Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[NJSleuth91]

Well we don’t know if they did or did not lift anything.

Right. We don't know. But so far there's zero evidence that they did. So it can't be asserted that this is a "shoplifting video" which shows their M.O. for shoplifting.

Again...by that logic I could say they killed 13 people. Technically since nobody was following them at every moment they were alive, we can't say for sure that they didn't!

We were told in MSM that they purchased at this store but never learned what they bought or if they stole anything because it was never confirmed. So to say the police “don't seem to think they did” is reaching because they never confirmed their activity (at this store specifically) that took place. They may have decided to exclude the items purchased (and possibly stolen too) because it would cause speculation or they were unable to recover items associated to the store.

I guess because this report isn’t typical for investigations (being relayed to the public) they don’t have to be accountable for what is included/excluded in regards to existing public knowledge and I guess accuracy won’t have a place either. IMO.

I think this was their activity at the store that was in the report, actually. It's hard to tell because if you look up "Meadow Lake Co-op" online you get like five different locations of different types of stores, but one of them is "Meadow Lake Co-op Service Centre" and on Google Maps, it looks like it has a gas station attached. And the report mentioned the surveillance footage from this store being what first confirmed they were still alive, which is consistent with MSM reports about the footage we have seen.

In any case this store had like 1080p video footage, most likely also from additional cameras besides the one we've seen (because why have such high-quality cameras if you're only going to have two in the whole store), the police never said they shoplifted, the workers at the store were interviewed and never said they shoplifted...I'm going to say they almost certainly didn't. Just like I'm going to say they almost certainly killed 3 people and not 13 because there's no evidence of them killing additional people besides the three we know about.

 

[LoisLane]

Right. We don't know. But so far there's zero evidence that they did. So it can't be asserted that this is a "shoplifting video" which shows their M.O. for shoplifting.

Again...by that logic I could say they killed 13 people. Technically since nobody was following them at every moment they were alive, we can't say for sure that they didn't!



I think this was their activity at the store that was in the report, actually. It's hard to tell because if you look up "Meadow Lake Co-op" online you get like five different locations of different types of stores, but one of them is "Meadow Lake Co-op Service Centre" and on Google Maps, it looks like it has a gas station attached. And the report mentioned the surveillance footage from this store being what first confirmed they were still alive, which is consistent with MSM reports about the footage we have seen.

In any case this store had like 1080p video footage, most likely also from additional cameras besides the one we've seen (because why have such high-quality cameras if you're only going to have two in the whole store), the police never said they shoplifted, the workers at the store were interviewed and never said they shoplifted...I'm going to say they almost certainly didn't. Just like I'm going to say they almost certainly killed 3 people and not 13 because there's no evidence of them killing additional people besides the three we know about.

Killing 13 people to the shoplifting scenario is a bit dramatic for a comparison argument about summarizing it as a shoplifting video.

The store they showed the video surveillance is not showing gas for sale. There are two other locations (different addresses) where gas can be purchased (one is a cardlock) so to assume without proof that this is where they bought gas makes no sense to me.

The interviewed workers at the store may not have been aware of a theft and/or were not comfortable making such a claim on tv.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Killing 13 people to the shoplifting scenario is a bit dramatic for a comparison argument about summarizing it as a shoplifting video.

The store they showed the video surveillance is not showing gas for sale. There are two other locations (different addresses) where gas can be purchased (one is a cardlock) so to assume without proof that this is where they bought gas makes no sense to me.

The interviewed workers at the store may not have been aware of a theft and/or were not comfortable making such a claim on tv.

All I'm saying is there's a difference between an opinion and an assertion. It's one thing to have the opinion (based on very limited evidence) that they shoplifted...another to say that they definitely did and that the video is definitely a video of them shoplifting, when the police, MSM, and store staff have never asserted or even speculated that they did. It's not about these guys' morality or lack thereof (that would be a literal "arson murder and jaywalking" situation, wouldn't it?)...it's about that when opinions turn into assertions, it becomes a slippery slope.

Personally I don't think the evidence, at this point, is compelling enough for me to believe they shoplifted, for the reasons I described, and I doubt my opinion will be changed unless new information comes out.

TBH I'm too tired to figure out what store they were at rn but maybe tomorrow I'll try to look into it.

