Deceased/Not Found Canada - Lyle, 78, & Marie McCann, 77, Alberta, 5 July 2010 #2 *T. Vader guilty*

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

37862_1536704786339_1496433013_1358887_627825_n.jpg



Here is a close-up of the poster. (The media should have a clickable, printable version of this along with their story, if you ask me.)
 
While I really hope these Rafters are found alive, I also hope that the increase of searchers in the Edson area, uncover something with regards to the McCann's.

Mounties are conducting a ground and air search for three people who were on a raft on a west-central Alberta river after dark.

Joan Lenahan, caretaker of Willmore Park in Edson, says some people came to the gates last night looking for help.

They told her that a group set out on rafts Monday afternoon on the McLeod River near Robb, about 230 kilometres west of Edmonton, intending to arrive at the park in Edson a few hours later.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...on-dark-river-ride-in-alberta/article1660504/
 
sillybilly said:
From what I can tell through googling and going back through Thread 1, it seems the first surveillance video was released to the public July 15. In a press release July 16, LE announced Vader as a POI, and the SUV was found later that day. Hopefully TV showed up in some of the various surveillance videos, and that's why LE was able to announce him as a POI on the 16th before the SUV was located.
Click to expand...

Thanks for looking at the timeline on that, Sillybilly. I think you must be right, the surveillance video places TV at the gas stations that day. The timing of everything, looking back now, is too coincidental to be seperate, unrelated events.
 
nickle couch said:
Virtually all motorhomes I know of, (I have owned 4 and my family owns 3 others) all have automatic transmissions. I don't know of a single brand that has an option to order a standard (manual) tranny. Especially diesel motorhomes.

The McCanns motorhome is a 1999 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager and it has a 275hp ISB Cummins Diesel Engine and an Allison automatic electronic transmission.

We have the same tranny in our motorhome too and it has a push button pad on the drivers side arm rest, and has to go right in R or D by pressing a button and the motorhome will only go in the direction of the gear selected, no rolling.

Also, any seasoned RVer (and truckdriver) would not swing away from the pumps too sharply as the back end swings in the opposite direction and could knock off a pump, pole or trash barrel. We take longer wider turns and are always careful of where our back end is in addition to where our front end is going.

I would think with all the years of driving experience of trucks and their motorhome, Mr. McCann would be very aware of this and drive accordingly.

I would think someone would be questioning this at the RCMP end of the investigation? I wonder if he was even driving the rig as it left the gas station?
Click to expand...

Thanks for you input on the RV stuff, it is very important, I think. After watching the video that was linked here, since you brought up the point regarding the RV backing up, I immediately thought of a few things (relevant or not? dunno).

-Why did LE release THAT video? Mr.McCann isn't in it at all. It seems a strange bit of video to release

-The RV must be a standard transmission. I was suprised to learn from you that it was not likely. This makes the strange "backing up" of the RV, even odder.

-Someone observed that the RV carved right out, away from the pumps (after backing up). It definitely appeared to do that in the video, and there is no way that a veteran driver would pull out that way. No way.

So, while I always felt like it was very unlikely that the McCann's RV was boarded right in the city like that, at the very beginning of their trip, I do wonder if indeed it was Mr.McCann driving OR if Mr.McCann wasn't trying to give LE a signal that something was amiss (since he would know that his family would recognize that was not his normal driving behaviour).
 
I'm wondering if LE has used dogs to thoroughly search the properties belonging to some of Vader's buddies.
 
Wondergirl said:
Thanks for you input on the RV stuff, it is very important, I think. After watching the video that was linked here, since you brought up the point regarding the RV backing up, I immediately thought of a few things (relevant or not? dunno).

-Why did LE release THAT video? Mr.McCann isn't in it at all. It seems a strange bit of video to release

-The RV must be a standard transmission. I was suprised to learn from you that it was not likely. This makes the strange "backing up" of the RV, even odder.

