Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #23

[LoisLane]

On the contrary, given what we know, it's quite plausible that he felt 'disposable'.

I do think he actually saw himself as ‘disposable’ and may have even been told that a time or two. So I’m suggesting it was a direct stab at the viewer it was left for and that viewer may not have been meant for dad if it was addressed only to his mother or maternal side (based on the father having to fight for the right to see it).

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread closed for the night.

Warning points have been issued to some members. Any more nonsense and permanent thread reply bans or minimum 1 week TOs will be forthcoming OR general discussion thread will be closed with only the Media, Maps, Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* thread open for contributing any new info from MSM.

 

[Sillybilly]

Please review The Rules: Dealing with your fellow posters

 

[CinNC]

Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY is in a position to judge or make bold assumptions regarding AS, BS's mother or grandmother, and KM's immediate family based only on what has been presented in MSM. Nobody.

 

[ktm44]

I do think he actually saw himself as ‘disposable’ and may have even been told that a time or two. So I’m suggesting it was a direct stab at the viewer it was left for and that viewer may not have been meant for dad if it was addressed only to his mother or maternal side (based on the father having to fight for the right to see it).

It would be interesting to know if it was directed at an individual or not but I do believe that if it was directed at an individual, AS would have made a public statement to that effect. Your comment does agree with my previous statement that the RCMP may have only showed the video to those who were named.

I don't always agree with AS or his approach but he does seem to have some desire for the public to understand his son and what he believes led to this point.

 

[Satchie]

Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY is in a position to judge or make bold assumptions regarding AS, BS's mother or grandmother, and KM's immediate family based only on what has been presented in MSM. Nobody.

I certainly agree, but, alas, people will do it anyway. They go around judging everything and everybody without the slightest effort to understand the other's point of view, or the impact of their words. I don't think this is something new: there was someone who talked about it a long time ago, what was it....Judge not lest thee be judged. And something about casting stones. IIRC, the same person, in a pretty unpleasant situation said 'Forgive them, for they know not what they do'.

I feel great empathy for the family and friends of the teens, but IMO their pain isn't really because of public opinion (it's always easier to blame strangers). They've been profoundly betrayed by AS and KM, who probably didn't understand and didn't care about the impact of what they were doing on the people who loved them. Young people are very stupid and careless that way.

The family and friends are going to have to suffer through their grief and loss, there's no way around it. I hope they can do it without blaming themselves, blaming the teens, blaming each other, blaming police, blaming the victims, or blaming the public (blaming the courts, blaming the school, blaming the government...). What is done, is done, blame contributes nothing and just leaves bitterness behind.

 

[DarkSkink]

Nobody, and I do mean NOBODY is in a position to judge or make bold assumptions regarding AS, BS's mother or grandmother, and KM's immediate family based only on what has been presented in MSM. Nobody.

That's a very bold assumption.

How did you arrive at that judgement?

 

[DarkSkink]

I certainly agree, but, alas, people will do it anyway. They go around judging everything and everybody without the slightest effort to understand the other's point of view, or the impact of their words. I don't think this is something new: there was someone who talked about it a long time ago, what was it....Judge not lest thee be judged. And something about casting stones. IIRC, the same person, in a pretty unpleasant situation said 'Forgive them, for they know not what they do'.

I feel great empathy for the family and friends of the teens, but IMO their pain isn't really because of public opinion (it's always easier to blame strangers). They've been profoundly betrayed by AS and KM, who probably didn't understand and didn't care about the impact of what they were doing on the people who loved them. Young people are very stupid and careless that way.

The family and friends are going to have to suffer through their grief and loss, there's no way around it. I hope they can do it without blaming themselves, blaming the teens, blaming each other, blaming police, blaming the victims, or blaming the public (blaming the courts, blaming the school, blaming the government...). What is done, is done, blame contributes nothing and just leaves bitterness behind.

I think it is quite the opposite, especially in online forums like WS.

Everyone it trying to understand and discussing different viewpoints. Some of it comes across as judgy. Sometimes it is, but a lot of times it is only read in the negative, rather than written negatively.

Debate is healthy. Discussing tough things is healthy. Confronting uncomfortable events in your life is healthy. Understanding and resolving traumatic issues is healthy. Doing the opposite is considered denial, repression, and unhealthy.