 

[LoisLane]

All I'm saying is there's a difference between an opinion and an assertion. It's one thing to have the opinion (based on very limited evidence) that they shoplifted...another to say that they definitely did and that the video is definitely a video of them shoplifting, when the police, MSM, and store staff have never asserted or even speculated that they did. It's not about these guys' morality or lack thereof (that would be a literal "arson murder and jaywalking" situation, wouldn't it?)...it's about that when opinions turn into assertions, it becomes a slippery slope.

Personally I don't think the evidence, at this point, is compelling enough for me to believe they shoplifted, for the reasons I described, and I doubt my opinion will be changed unless new information comes out.

TBH I'm too tired to figure out what store they were at rn but maybe tomorrow I'll try to look into it.

Well we don’t know if they purchased a knife or hunting supplies either so I guess we could assume they bought toe warmers. But we do know they made purchases because the store clerk said so. In other purchases we learned of a jerry can, chocolate bars, donuts, and gloves... which connected them to the crime scenes of course. So because the victims were already dead we don’t need to hear about any shoplifted or purchased items even if it was something to aid in future crimes.

I’m too tired to look too but I can guarantee the first part of the video of them wandering the store is the hardware store. I’m sure we would have picked up on it if the exit video portion of the video was of them at a different COOP in Meadow Lake.

Not sure how gas is paid for in Sask. but nowadays it is typically prepaid at the pump (with a card) or if cash you prepay inside.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Well we don’t know if they purchased a knife or hunting supplies either so I guess we could assume they bought toe warmers. But we do know they made purchases because the store clerk said so. In other purchases we learned of a jerry can, chocolate bars, donuts, and gloves... which connected them to the crime scenes of course. So because the victims were already dead we don’t need to hear about any shoplifted or purchased items even if it was something to aid in future crimes.

I’m too tired to look too but I can guarantee the first part of the video of them wandering the store is the hardware store. I’m sure we would have picked up on it if the exit video portion of the video was of them at a different COOP in Meadow Lake.

Not sure how gas is paid for in Sask. but nowadays it is typically prepaid at the pump (with a card) or if cash you prepay inside.

So I looked it up on Google Maps and it looks like Meadow Lake Service Centre is a hardware store and also has gas pumps. That has to be where the footage was from, which means it is most likely also what was referenced in the report (although it sounds like the police had additional footage besides what they released to the public, as I speculated, since they mentioned the footage showed them with the RAV4).

Technically it also never says in the report that they actually purchased gas there. It just says they were there and driving a RAV4. But if they did prepay inside with cash then that could have been the purchase they made while there, and would explain why they didn't appear to be holding anything when walking out, despite the cashier saying in the interview that they made a purchase.

 

[srper2]

Does anyone here know about guns? I don't know much, but both guns look pretty crappy. Has anyone had a close look a the guns they used? I didn't really until this afternoon. I was preoccupied with the scratching on the newer gun, but after a second look, have to wonder if the older SKS would have fired at all. It appears to have a badly damaged bolt cover and the barrel appears to be damaged/corroded to the point that a bullet probably could not fire through? The older one looks like it was dug up from a tip and was unusable! Do they both have folded bayonettes? I hope they did not use the bayonettes in their murders .
Link to pic: The Northern B.C. murderers used the exact type of rifles Trudeau is hoping to ban |

 

[poupetty77]

Does anyone here know about guns? I don't know much, but both guns look pretty crappy. Has anyone had a close look a the guns they used? I didn't really until this afternoon. I was preoccupied with the scratching on the newer gun, but after a second look, have to wonder if the older SKS would have fired at all. It appears to have a badly damaged bolt cover and the barrel appears to be damaged/corroded to the point that a bullet probably could not fire through? The older one looks like it was dug up from a tip and was unuseable! Do they both have folded bayonettes? I hope they did not use the bayonettes in their murders .
Link to pic: The Northern B.C. murderers used the exact type of rifles Trudeau is hoping to ban |

I thought about it yesterday. I don't know anything about guns but I find it weird that they only had those two guns. I would think that if they had been planning and dreaming about their big final act, they would have bought more guns/more powerful ones. I don't know if I am clear, but it seems to me that the guns don't match the explosion of violence in them that would explain the murders? JMO

In every other case of teen killers I can think of, the weapons were more "impressive". Or is it a gun law problem, Kam couldn't buy a bigger gun/more guns without attracting attention?

It would be interesting to hear the opinion of a behaviour analyst (Is that what it's called?) that worked on the case about it.

