Canada - Marie-France Comeau, 37, & Jessica Lloyd, 27, slain, Ont, 2009 & 2010 - #1

[pinkeyesucks]

I remember reading about that movie when it was rumored to be in the works, and the criticism leveled at Laura Prepon (Donna from 'That '70s Show') for taking on the role of Homolka. If my memory serves me correctly, there was a push to ban the movie from airing in Ontario, and possibly even Canada as a whole. I don't know if it ever made it into local theaters, but I think I saw it on the shelf in a movie rental store not long ago. I think it would be interesting to watch, but the case hits a little too close to home and merely reading about the crimes gives me chills.

ETA: I remember being in Toronto while the search was on for the car believed to be the rapist/murderer's. I was fairly young at the time and didn't know a whole lot about the case, but I knew the basics and so, even though I was in the car with my family, it was scary to hear the reports on the radio. If I recall correctly, the description of the car ended up being totally wrong, so the information was (unknowingly) useless.

The movie was released in Ontario, but the ban included any city where the crimes occurred, including Guelph.

CanadaBanned) (in cities not permitted by the parents of victims including Guelph)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424938/
I downloaded it actually because I didn't think it was the sort of movie I wanted any one to profit from. Could not watch it. Funny how you think you want to know the information that is banned, but when it comes right down to it...maybe you don't.

 

[pinkeyesucks]

That emoticon was not put in by me- i cut and paste from the imbd page linked below but forgot the quotation marks, and it must have been a colon bracket in the phrase.- NO DISRESPECT to the families involved.

Sorry for my sloppiness.

 

[antiquegirl]

According to the linked article, LE doesn't have evidence of any links between them WRT rapes in the area, but they're definitely investigating the possibility.

Agree, the poor women in that community were under attack from some twisted men, if true.

Its been a long time since I've read the book about Holmko & Bernardo. Does anyone recall how many rapes took place in the area back then?

(BBM)

When I read The Sun article very early this morning, I was in total shock. As I went to bed, I began to wonder if the actual "relationship" between Williams and Bernardo may not have been exaggerated. As I posted months ago in the Stafford forums, the Toronto Sun is a sensationalistic paper, appealing mostly to "readers" who prefer looking at pictures more than reading in-depth news stories, and being just a rung or two above tabloids like the National Enquirer. This is what The Sun showed last night:

"Now police sources tell the Toronto Sun the two were college “pals” who “partied” together"

During breakfast this morning, I was surprised that CP24's latest coverage of this case didn't even mention Bernardo. The more reputable media are now saying:

"There are also reports police will be checking into a possible connection between Williams and convicted school girl killer Paul Bernardo."

http://www.680news.com/news/nationa...-reportedly-a-university-pal-of-paul-bernardo

There is more caution being used this morning and I have a sneaking suspicion that Sun Media may have jumped the gun a bit here where it concerns the "pals" bit. This wouldn't be the first time. No matter what, the verifiable fact that both these predators attended the same campus at the same time defies the laws of probability - a shocking coincidence.

JMO

 

[Summersolstice]

rsbm
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/entertainment/Williams+family+ties+brother+says/2551107/story.html

From what I have read, the father moved to Canada to work at AECL. The marriage broke up. Mrs. Williams stayed in Deep River and married nuclear scientist Jerry Sovka, who is currently working at a nuclear fusion facility in France. (Jerry Sovka's project in France was to have included Canada, but Canada dropped out. Several other nations are working cooperatively, including Russia, South Korea, France and the U.S.)

The Sovkas moved around quite a bit, with RW eventually sent to UCC and living there while the family was still away. There is no mention of where his brother was during this time. RW was a prefect at UCC, who mentored younger boys.

The Sovkas returned to Canada and settled in Scarborough.

 

[antiquegirl]

The main reason I'm leaning this way is because he caved and confessed so easily.

I think maybe Col Williams was relieved to be confronted at that traffic stop. I'm not sure he himself was comfortable with the extreme way his behavior had escalated.

(Respectfully snipped and BBM)

ITA with most of your post, but wanted to add that Williams did not confess at the traffic stop and we don't know how relieved he was to be stopped. He was not arrested until three days later. I was surprised that he ended up confessing on that Sunday, but it's possible that he was either confronted with irrefutable evidence that gave him little choice, or that LE may have used some "aggressive" tactics to force a confession. My impression on Monday was that he was shown proof that the "jig was up". Frankly, I was more surprised at his seemingly voluntary confession of the four dozen lingerie B & Es, something I doubt LE was previously aware of or connected to him.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

(BBM)

When I read The Sun article very early this morning, I was in total shock. As I went to bed, I began to wonder if the actual "relationship" between Williams and Bernardo may not have been exaggerated. As I posted months ago in the Stafford forums, the Toronto Sun is a sensationalistic paper, appealing mostly to "readers" who prefer looking at pictures more than reading in-depth news stories, and being just a rung or two above tabloids like the National Enquirer. This is what The Sun showed last night:

