Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #23

[Trooper]

<modsnip: personalizing>

At the end of the day, we don't know why they killed, how they felt or if they wanted to be famous. Their actions during the time they fled Leonard Dyck's murder scene and the time they died seemed to not really prove any wish to be famous. They could have committed more crimes, they could have recorded a video and post it on Instagram, they could have start a shootout with the police. They could many things. But they didn't. They recorded some videos on Leonard's camera, that could have never been found. We don't even know if they sick with fever/ dehydration took some drugs.

I am not saying they didn't want fame. Maybe they did. But I hardly think there is enough evidence to draw any conclusion about their mental health, state of mind or intentions before, during and after the killings. We can all have opinions. We can all have certitudes. We can all be convinced that acting this way or doing that means X, Y or Z. But at the end of the day. We don't KNOW. JMO

<modsnip: snipped response to personalized comment>

We can say with a certain assurance that they killed random strangers for the self satisfaction it bought. Why else would they do it? . no one forced them, they were not compelled, they chose to, they actually put themselves in a risky situation to do it. Killing is a messy , dirty business, and these two young killers looked the fastidious kind, the shirt buttoned up to the neck, the clean shaven Bryer, etc.. we know they got quite close up to Lucas and Chynna because their bodies were arrayed in a particular manner. We also know they got up really close to Prof Dyck, because he was beaten and an attempt was made to burn him.



There had to be a pay off, humans are not inclined to do anything without a payoff, emotionally, intellectually, or physically. Its just the way we are. I have no idea if they wished to be famous, I don't buy into the Columbine copycat theory for one nanosecond, so their motivation is always going to be that of self satisfaction, whatever the outcome turns out to be. That they drove for a while and killed again only underlines the self satisfaction they wrung from the first two murders...

Would they have killed again as they clearly stated they intended to do? I believe so, because it was necessary to them to do this, to be this. This was their chosen path.

 

[Trooper]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

actually, if there is anyone from Port Alberni reading these posts, could you tell me if there were any unsolved and mysterious firelightings going on over the past 4 years or so around PA? ..

thanks in advance.

 

[Jan424]

I also found the lack of comment from K's parents unsettling. There was no attempt, or no public attempt anyway, to talk them down or out of it.

The McLeod family doesn’t owe the general public a single word, and I don’t blame them for staying silent. They’d likely be skewered either way. Same with Bryer’s Mom..... good for her. I’m sure they have enough to deal with in this nightmare.

 

[Jan424]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

None of us knew these two young men but but we are allowed to speculate. That’s why we are here. And, no disrespect, but their PA friends (what few there were) are kind of the last people I’m concerned about. If they are here, they may not like what they read as there are comments from all sides. I personally will not mince words out of concern a “friend” may be here. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

With AS and Bryer's mother, there is his side of the story, her side of the story and the truth. I don't think all he has to say his false, but he is angry, probably was given a ****** hand in a province which up until recently wasn't father friendly. I do think eventually the truth will come out.

It’s quite easy to prove a spouse is lying if allegations are made as a result of a criminal complaint from a spouse who’s in fear of her life because the other person is not taking medication after being diagnosed as schizophrenic, by confirming the medical records of the psychiatrist who made the diagnosis. But as the media is unable to access mental health records in Canada, it’s impossible the truth will come out. AS obviously knows this.

“.......It’s unclear whether his ex-wife was the target of the harassment in each case, but Schmegelsky said in an interview that at least some of the charges were filed because the boy’s mother feared he would murder her, saying he was schizophrenic and was not taking his medication. He denies these allegations.

Schmegelsky writes in the book that a forensic psychologist diagnosed him as “delusional,” a conclusion he disagreed with.....”
B.C. murder suspect’s father reveals details of troubled life in book

 

[Trooper]

None of us knew these two young men but but we are allowed to speculate. That’s why we are here. And, no disrespect, but their PA friends (what few there were) are kind of the last people I’m concerned about. If they are here, they may not like what they read as there are comments from all sides. I personally will not mince words out of concern a “friend” may be here. JMO

I would be utterly gobsmacked if , say, just as a theory, K and B had friends in PA, and then, to extend the theory, those friends joined web sleuths and posted on this site.. without divulging their connections to K and B.. when they could sell their 'story' for big bucks to the Daily Fail.

That would be too weird, even for Canadians.

 

[Trooper]

I expect the Canadian public broadcaster will make a program on the Fifth Estate about this crime, could someone in Canada please put up the date of when that would be, when known, just for those of us outside Canada . Be appreciated.

Thank god for public broadcasting.

( for Aus, the Fifth Estate is the equiv. of Four Corners, ABC.)

 

[Esprite]

@Zella already pointed out, with an FBI link, that Kam and Bryer fit the profile of spree killers, who kill twice or more with no cooling off period in between.

In addition, spree killers often work in partnership, with one person being the dominant leader and planner, who is in control of the other. This could also fit the profile of a cold-blooded psychopath who has gone over the edge, with the other being more of a sociopathic personality.