-Someone observed that the RV carved right out, away from the pumps (after backing up). It definitely appeared to do that in the video, and there is no way that a veteran driver would pull out that way. No way.

So, while I always felt like it was very unlikely that the McCann's RV was boarded right in the city like that, at the very beginning of their trip, I do wonder if indeed it was Mr.McCann driving OR if Mr.McCann wasn't trying to give LE a signal that something was amiss (since he would know that his family would recognize that was not his normal driving behaviour).
Click to expand...

Good points Sillybilly and WondergirlI!
I have also been thinking about the McCanns' cellphone. Did Mr. McCann use to carry the cellphone with him at all times ... in his pocket? Were they taken over so fast that none of them was able to turn it ON and dial 911? This makes me think there could have been more than one perp :waitasec:
Or did they keep the cellphone in a hard to reach place, like the glove compartment?
 
Hazel said:
... Were they taken over so fast that none of them was able to turn it ON and dial 911? This makes me think there could have been more than one perp ...
Click to expand...

Mr. McCann paid for the gas at the pump, but we don't know if he went into the station to purchase something else. If the perp jumped in the RV while Mr. McCann was in the store, he could easily have held a weapon on Mrs. McCann. With his wife's safety at stake, Mr. McCann would have done anything the perp wanted at that point ... although it would not be his normal driving behaviour, maybe he drove erratically away from the pumps because he was ordered to, OR the backing up and fast forward could have been intended as a signal that something was wrong.
 
Hazel said:
Good points Sillybilly and WondergirlI!
I have also been thinking about the McCanns' cellphone. Did Mr. McCann use to carry the cellphone with him at all times ... in his pocket? Were they taken over so fast that none of them was able to turn it ON and dial 911? This makes me think there could have been more than one perp :waitasec:
Or did they keep the cellphone in a hard to reach place, like the glove compartment?
Click to expand...


Exactly,-- my folks (in their early 70's) and my inlaws (in their late 70's) both have cell phones but they keep them OFF and tucked away in gosh knows where and my folks don't even turn it on often enough to even know which button to push to do so without really examining the phone. I doubt if they could get it out, turn it on and dial 911 when in an emergency situation.

Heck, my mom don't even remember how to get messages off voice mail, even with my written instructions. So we stopped leaving them messages and wait for them to call us!

Both my folks and my inlaws travel in big diesel motorhomes too, and both tow vehicles behind, just like we do. Thus my interest in this case. I just shudder to think of the McCanns and how this could be my parents or inlaws in their very predicament.
 
nickle couch said:
Exactly,-- my folks (in their early 70's) and my inlaws (in their late 70's) both have cell phones but they keep them OFF and tucked away in gosh knows where and my folks don't even turn it on often enough to even know which button to push to do so without really examining the phone. I doubt if they could get it out, turn it on and dial 911 when in an emergency situation.

Heck, my mom don't even remember how to get messages off voice mail, even with my written instructions. So we stopped leaving them messages and wait for them to call us!

Both my folks and my inlaws travel in big diesel motorhomes too, and both tow vehicles behind, just like we do. Thus my interest in this case. I just shudder to think of the McCanns and how this could be my parents or inlaws in their very predicament.
Click to expand...
ITA, that's exactly what I was thinking :( if they didn't use it that much, it wouldn't have been easy for them to place any call, specially in an emergency/stressful situation or if it was stored out of reach.
So sad they couldn't just at least dial 911 even if they couldn't talk, because that way LE could have tracked them down then, and the outcome could have been different.

I also agree with SB's theory that it is very likely Mrs. McCann was taken off guard first while alone in the RV, while Mr.McCann was either using the washrooms or paying in the store. I am still not 100 percent convinced this happened at this St. Albert gas station; could have happened later at a rest stop, IDK. Hopefully all other video cameras were working, and LE checked them all to see if there was any suspicious looking activity around the RV. Unfortunately, the RV itself would be blocking the view, since I guess the perp used the passenger side to gain access.