 

[DarkSkink]

It would be interesting to know if it was directed at an individual or not but I do believe that if it was directed at an individual, AS would have made a public statement to that effect. Your comment does agree with my previous statement that the RCMP may have only showed the video to those who were named.

I don't always agree with AS or his approach but he does seem to have some desire for the public to understand his son and what he believes led to this point.

Well, the RCMP did make him sign a non-disclosure agreement for the duration of the investigation. That sort of hints they were concerned with his numerous very wide open and emotional interviews with the press. Since AS had a lawyer involved, they likely had at least a technically sound argument in order to force the signature.

If they had an ulterior motive, we likely won't ever know. AS has been pretty good at calling out the various societal systems, so perhaps he will eventually have more to say.

 

[sandbar]

Discussing tough things is healthy.

sbm
IMHO
Discussing tough things is healthy when it is done with an open mind, a spirit of curiosity, and kindly. Without an open mind, curiosity and kindness, it isn't healthy debate, it's people talking for the sake of hearing their own voices, or to rile others up...

ETA: if you can't think of a kind way of saying something, try harder, it isn't that hard to be kind, and make your point...

 

[Satchie]

I think it is quite the opposite, especially in online forums like WS.

Everyone it trying to understand and discussing different viewpoints. Some of it comes across as judgy. Sometimes it is, but a lot of times it is only read in the negative, rather than written negatively.

Debate is healthy. Discussing tough things is healthy. Confronting uncomfortable events in your life is healthy. Understanding and resolving traumatic issues is healthy. Doing the opposite is considered denial, repression, and unhealthy.

I spend time on WS for that reason, but I expect there are an awful lot of extremely nasty, hate-filled messages being sent to family, from people outside WS. Even death threats, etc, there always are.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Well, the RCMP did make him sign a non-disclosure agreement for the duration of the investigation. That sort of hints they were concerned with his numerous very wide open and emotional interviews with the press. Since AS had a lawyer involved, they likely had at least a technically sound argument in order to force the signature.

If they had an ulterior motive, we likely won't ever know. AS has been pretty good at calling out the various societal systems, so perhaps he will eventually have more to say.

And this made me think of something...we know he only watched the 30-second final video. According to the RCMP, the only thing in the video was "this is our last will and testament, we want to be cremated." Don't you think it would be a bit unnecessary to make him sign an NDA over that? EDIT: Plus all the media attention the battle over viewing the video drew, which sustained public interest in a case the RCMP clearly wanted to be forgotten.

There had to be more to it than that. (Plus it doesn't take 30 seconds to say you want to be cremated.)

If the "throw my ashes in the garbage" comment is accurate, that actually makes a lot more sense about why the RCMP wanted control over the flow of information when it came to the video.

 

[Satchie]

sbm
IMHO
Discussing tough things is healthy when it is done with an open mind, a spirit of curiosity, and kindly. Without an open mind, curiosity and kindness, it isn't healthy debate, it's people talking for the sake of hearing their own voices, or to rile others up...

ETA: if you can't think of a kind way of saying something, try harder, it isn't that hard to be kind, and make your point...

I wanted to add, I'm just as guilty of this as everyone else, I can get pretty riled up over someone or something that happened, and starting hurling blame and insults around inside my own head, and they can leak out too. It's not easy.

 

[Jealoushe]

Another thing that came up recently. I was explaining this whole story to a friend who had been wondering where I've been the past three months and I shared this article (among several others) with her for supplemental reading. Anyway, scroll down a quarter of the way through the article, remember this bizarre tweet that surfaced on the night of the 29th/30th about Kam and Bryer killing themselves and to call the search off. I keep thinking about this and wonder just how much truth there may have been in that tweet in relation to Kam and Bryer's actual time of death. I know it made it into several media articles but it was mostly ignored because it was unsubstantiated. It could have easily been someone trolling, yet to this day it still has me wondering how strange it was both in terms of timing and the way it's written so matter of fact.

Pork chops and oranges before gruesome bush death

ok but that Twitter account is clearly a troll whackadoodle.

I know it is hard to accept these kids were blooded killers, but that's what they were. If the RCMP says they were remorseless and cold....I don't think there is much reason to think they were emotional, depressed and sad. Sounds like they did exactly what they set out to and were fine with it, just too chicken to face jail.