 

[LoisLane]

So I looked it up on Google Maps and it looks like Meadow Lake Service Centre is a hardware store and also has gas pumps. That has to be where the footage was from, which means it is most likely also what was referenced in the report (although it sounds like the police had additional footage besides what they released to the public, as I speculated, since they mentioned the footage showed them with the RAV4).

Technically it also never says in the report that they actually purchased gas there. It just says they were there and driving a RAV4. But if they did prepay inside with cash then that could have been the purchase they made while there, and would explain why they didn't appear to be holding anything when walking out, despite the cashier saying in the interview that they made a purchase.

Can you please link some sort of proof that the hardware store sells gas.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Can you please link some sort of proof that the hardware store sells gas.

Just look it up on Google Maps...Meadow Lake Co-op Service Centre. There are gas pumps located right next to the store and the location for those is referred to on Google Maps as "Co-op Cardlock," indicating it is owned by the same thing. One review says "Lots of pumps and the service and hardware store is right next to the cardlock."

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Hardwood Store on the left, but it looks like it's in the same parking lot.

 

[Moriarty]

Just look it up on Google Maps...Meadow Lake Co-op Service Centre. There are gas pumps located right next to the store and the location for those is referred to on Google Maps as "Co-op Cardlock," indicating it is owned by the same thing. One review says "Lots of pumps and the service and hardware store is right next to the cardlock."

I think there might be confusion here about the two different Co-op locations in Meadow Lake. The one you're referring to above, @NJSleuth91 is the larger, hardware store/grocery store that has aisles with products, much like a mini-Walmart. That gas centre is a 'cardlock' gas station, which means it's only usable by drivers with fleet cards, like larger transports, company or government vehicles, etc. Over on 1 Avenue, heading eastwards, there is a Co-op gas station with a smaller convenience store, like a 7-11. That would be the spot that the pair got gas if they did stop at a Co-op for fuel. I think the video footage that was released looks much more likely to be the interior of the larger, Co-op store that you and @CanadianSleuther cite.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think there might be confusion here about the two different Co-op locations in Meadow Lake. The one you're referring to above, @NJSleuth91 is the larger, hardware store/grocery store that has aisles with products, much like a mini-Walmart. That gas centre is a 'cardlock' gas station, which means it's only usable by drivers with fleet cards, like larger transports, company or government vehicles, etc. Over on 1 Avenue, heading eastwards, there is a Co-op gas station with a smaller convenience store, like a 7-11. That would be the spot that the pair got gas if they did stop at a Co-op for fuel. I think the video footage that was released looks much more likely to be the interior of the larger, Co-op store that you and @CanadianSleuther cite.

So you think they were at both locations? Because it says they were at a gas station but never actually says that they purchased any gas there. So I guess it depends on what the definition of a gas station is, whether they were referring to the hardware store or not.

 

[Moriarty]

So you think they were at both locations? Because it says they were at a gas station but never actually says that they purchased any gas there. So I guess it depends on what the definition of a gas station is, whether they were referring to the hardware store or not.

I don't know...but that security video is definitely inside the larger Co-op supply store and not the smaller convenience store. It could be the RCMP simply called the larger store a "gas station," even though a lot of people wouldn't call it that.

 

[Errrr]

I was one who thought they might've shoplifted as well.

I mentioned way back in the thread when we were discussing this that I think they would've bought items along with stealing so to not be suspicious to walk around and not buy anything. Who knows though!

They may have strolled through to find out if they were famous yet? See if they could get a chase on.

 

[LoisLane]

So you think they were at both locations? Because it says they were at a gas station but never actually says that they purchased any gas there. So I guess it depends on what the definition of a gas station is, whether they were referring to the hardware store or not.

There are multiple gas stations in ML besides the Coop on 710 1 Ave W (which is not the hardware store located at 513 9 St W).

The report does not specify the COOP at all.

“On July 21, 2019, at 2:30 p.m., McLeod and Schmegelsky were observed at a gas station in Meadow Lake in Saskatchewan, driving a silver RAV4. [This surveillance video established McLeod and Schmegelsky’s links to the Dease Lake homicide as described earlier.]”


“On July 22, 2019, at approximately 07:30 a.m., the Meadow Lake RCMP responded to information that McLeod and Schmegelsky had been at a gas station in Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan. At approximately 2:00 p.m., the E Division (BC) Major Crime investigators received the surveillance stills from the Meadow Lake RCMP, which showed McLeod and Schmegelsky associated to a grey coloured Toyota RAV4.