Also, we still don't know for sure if Mr.McCann used that last pump in the pictures I posted. That was the best side view from Google street view of the pumps, and that last one seems to be the best choice for the size of the RV and SUV, JMO.

After this horrible thing happened to the McCanns, I hope all people are going to be more cautious and take precautions to avoid something like this from ever happening again.
Getting seniors very familiar with how to use a cellphone and keeping it handy at all times. I think it would be a good idea to give each of them their own cellphone (just like teenagers do), and maybe asking them to call every now and then, while on the road.
Locking the RV every time one of them leaves the RV would be a good idea as well, JMHO.
 
If, as alluded to, TV is the perp, I find his connection to Summerland to be of particular interest. Jeannie Roelfsema was returning to Summerland, the McCanns were planning on going through Okanagan, and TV's ex-wife still lives in Summerland. On his FB, TV indicated he lives in Summerland. I know the McCann relatives have said their parents would not pick up hitch-hikers, but I really have to wonder if they weren't approached for a ride to the Okanagan, and simply being nice folks, they may have thought "oh, what the heck ... we're going there anyway". Sometimes people simply do things that are out of character.

Re the cell phones, I agree with Hazel that seniors need to learn how to use these new-fangled contraptions ;). I have lived in remote and rural areas where the phones go down if the power goes out. A couple of years ago, I bought a relative an emergency phone with 2 accessory panic buttons that can be activated to call 911 or other designated numbers with a pre-recorded message in the event a person is incapacitated for whatever reason. It's just like "Life Alert", but you don't have a monthly plan. I ended up thinking it was such a great thing, I bought one for my own household.

Too bad someone doesn't come up with a similar system that can activate a cell phone with the push of one simple big button. Am going to look into that.

One security idea that I always feel the need to tell people about is their car alarm. Have that remote near you in your home, on your night table, etc. so you can activate your car alarm outside to draw attention to yourself and your home. Criminals don't like alarms that bring heat on them.

and probably the biggest thing to remember ...

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER allow yourself to be taken to Location B where your are now under the perp's control. Put up the fight of your life at Location A because the perp likely doesn't want to kill you. They want something from you, and chances are they will run like the wind at Location A when the situation spins out of their immediate control and before they have accomplished what they set out to do.
 
sillybilly said:
If, as alluded to, TV is the perp, I find his connection to Summerland to be of particular interest. Jeannie Roelfsema was returning to Summerland, the McCanns were planning on going through Okanagan, and TV's ex-wife still lives in Summerland. On his FB, TV indicated he lives in Summerland. I know the McCann relatives have said their parents would not pick up hitch-hikers, but I really have to wonder if they weren't approached for a ride to the Okanagan, and simply being nice folks, they may have thought "oh, what the heck ... we're going there anyway". Sometimes people simply do things that are out of character.

Re the cell phones, I agree with Hazel that seniors need to learn how to use these new-fangled contraptions ;). I have lived in remote and rural areas where the phones go down if the power goes out. A couple of years ago, I bought a relative an emergency phone with 2 accessory panic buttons that can be activated to call 911 or other designated numbers with a pre-recorded message in the event a person is incapacitated for whatever reason. It's just like "Life Alert", but you don't have a monthly plan. I ended up thinking it was such a great thing, I bought one for my own household.

Too bad someone doesn't come up with a similar system that can activate a cell phone with the push of one simple big button. Am going to look into that.

One security idea that I always feel the need to tell people about is their car alarm. Have that remote near you in your home, on your night table, etc. so you can activate your car alarm outside to draw attention to yourself and your home. Criminals don't like alarms that bring heat on them.

and probably the biggest thing to remember ...