There is often a suicide pact, because along with a shared, overwhelming, internalized, murderous rage, they also feel hopeless and suicidal. A volatile and lethal combination that perhaps explains, at least partially, why the RCMP reacted so strongly with the unprecedented manhunt.

In my work, I occasionally find psychopathic tendencies in young children who have other children under their control. It always scares the hell out of me, because of the very real risks involved if they continue to grow up together.

Although we should feel a certain degree of empathy for these children, society must also be protected from them at all cost.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Talk or not, it shows where their head was at. Or at least where Bryer's was at, since he made the announcement.

And the torching of the RAV4 does not indicate a desire to announce their position.

I have to say, it's quite bizarre to me that they would announce they are going to kill more people now and then not hike back. Just completely bizarre.

When I heard that Kam shot Bryer that was the first thing I thought of: that there might have been a disagreement about what to do next. Bryer wanted his "blaze of glory," but Kam wasn't up for it.

I think in regards to the video where Kam and Bryer said they were going back to kill more people and they'll be dead in a week was more just tough guy talk. I think shortly after they made that video that was the new plan but then they soon realized how many people were hunting them with people on the ground, boats on the river, trucks and SUVs up and down PR 290, helicopters, airplanes, drones, etc. They even brought in two Canadian Military planes on the 27th of July. They were also using the thermal imaging which some were saying Kam and Bryer were already dead by then because they couldn't spot their heat signatures but I think the tree cover was just too dense to locate them. I believe the thermal camera was used on the 24th and 25th? I also wonder if they made any fires at all? Like small ones at night? Man that must have been awful, no tent (that we've heard), no fires. Now as for their suicides. I think when they actually did it they were ready. My thoughts are they made their way to the river when they had finally had enough, they were probably already close to natural death anyway and they knew it. Still, I think when it got down to those final minutes and they were down at the river's edge Bryer just couldn't go through with it. I get the disagreement thing, but I think if that were the case, Kam would have shot Bryer up top in the woods. Perhaps they would have found Kam first on the side of the river then later found Bryer up top in the woods. It's also important to know how Bryer's body was positioned when they found him. If they were arguing I guess Bryer could have either been shot in the chest from the front or turned to walk away and Kam shot him in the back of the head. Personally in my opinion, I think Bryer wanted to keep it "honorable" in "romantic" in military terms and asked to be formally executed i.e. on his knees and shot through the back of the head point blank.

 

[Zella]

In my work, I occasionally find psychopathic tendencies in young children who have other children under their control. It always scares the hell out of me, because of the very real risks involved if they continue to grow up together.

That's really interesting--this case has made me think a lot about warning signs someone should detect in children's/teens' friendships and how one goes about handling that without causing further issues. (Thinking about Parker-Hulme where talk of separating the girls led to murder. )

Can you talk a little more about this, if you don't mind?

 

[Trooper]

It’s quite easy to prove a spouse is lying if allegations are made as a result of a criminal complaint from a spouse who’s in fear of her life because the other person is not taking medication after being diagnosed as schizophrenic, by confirming the medical records of the psychiatrist who made the diagnosis. But as the media is unable to access mental health records in Canada, it’s impossible the truth will come out. AS obviously knows this.

“.......It’s unclear whether his ex-wife was the target of the harassment in each case, but Schmegelsky said in an interview that at least some of the charges were filed because the boy’s mother feared he would murder her, saying he was schizophrenic and was not taking his medication. He denies these allegations.

Schmegelsky writes in the book that a forensic psychologist diagnosed him as “delusional,” a conclusion he disagreed with.....”
B.C. murder suspect’s father reveals details of troubled life in book

That is the saddest side effect of that illness, the absolute determination to reject the diagnosis. .an element of Oppositional Defiance going on there, in conjunction. That whole aura would have been difficult not only for the mother, but for Bryer, as a child, even as a teenager, he may not have had the acuity to discern the difference between fact and AS's fantasies.. the fantasy is so strong that the holder of them is tremendously persuasive , after all, they are persuaded themselves with it.

And then, of course, there are the fantasies of Bryer to contend with at the same time.. throw in god alone knows what fantasies Kam had bubbling away, and there you have it. Three dead bodies on the side of a deserted highway.

 

[Trooper]

'the two boys'?... you mean the two young men, on the brink of adulthood, who, without any provocation whatsoever, having lived in the Western world all their lives, that is, with clean water, and housing, and good food, and free and compulsory schooling, often transported to that school, sheltered from war and famine and storm and disease, and without any knowledge of their victims circumstances, did, as a deliberate and calculated act, taken over many days, and many hundred of klms, made the decision and purchased the weaponry and ammo and fuel and maps and equipment, solely to hunt down other human beings, yes, hunt down other human beings, of no relation to them whatsoever, not responsible for any of the perceived hurt feelings K and B maintained, found these vulnerable human beings, and without any further ado, lined them up and shot them. One, a woman, who most likely had to watch the man she loved being murdered, perhaps incapacitated first and then murdered. Knowing the same fate awaited her.