At approximately 2:00 p.m., primary investigators became aware of a witness who came forward to a RCMP detachment and provided a statement. The witness knew McLeod and Schmegelsky and believed the boys may have been involved in the murders. This is the first time that police learned that McLeod and Schmegelsky may be capable of the murders which conflicted with original witness statements from family and associates.”

On another note... the above reference to receiving the stills and the witness who came forward both happened at 2:00 pm. It is possible something significant happened in Meadow Lake that a witness was able to prove their capability.

 

[NJSleuth91]

At approximately 2:00 p.m., primary investigators became aware of a witness who came forward to a RCMP detachment and provided a statement. The witness knew McLeod and Schmegelsky and believed the boys may have been involved in the murders. This is the first time that police learned that McLeod and Schmegelsky may be capable of the murders which conflicted with original witness statements from family and associates.”

On another note... the above reference to receiving the stills and the witness who came forward both happened at 2:00 pm. It is possible something significant happened in Meadow Lake that a witness was able to prove their capability.

I don't think so...to me it sounds like the witness was someone who knew them -- my guess is, most likely one of their friends.

 

[LoisLane]

I don't think so...to me it sounds like the witness was someone who knew them -- my guess is, most likely one of their friends.

It could be. For me the wording “knew” is as loose as “observed”, which was used to say they were “observed” at various gas stations when we know for example that at Fairview they are pumping gas so it could have said “they were observed purchasing gas”.

“Knew” could be a witness who can confirm their identities and had some sort of recent interaction/observation that coincides with their recent actions. Something more solid then a friend saying (example) “they told me they were going to shoot people”.

Just trying to avoid a slippery slope.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It could be. For me the wording “knew” is as loose as “observed”, which was used to say they were “observed” at various gas stations when we know for example that at Fairview they are pumping gas so it could have said “they were observed purchasing gas”.

“Knew” could be a witness who can confirm their identities and had some sort of recent interaction/observation that coincides with their recent actions. Something more solid then a friend saying (example) “they told me they were going to shoot people”.

Just trying to avoid a slippery slope.

That would be an entirely unique linguistic usage of the word "knew."

 

[Grouper]

It could be. For me the wording “knew” is as loose as “observed”, which was used to say they were “observed” at various gas stations when we know for example that at Fairview they are pumping gas so it could have said “they were observed purchasing gas”.

“Knew” could be a witness who can confirm their identities and had some sort of recent interaction/observation that coincides with their recent actions. Something more solid then a friend saying (example) “they told me they were going to shoot people”.

Just trying to avoid a slippery slope.

Another reason why I wish the report was a little more precise.

Would the RCMP jump into overdrive from a witness report that came from a person who just “observed” them? Certainly they could become suspects, but I think the RCMP would require more concrete information... a random stranger with some sneaking suspicion is not enough to immediately label two teenagers as so dangerous they must not be approached.

Unless the witness was a stranger who was actively threatened by them — and this is something I believe they would include in the report if that were the case — it’s not just a random observer who came forward.

It really sounds like it was someone who knew them and had a history with them. JMO.

ETA: I think RCMP would actually take it very, very seriously if a friend came forward and said “they told me they were going to shoot people.” I don’t see how a statement like that from a known associate would be held less trustworthy than a random stranger coming forward.

 

[LoisLane]

Another reason why I wish the report was a little more precise.

Would the RCMP jump into overdrive from a witness report that came from a person who just “observed” them? Certainly they could become suspects, but I think the RCMP would require more concrete information... a random stranger with some sneaking suspicion is not enough to immediately label two teenagers as so dangerous they must not be approached.

Unless the witness was a stranger who was actively threatened by them — and this is something I believe they would include in the report if that were the case — it’s not just a random observer who came forward.

It really sounds like it was someone who knew them and had a history with them. JMO.

ETA: I think RCMP would actually take it very, very seriously if a friend came forward and said “they told me they were going to shoot people.” I don’t see how a statement like that from a known associate would be held less trustworthy than a random stranger coming forward.

I agree. We did have “friends” who came forward to share threats that BS made. I’m saying that whatever the account it would fit within the timeline, not years or months prior even. As for a random stranger being able to come forward I mean that they could be loosely described as “knowing” them because this person could have strong evidence to validate their identities and had an interaction of sorts that would suggest they are capable of murder. So for example.. sold them ammo, or weaponry, liquor, was threatened in some form by them, confirmed identity by photo ID, and possibly a full out confession to a random stranger for kicks. Whatever it was I think it was more substantial than what could be classified as rumour or gossip.