 

[Jan424]

EDIT: Plus all the media attention the battle over viewing the video drew, which sustained public interest in a case the RCMP clearly wanted to be forgotten.
There had to be more to it than that. (Plus it doesn't take 30 seconds to say you want to be cremated.)

SBM
I don’t think we can say with any certainty the RCMP clearly wanted this case forgotten.
As for the video, perhaps they took turns and shared that 30 seconds to say what they wanted to family. There likely was a bit more, but I personally don’t think we have a right to know what they said. Plus, maybe it was requested to be kept private. Just speculation... and MOO!

 

[Jealoushe]

I freely admit to not perhaps being up to speed on the dating habits of young Canadian men, but from the 18 and 19 yr olds I know here in Sydney , NSW, they are crazed with dating girls and going to clubs and bars and events and raves and start off with this stuff around 14, 15, … I don't know any who want to 'play warfare' in the woods with a dinky air rifle. ..

So .. were Kam and Bryer normal Canadian guys in this respect? ..

Yep...lots of young men in Canada spend a lot of time in the woods, hunting, 4 wheeling, etc. There are types that like bars and types that don't.

 

[NJSleuth91]

<modsnip>

As for the video, perhaps they took turns and shared that 30 seconds to say what they wanted to family. There likely was a bit more, but I personally don’t think we have a right to know what they said. Plus, maybe it was requested to be kept private. Just speculation... and MOO!

<modsnip> all I'm saying is there had to be more to it than "we want to be cremated." And whatever it was, was probably some sensitive information (such as "throw my ashes in the garbage," or other things like final messages to family), thus the need for an NDA.

 

[poupetty77]

<modsnip>

<modsnip> all I'm saying is there had to be more to it than "we want to be cremated." And whatever it was, was probably some sensitive information (such as "throw my ashes in the garbage," or other things like final messages to family), thus the need for an NDA.

I agree with you. If they each talk, they would show 15 seconds to each family and even 15 seconds is a lot to say "we killed those people, we're going to kill ourselves. I want to be cremated, you can throw my ashes in the bin".

If they really said, you can throw my ashes in the bin, I wouldn't be surprised if it was followed with a personal message to someone that made them feel like they were worthy of being thrown in the bin. JMO. What would surprise me is if they showed that to their families.

Or maybe they ranted about leaving this world that wasn't worth living in yada yada

 

[MistyWaters]

ok but that Twitter account is clearly a troll whackadoodle.

I know it is hard to accept these kids were blooded killers, but that's what they were. If the RCMP says they were remorseless and cold....I don't think there is much reason to think they were emotional, depressed and sad. Sounds like they did exactly what they set out to and were fine with it, just too chicken to face jail.

Yes, that Twitter “seemingly knowing” comment was only made after it was reported the sounds of gunshots had been heard in York Landing (100 miles away from Sundance). No arrest was made, suspects were not sighted so it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to take a guess it was the sound of guns involved in suicide. But that was not true as it was later reported the RCMP had indeed fired their weapons as a means of communications, to alert their location.

And I agree with you. It’s just as likely, even if the killers were emotional, depressed and sad at the time of their suicide it was not because of remorse over needlessly taking the lives of three innocent people - it was because they failed to execute a successful escape and their joyride had come to a dead end. As you say, too chicken to face jail. JMO

 

[poupetty77]

Yes, that Twitter “seemingly knowing” comment was only made after it was reported the sounds of gunshots had been heard in York Landing (100 miles away from Sundance). No arrest was made, suspects were not sighted so it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to take a guess it was the sound of guns involved in suicide. But that was not true as it was later reported the RCMP had indeed fired their weapons as a means of communications, to alert their location.

And I agree with you. It’s just as likely, even if the killers were emotional, depressed and sad at the time of their suicide it was not because of remorse over needlessly taking the lives of three innocent people - it was because they failed to execute a successful escape and their joyride had come to a dead end. As you say, too chicken to face jail. JMO

I don't get how anyone could locate where a gunshot comes from? I get that it would get attention, but is it possible to locate someone hearing gunshots? Honest question, I have never heard gunshots.