Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #21

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Three Canadian sources:

Authorities eventually found the teens’ bodies in dense brush alongside two rifles and a cellphone used to record six videos.

Canada manhunt suspects made videos confessing to murders but no motive found

Star Vancouver reported today that a “cell phone found with bodies of suspects had a final video.”

BC teen suspects may have recorded final message on cell phone found with their bodies

The RCMP declined to comment on the existence of a video but a source confirmed that 30 seconds of the video, left on a cellphone that was found with the bodies, was shared with the suspects’ family members.

B.C. murder suspects recorded ‘last will and testament’ on phone, family member says

From the interview with AS Sept 18.

He says RCMP have shown him a video — described as a last will and testament — that Bryer recorded on a cellphone before dying by suicide.

‘This is all preventable’: Father of B.C. murder suspect questions RCMP role in manhunt
 
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It was Bryer's body movements more than his eyes/face that gave me a nervous/pensive /uncertain impression of him...
I looked at the video again, and I just don't see it. I also don't see Kam looking sly or giving me any creepy vibe. I think in general if there was no indication they were suspects/guilty of anything they looked like two teens.
 
I looked at the video again, and I just don't see it. I also don't see Kam looking sly or giving me any creepy vibe. I think in general if there was no indication they were suspects/guilty of anything they looked like two teens.
Yes, they definitely looked like two teens!
 
The thing that gets me though is I looked at the pictures of Kam that were shown to the public and I honestly see genuine smiles. I don't see any deadness in his eyes. Even in the surveillance videos, I don't see deadness.

If anything I see no emotion and blank expressions in most of the photos of Bryer.

This quote from Kam's father always stayed with me.

For some reason, I believed that Kam felt sorry for Bryer, tolerated him, as one tends to do with friends that go back as far as primary school.

After the RCMP report released -- I realize they are both cold blooded killers, that showed no remorse.

In a statement obtained from Kam McLeod’s father by CTV News Vancouver Island on Wednesday, the family says they are struggling.

[...]

"I’m sitting at home worrying about my son," he writes. "Relentless media hounding us for information that we don’t have."

McLeod says what the family does know is that their son is kind, considerate and a caring young man who has always been concerned about other people’s feelings. bbm

"As we are trapped in our homes due to media people, we try to wrap our heads around what is happening," he writes. "[We] hope that Kam will come home to us safely so we can all get to the bottom of this story."


'I'm sitting at home worrying about my son': B.C. homicide suspect's father
 
If only the world had more people like Ed Grennan. What a beautiful story.

He’s a trucker who travels down the Alaska Highway each week from Whitehorse to Fort Nelson then back, and on each trip he’d pass the spot where Chynna and Lucas were killed.

It bothered him to see no trace of the people who died there. He thought of his daughter, gone 20 years now. He thought of Chynna and Lucas and their family. He couldn’t let the spot sit empty.

One morning he put a flower arrangement in the 18-wheeler and started a makeshift memorial. Each time he’d pass, he’d bring something to add. A local television station did a story on him, and soon he connected with Chynna’s family and Lucas’s family and started personalizing it. He put sunflowers, her favorite flower, on top of a stake that holds the Australian flag. The family that owns the ranch where Lucas worked dropped off his old work boots. Now, passers-by bring things, mostly flowers, but sometimes handwritten notes and signs.

EG.JPG

Before one of his runs, he sent Sheila a message to tell her he was leaving Fort Nelson. He said he’d let her know when he made it to the memorial in four or five hours. “I’ll be saying a prayer,” he said. “And if you say a prayer then, too, then we’ll be praying for her at the same time.”

“It just looks so beautiful, in every photo,” Sheila Deese tells me, flipping through the pictures from Grennan. It’s a beautiful place for a memorial, Grennan figures.

He contacted the Fort Nelson First Nation, the native people who’ve inhabited the land for thousands of years and told them he hoped the memorial would heal the “badness in the land,” brought on by the killers.

He worries about the bison trampling it, or the bears eating some of it. But for now, it remains undisturbed.