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER allow yourself to be taken to Location B where your are now under the perp's control. Put up the fight of your life at Location A because the perp likely doesn't want to kill you. They want something from you, and chances are they will run like the wind at Location A when the situation spins out of their immediate control and before they have accomplished what they set out to do.
Click to expand...

bbm
This is extremely important. Most that get taken to a secondary location do not live to tell about it. Far better to take your chances at the initial point of abduction because if you don't you are not coming back.
 
The family of a missing St. Albert couple aims to attend the next court hearing for Travis Vader, who remains a person of interest in the case.

"I know my daughter hopes that if he sees us, it will shake some sort of human decency out of him. I'm not sure of that," said Bret McCann, son of missing couple Lyle and Marie McCann.

Vader is set to appear in Edmonton court on Aug. 10 on charges unrelated to the disappearance. His lawyer will speak to bail.

But police still have an interest in Vader.

"They're still thinking he has some information that's related to my parents," McCann said, recounting a recent conversation with police.

McCann said his family is encouraged by Mounties' commitment to finding their parents, but the weeks are taking their toll on the family's spirits.

"We're anxious. Time is going by here," said McCann. "They're not giving us any details, but we're still hanging off the statement last week that the investigation is proceeding favourably.

"They've assured us there are certain things they're doing that just take time to mature here."

Mounties have maintained the number of investigators on the case, said RCMP spokeswoman Doris Stapleton.

"Our investigators are still in Edson and they're still following up on tips," she said.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/alberta/2010/08/03/14914146.html
 
Does anyone know the correct surname of the McCanns' daughter who was to have met them at Abbotsford? I've variously seen it spelled Holden and Holder. While I'm familiar with a "Holden" with connections to P.G. and Abbotsford, I would really like to know which name is correct.
 
nickle couch said:
Good questions...

On page three of this thread with the photos, the pictured tow bar is black and shaped just like our Roadmaster Falcon towbar setup. Or it could be the Roadmaster Stowmaster. But ANY brand towbar mechanism is not to be backed up. These are expensive devices, running in the $500-1,000 range for just the tow bar. No matter what the brand. A towbar rated to tow an SUV is an expensive piece of complicated equipment and easily damaged and voids the warranty if backed up. Tow bars are only designed to pull in a forward motion, and not pushed in the backwards motion. These are not like a simple hitch and trailer set up with a tongue and ball.

I use the name *toad* not as a misspelling, but as a common RV term for a towed car on a towbar.

Some foolhardy novice RVers might try backing up a toad vehicle a few inches or feet, but later find out they ruined the tow bar, or even strained the steering mechanism of their car and damaged it by doing so.

(Perhaps why the car was seen driving *slowly* around in some of the posts mentioning that on the previous thread?)
Click to expand...
SNIPPED

If the towbar was damaged by backing, if not at the gas station, then later if it was backed again....would examination of the tow bar on the burned out RV show this?
 
Spyglass said:
SNIPPED

If the towbar was damaged by backing, if not at the gas station, then later if it was backed again....would examination of the tow bar on the burned out RV show this?
Click to expand...

Wow, good question. With all the heat from the fire, I would not know the reaction of the steel, rubber components and clips... or even the tow bar was still attached to the receiver on the motorhome and swivelled up out of the way or just dumped somewhere?
 
nickle couch said:
Wow, good question. With all the heat from the fire, I would not know the reaction of the steel, rubber components and clips... or even the tow bar was still attached to the receiver on the motorhome and swivelled up out of the way or just dumped somewhere?
Click to expand...

I believe there are fire experts that can tell many things from a vehicle fire. I seem to recalll such a fire recently in Eganville, Ontario.Even the way the glass from an SUV is melted (or not melted) can mean certain things.

Strangely enough, even a Space Shuttle was analyzed right here in Canada at the NRC. Neutron beams can reveal details.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 140 more.
Total: 910 (members: 141, guests: 769)

Online statistics

Members online
141
Guests online
769
Total visitors
910
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
605,272
Messages
18,185,079
Members
233,289
Latest member
Bfred1221
Back
Top