Then on to an elderly Professor, a lifetime of community service, a valuable Canadian, doing valuable work, a concept unknown to your 'two boys', doing his work, as usual as he has done for years and he is confronted with the spectre of your 'two boys', armed and up for killing, but slowly this time, they have to beat the Prof a bit around the head, and set him alight, as well, and then shoot him and leave his body for the night animals, just like they left Lucas and Chynna's body out, displayed, their very own production, ready to be observed.

Are these the 'two boys' you are referring to ?

 

[cherrytree9]

I would be utterly gobsmacked if , say, just as a theory, K and B had friends in PA, and then, to extend the theory, those friends joined web sleuths and posted on this site.. without divulging their connections to K and B.. when they could sell their 'story' for big bucks to the Daily Fail.

That would be too weird, even for Canadians.

Personally I don't find it difficult to imagine people who knew Bryer or Kam (or suspects/victims in other cases) wanting to anonymously set the record straight on certain facts without seeking financial compensation. Not saying that their friends are definitely posting on here, but I really don't see what would be so surprising about it.

 

[DarkSkink]

The McLeod family doesn’t owe the general public a single word, and I don’t blame them for staying silent. They’d likely be skewered either way. Same with Bryer’s Mom..... good for her. I’m sure they have enough to deal with in this nightmare.

I was alluding more to the time while they were still on the run. One can argue that if you have a way to stop them from killing, you owe it to the future possible victims to at least try. There is no playbook to go by though, for sure.

 

[Jan424]

I was alluding more to the time while they were still on the run. One can argue that if you have a way to stop them from killing, you owe it to the future possible victims to at least try. There is no playbook to go by though, for sure.

Way back in the threads there was actually a discussion about whether anyone should have or could have reached out to them while on the run. I was one who was rather surprised no family member did but many here strongly felt otherwise. But there could be plenty we don’t know from behind the scenes. JMO

 

[Jan424]

I'm surprised they even mentioned to be cremated TBH. I'm not trying to be crass, it's a bit contradictory is all to me - they care and make note how they want to be destroyed (by fire), but don't care how they are disposed of afterwards. JMO

SBM
Great point you made here. I hadn’t looked at it that way, till now.

 

[Errrr]

I agree with this thought as well.

No dignity for themselves and also to not conform to the social norms of the "sheeple" out there... No way they'd have a funeral or anything sentimental or formal like everyone else does.

I'm surprised they even mentioned to be cremated TBH. I'm not trying to be crass, it's a bit contradictory is all to me - they care and make note how they want to be destroyed (by fire), but don't care how they are disposed of afterwards. JMO

Only about six pounds of mineral is under consideration. The rest goes up in smoke and is scraped off the pollution screens to be dumped in the hazardous waste garbage.

 

[Grouper]

<modsnip>

Both families issued a statement, which I think is more than enough. Kam’s father, who reportedly could not get through a sentence without breaking down in tears, issued a very heartwarming and tender statement about his son.

Why would they expose themselves to any more public vitriol? They are suffering enough and it repeatedly appals me to see people demanding them to speak out, especially now. Talk about entitlement!

And my heart goes out to both friends and family of all deceased. I don’t discriminate between one person’s pain and another’s. It’s not the Suffering Olympics. Part of why I don’t like commenting on this thread is because I don’t want to increase the trauma of the friends and families involved. I wish everyone felt the same way, but alas, we’re all wonderfully (and damningly) entitled to Our Precious Opinions.

This is all JMO. End rant.

 

[LoisLane]

SBM
Great point you made here. I hadn’t looked at it that way, till now.

Going back to the garbage comment.. I am curious if the “final will and testament” was directed to both his parents or just his mom (could it be why the decision by police wouldn’t give access to dad?). If just his mom and he said to just toss his ashes in the garbage then I sense the disdain that BS may have mirrored back to his mom.

I just can’t understand that BS would have left the message to both his parents if the police wouldn’t have allowed access to the father (and the father had to fight for that right) so for me it becomes an even more personal message to his mother/maternal side. Did he think that his family would actually comply with his garbage wishes? Based on AS’s pleas and grief we have seen he surely wouldn’t have lead his child to believe he was garbage.

Then I think back to one of AS’s interviews where he stated that BS was skin and bones, unhealthy, abused, neglected. If this is true I wish him well in his pursuit to challenge the system that took away his parenting rights.

JMO, MOO, BAA, ETC.

 

[DarkSkink]

Going back to the garbage comment.. I am curious if the “final will and testament” was directed to both his parents or just his mom (could it be why the decision by police wouldn’t give access to dad?). If just his mom and he said to just toss his ashes in the garbage then I sense the disdain that BS may have mirrored back to his mom.

I just can’t understand that BS would have left the message to both his parents if the police wouldn’t have allowed access to the father (and the father had to fight for that right) so for me it becomes an even more personal message to his mother/maternal side. Did he think that his family would actually comply with his garbage wishes? Based on AS’s pleas and grief we have seen he surely wouldn’t have lead his child to believe he was garbage.

Then I think back to one of AS’s interviews where he stated that BS was skin and bones, unhealthy, abused, neglected. If this is true I wish him well in his pursuit to challenge the system that took away his parenting rights.

JMO, MOO, BAA, ETC.

On the contrary, given what we know, it's quite plausible that he felt 'disposable'.