People come from hundreds of miles away just to visit. Others slam on the brakes after passing it. One day recently, Grennan parked and watched another trucker pull onto the shoulder and walk toward it.

The trucker stared down at the photos of Chynna and Lucas, flanked by the Australian flag and the U.S. flag and the boots. Grennan, whose daughter would be in her early 40s by now, kept watching the man, until he heard a sound. There in the quiet of northern British Columbia on the eve of autumn, the season when the tourists leave and nights grow long, the other trucker started humming “Amazing Grace,” before breaking down into tears, surrounded by mountains and clovers and wildflowers.

The world knows Chynna Deese because of how she died. Now her family wants to make sure we remember how she lived.
 
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I thought so too, Kam a psychopath and Bryer maybe a sociopath.

I have heard some bone chilling stories from a close family member who worked at maximum penitentiaries interviewing/case working with sex offenders and dangerous offenders/violent killers as well.

I don't know how people do some jobs! PTSD factors in for many I think after being exposed to gruesome crime details over a career. Kudos to those workers, LE and first responders. Scary and brave work.

I completely agree. It's definitely not something I could do everyday.
 
The thing that gets me though is I looked at the pictures of Kam that were shown to the public and I honestly see genuine smiles. I don't see any deadness in his eyes. Even in the surveillance videos, I don't see deadness.

If anything I see no emotion and blank expressions in most of the photos of Bryer.

It's really impossible to read anyone from a photograph or even surveillance video. Hence, the necessity of face to face interviews. Also, what caused them to commit the horrific, violent and cold-blooded murders? Temporary insanity? Really doubtful. One of the first things I recall reading about the murders of the young couple was that they were murdered execution-style. Clearly, a method that would cause a great deal of suffering, which would be very pleasurable to a psychopath. A full-blown psychopath can also project an honest and trustworthy persona while lying through their teeth. A case in point would be Ted Bundy, who could talk anyone into trusting him.
 
From this source: https://www.healthyplace.com/person...psychopath-vs-sociopath-what-s-the-difference

Finally, the presentation of one with psychopathy or sociopathy differs. According to Kelly McAleer, Psy.D,

"The psychopath is callous, yet charming. He or she will con and manipulate others with charisma and intimidation and can effectively mimic feelings to present as "normal" to society. The psychopath is organized in their criminal thinking and behavior, and can maintain good emotional and physical control, displaying little to no emotional or autonomic arousal, even under situations that most would find threatening or horrifying. The psychopath is keenly aware that what he or she is doing is wrong, but does not care.

"Conversely, the sociopath is less organized in his or her demeanor; he or she might be nervous, easily agitated, and quick to display anger. A sociopath is more likely to spontaneously act out in inappropriate ways without thinking through the consequences. Compared to the psychopath, the sociopath will not be able to move through society committing callous crimes as easily, as they can form attachments and often have 'normal temperaments.' . . ."
 
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It's really impossible to read anyone from a photograph or even surveillance video. Hence, the necessity of face to face interviews. Also, what caused them to commit the horrific, violent and cold-blooded murders? Temporary insanity? Really doubtful. One of the first things I recall reading about the murders of the young couple was that they were murdered execution-style. Clearly, a method that would cause a great deal of suffering, which would be very pleasurable to a psychopath. A full-blown psychopath can also project an honest and trustworthy persona while lying through their teeth. A case in point would be Ted Bundy, who could talk anyone into trusting him.
Like Bundy, like Gribble, that Craigs list bloke, a psychopaths life depends on mirroring and mimicry. They need to get a job, they need to get victims to relax, they need to charm assistance and money and love, cars, train tickets, and food and secrets out of people and that cant be done with a face like an ogre. It can't be done arguing and with tantrums, generally, it has to be done by persuasion.

They have to look and sound and move exactly like a person that is to be trusted and believed. This is where mimicry is a key component. They pick this up from watching people all the time, how this is done, exactly when to shrug or smile, or frown.

They have to play normal until it's second nature. It isn't an option, in a world of non psychopaths, for a psychopath. It requires constant vigilance and perpetual watching and guarding, all up it's a tiring kind of existence, but it has it's payoff, apparently.

