically it's like, you were psychotic and didn't know the difference between right and wrong. Like Andrea Yates. However, having an untreated mental illness definitely can increase the chance of committing a violent act, and you'd be hard pressed to find a spree killer who didn't have any mental illnesses. Usually they have severe depression, anxiety, ADHD, social difficulties, learning disabilities, sometimes psychosis, sometimes they're on the autism spectrum...these guys tend to have a pretty similar profile.

I don't think either of them were sociopaths, for a variety of reasons. But the biggest one is that they stayed together until the end. If one of them was a sociopath, I would expect them to have thrown the other one under the bus and tried to pin everything on them. Sociopaths also usually have a strong self-preservation instinct and are generally not suicidal, and they also would not be afraid of prison (in fact, many of them enjoy prison). I think Kam and Bryer probably had a lot of the same problems. One of them was more openly crazy and the other one was more hidden, but I bet when it was just the two of them together, they were like two peas in a pod, and that's why they had this uncommonly strong bond.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm not sure FB would've shut down K&B's account for being fugitives, if FB did it might've been for something offensive posted (by the public even in comments and maybe not even by B&K if someone reported it).

In many cases it seems LE finds the profiles usually beneficial. Here is an example of a US fugitive who got 15K likes:

"Regardless of the number of “Likes” this post receives, we will continue to utilize the resources we have available to us to locate both suspects and take them into custody,” wrote Police Lt. Bart Barown."

Fugitive believed to be in New York gets 15K Facebook likes, but hasn’t surrendered as promised

 

[NJSleuth91]

I'm not sure FB would've shut down K&B's account for being fugitives, if FB did it might've been for something offensive posted (by the public even in comments and maybe not even by B&K if someone reported it).

In many cases it seems LE finds the profiles usually beneficial. Here is an example of a US fugitive who got 15K likes:

"Regardless of the number of “Likes” this post receives, we will continue to utilize the resources we have available to us to locate both suspects and take them into custody,” wrote Police Lt. Bart Barown."

Fugitive believed to be in New York gets 15K Facebook likes, but hasn’t surrendered as promised

So who do you think took their accounts down? Because they were in the middle of nowhere.

 

[MistyWaters]

That can be a gray area.

There's folks in mental institutions who are criminally insane if they perform violent acts and are diagnosed mentally ill (Vinci Li for example).

There's folks in prisons who perform violent acts who aren't mentally ill but psychopaths/sociopaths (Paul Bernardo types).

They aren't going to put these two types of offenders in the same prisons. I guess to some, it ALL seems like mental illness and there is some crossover, but I think the law handles them different.

I'm not sure where I stand on Bryer and Kam - I actually think one of them suffered from mental illness and the other was the psychopath/sociopath (leader who manipulated the more vulnerable partner). Totally JMO

Yes in Canada a defendant can be found Guilty but Not Criminally Responsible (NCR) supported by past history of a mental disorder if -

• the mental disorder made it impossible for him/her to understand the nature and quality of what they did; OR
• the mental disorder made it impossible for them to understand that what they did was morally wrong (not just legally wrong). What does NCR mean? | LawFacts

But fleeing a crime scene is always used by the Crown to prove the accused knew murder was wrong. Fleeing across Canada so quickly, I can think of no other reason to do that other than to avoid arrest. It’s impossible they both had a psychotic breakdown at the same time and thought they were battling ghouls or ninjas or whatever else might jump out of the computer screen at them.

 

[missy1974]

So the talk about FB got me looking, I don't think it requires a subpoena in some cases, like emergencies... for example, maybe 2 fugitives on the run that are wanted for murder and LE is looking for any sort of location data? JMO

Safety Center

International Legal Process Requirements
We disclose account records solely in accordance with our terms of service and applicable law. A Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty request or letter rogatory may be required to compel the disclosure of the contents of an account. Further information can be found here.


Emergency Requests
In responding to a matter involving imminent harm to a child or risk of death or serious physical injury to any person and requiring disclosure of information without delay, a law enforcement official may submit a request through the Law Enforcement Online Request System. Note: We will not review or respond to requests submitted by non-law enforcement officials. Users aware of an emergency situation should immediately and directly contact local law enforcement officials.



And this was published by FB, and shows numbers of requests, what kind of requests and the countries, thought it was interesting.

Facebook Transparency Report | Gov Data Requests

ETA: link to info about mutual legal assistance requests(didn't look to see if US is part of this, but I assume so?) Mutual Legal Assistance Requests Made by Canada

 

[missy1974]

So who do you think took their accounts down? Because they were in the middle of nowhere.

the families?

 

[NJSleuth91]

It’s impossible they both had a psychotic breakdown at the same time and thought they were battling ghouls or ninjas or whatever else could jump out of the computer screen at them.

SBM

I mean technically it's possible. There's even a name for it -- folie a deux. However, I don't think that's what happened here.

 

[NJSleuth91]

the families?

How would they get the passwords? Even if you set a legacy contact I think you have to prove the person is dead before Facebook hands over the account, like send them a picture of the death certificate or something.