Mirroring. An important element. Reflecting back to the target what the target is hoping and expecting to see because that's what the target would do. So , the psychopath does exactly that.

I was struck by one of Kam's neighbors, who said, I am paraphrasing, I cant recall it all, that Kam was so nice, he made him feel at home and important, just a delight etc. ( is this your normal teenage male? ) That was classic mirroring.
 
Like Bundy, like Gribble, that Craigs list bloke, a psychopaths life depends on mirroring and mimicry. They need to get a job, they need to get victims to relax, they need to charm assistance and money and love, cars, train tickets, and food and secrets out of people and that cant be done with a face like an ogre. It can't be done arguing and with tantrums, generally, it has to be done by persuasion.

They have to look and sound and move exactly like a person that is to be trusted and believed. This is where mimicry is a key component. They pick this up from watching people all the time, how this is done, exactly when to shrug or smile, or frown.

They have to play normal until it's second nature. It isn't an option, in a world of non psychopaths, for a psychopath. It requires constant vigilance and perpetual watching and guarding, all up it's a tiring kind of existence, but it has it's payoff, apparently.

Mirroring. An important element. Reflecting back to the target what the target is hoping and expecting to see because that's what the target would do. So , the psychopath does exactly that.

I was struck by one of Kam's neighbors, who said, I am paraphrasing, I cant recall it all, that Kam was so nice, he made him feel at home and important, just a delight etc. ( is this your normal teenage male? ) That was classic mirroring.

Honestly, it's not often that I haven't scrolled and rolled your posts Trooper (far too graphic for me) but I do agree this time.

When I met my husband he warned me his 30 year old brother was a psychopath. No internet back then but I was aware. I'd heard the family stories (interesting arson was a large part of why he was imprisoned for years.)

My husband's parents were defensively on their son's side while the siblings wanted nothing to do with him. (He had turned and burned each of them at some point in life. They were done with him.)

If psychopathy is the case, I'm not in any way suggesting there is fault on any parent for not knowing this was manifesting especially at such a young age. I do have empathy for their loss too.

I just hope we can learn from this and hopefully prevent it from happening again. If we know what to look for maybe we can avoid it happening again.

JMO
 
Honestly, it's not often that I haven't scrolled and rolled your posts Trooper (far too graphic for me) but I do agree this time.

When I met my husband he warned me his 30 year old brother was a psychopath. No internet back then but I was aware. I'd heard the family stories (interesting arson was a large part of why he was imprisoned for years.)

My husband's parents were defensively on their son's side while the siblings wanted nothing to do with him. (He had turned and burned each of them at some point in life. They were done with him.)

If psychopathy is the case, I'm not in any way suggesting there is fault on any parent for not knowing this was manifesting especially at such a young age. I do have empathy for their loss too.

I just hope we can learn from this and hopefully prevent it from happening again. If we know what to look for maybe we can avoid it happening again.

JMO
oh that's ok, this is the first post of yours that I've read, … I recognize the siblings situation there, and I would put a crisp $100 down on the parents being completely oblivious to the sons psychopathy. He would be telling the parents what they want reflected back to them. No point doing that with the brothers and sisters, because I bet they don't hold purse strings.. .

I meant to add , as well.. Bryer's commiserating with his dad about he, Bryer being bullied, just like dad is! is another classic mirroring tactic. AS is mollified, feels a union with another sufferer, they can talk all day about endless bulling and so forth. It 's what the chosen audience wants to hear.

Another thing, you mentioned an interesting arson, quite a bonfire, if prison followed, this is one of the odd things about psychopaths.. not all people who light fires are psychopaths, but it is a big part of a psychopaths life, its a cleansing thing, a shining light thing. .. I don't understand it all but the literature is firm about it.
 
and one more thing, if I may, I wondertoo, (( she'll probably scroll right over it !! ) is ….
was the arson utterly incomprehensible, in the context of foreseeable detection of it being the brother and not accomplishing much , if anything at all , except destruction? That is, was there a strong element of gobsmacking stupidity in it ??
 
This
That has been my theory all along. One of my son's friends, back in high school, became obsessed with Grand Theft Auto video game. His mom complained that it was all he did or even wanted to do. It was weird how he got so totally obsessed with it.

He stopped playing sports and let his grades slip and only saw friends who would come and play games with him. She was a single mom who couldn't really control the situation because she had to work and couldn't control what he did much of the time.

By the time he was 20, he had already been in 2 high speed pursuits by police. He was an idiot the way he allowed that fantasy turn into reality and wreck his life. He lost his job and his license was revoked and he went to jail. And he was proud of the pursuits---like it was a cool thing.

And he couldn't seem to understand it was not a game---it was like he stepped into a fantasy where he was living out the 'game' in the real world. His 2nd pursuit was on the tv news, in real time, and he was so thrilled to know that. It was a real accomplishment, in his crazy mind.

I know that it is not the same as a murder spree. But it is similar in my mind, in that the Canadian duo seemed to have gone off the deep end and lived their 'survivor' mission as if it was a video game world.
This theory makes sense to me also. And my good friend, who knew nothing about this case until I engaged her in discussion about it one day, was bewildered with it ... at first. Once I added in K&B were avid gamers, she immediately put out the possibility they were living out a game as she was very familiar with how violent some of them are.
 
I read it in the National Post: B.C. teen killers hatched plan to hijack a boat and escape to Africa. It ended in suicide instead

"In an interview Friday afternoon, Al Schmegelsky’s lawyer, Sarah Leamon, said her client sat down with two RCMP officers before the information was made public. He had the chance to ask questions of the two officers, and heard details about how his son was shot in the back of the head by Kam McLeod in the remote Manitoba wilderness."
Wow. So this is where the exact details of the murder-suicide came from. I wasn’t sure if information came out elsewhere. I did expect this shooting scenario the most likely tho.
 
Like Bundy, like Gribble, that Craigs list bloke, a psychopaths life depends on mirroring and mimicry. They need to get a job, they need to get victims to relax, they need to charm assistance and money and love, cars, train tickets, and food and secrets out of people and that cant be done with a face like an ogre. It can't be done arguing and with tantrums, generally, it has to be done by persuasion.

They have to look and sound and move exactly like a person that is to be trusted and believed. This is where mimicry is a key component. They pick this up from watching people all the time, how this is done, exactly when to shrug or smile, or frown.

They have to play normal until it's second nature. It isn't an option, in a world of non psychopaths, for a psychopath. It requires constant vigilance and perpetual watching and guarding, all up it's a tiring kind of existence, but it has it's payoff, apparently.

Mirroring. An important element. Reflecting back to the target what the target is hoping and expecting to see because that's what the target would do. So , the psychopath does exactly that.

I was struck by one of Kam's neighbors, who said, I am paraphrasing, I cant recall it all, that Kam was so nice, he made him feel at home and important, just a delight etc. ( is this your normal teenage male? ) That was classic mirroring.

JMO, most enjoy the game of fooling and manipulating others. They see others as inferior, less than human, so some enjoy toying with and controlling, playing games, seeing how far they can go. It's a power game, they get a high from it. Listen to BTK talk about his crimes sometimes.

BTK killer Dennis Rader tells all in unheard interview for doc: 'It's a demon that's within me'

Keep in mind, in this interview Rader is also pretending to feel bad about what he had done. He doesn't, that's just more manipulation.

Like Rader, Kam and Bryer were attention-seekers. They had big egos they wanted to feed. They wanted notoriety and for people to fear them.

When Hatteberg asked Rader if he had any feelings torward his victims, he quickly responded, “Yes, I do.”

“I mean, I have a lot of feelings for them,” he said. “I guess it’s more of an achievement for this object in the hunt. Or sort of more of a high, I guess.”

The only feelings he has for his victims is the satisfaction and "high" they gave him in killing them. JMO, that's how K&B felt, too. Their victims were just things that gave them a thrill and got them noticed, nothing more.
 
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