"Now police sources tell the Toronto Sun the two were college “pals” who “partied” together"

During breakfast this morning, I was surprised that CP24's latest coverage of this case didn't even mention Bernardo. The more reputable media are now saying:

"There are also reports police will be checking into a possible connection between Williams and convicted school girl killer Paul Bernardo."

http://www.680news.com/news/nationa...-reportedly-a-university-pal-of-paul-bernardo

There is more caution being used this morning and I have a sneaking suspicion that Sun Media may have jumped the gun a bit here where it concerns the "pals" bit. This wouldn't be the first time. No matter what, the verifiable fact that both these predators attended the same campus at the same time defies the laws of probability - a shocking coincidence.

JMO

Agree, there doesn't seem to be any evidence at this point to indicate they were friends and a collaboration between the two doesn't seem likely, though Bernardo went on to "recruit" a partner. Both appear to be very controlling. Williams in particular strikes me as a perfectionist as well. As you say, the coincidence is amazing and it will be interesting to see what police discover.

 

[pinkeyesucks]

I just don't know what to think anymore. Intended to live? Doesn't that somehow minimize the crime that was committed?

http://www.mix97.com/news/2010/02/toronto-newspaper-now-says-jessica-lloyd-was-also-asphyxiated/

"The Globe and Mail now reports another of the two women killed in the Quinte area were asphyxiated.

Quoting sources, the Globe says 27-year-old Jessica Lloyd was strangled by her killer as the ultimate crime in a “bizarre escalation” of behaviour. The sources, as reported earlier this week, said 38-year-old Corporal Marie-France Comeau was also asphyxiated. However, detectives believe her death was not intentional and “she was meant to live.”

Colonel Russell Williams is accused of first-degree murder in both cases. He is also charged with two counts of sexual assault stemming from attacks on two women near his Tweed-area cottage, and is under scrutiny in less severe crimes starting with the thefts of women’s underwear dating back to 2006."

Cannot believe the local radio station had the balls to air it that way.

 

[antiquegirl]

I just don't know what to think anymore. Intended to live? Doesn't that somehow minimize the crime that was committed?

http://www.mix97.com/news/2010/02/toronto-newspaper-now-says-jessica-lloyd-was-also-asphyxiated/

"The Globe and Mail now reports another of the two women killed in the Quinte area were asphyxiated.

Quoting sources, the Globe says 27-year-old Jessica Lloyd was strangled by her killer as the ultimate crime in a “bizarre escalation” of behaviour. The sources, as reported earlier this week, said 38-year-old Corporal Marie-France Comeau was also asphyxiated. However, detectives believe her death was not intentional and “she was meant to live.”

Colonel Russell Williams is accused of first-degree murder in both cases. He is also charged with two counts of sexual assault stemming from attacks on two women near his Tweed-area cottage, and is under scrutiny in less severe crimes starting with the thefts of women’s underwear dating back to 2006."

Cannot believe the local radio station had the balls to air it that way.

(BBM)

I don't know what The Globe's implication was and don't think it minimizes the crime in any way. However, IF this (unintentional death) can be proven, the charge for that crime could possibly be reduced from 1st to 2nd Degree Murder.

There is a lot of suspense involved here. Not only is everyone waiting to hear what other crimes this man has committed, but I'm anxiously awaiting news about how this will play out from a legal standpoint. Is he really "singing like a bird" and why? Will RW retain a high-profile attorney? How will he plead? Will it even get to trial?

JMO

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Agree, there doesn't seem to be any evidence at this point to indicate they were friends and a collaboration between the two doesn't seem likely, though Bernardo went on to "recruit" a partner. Both appear to be very controlling. Williams in particular strikes me as a perfectionist as well. As you say, the coincidence is amazing and it will be interesting to see what police discover.

I think the only connection between the accused and Bernardo is that LE learned their lesson when investigating Bernardo and won't make the same mistakes.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/th...akes+during+Williams+probe/2547622/story.html

 

[Sailor Bug]

Bernardo's advice to cops

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/02/11/12845881-qmi.html



Col. Williams book already in the works

It's reported he is on suicide watch

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/02/12/12851256-qmi.html

 

[RubyRed]

Williams and Paul Bernardo were friends

http://www.lfpress.com/news/canada/2010/02/11/12845846.html

This just gets more strange as the story progresses

:sick::sick:

 

[Summersolstice]

(BBM)

I don't know what The Globe's implication was and don't think it minimizes the crime in any way. However, IF this (unintentional death) can be proven, the charge for that crime could possibly be reduced from 1st to 2nd Degree Murder.

There is a lot of suspense involved here. Not only is everyone waiting to hear what other crimes this man has committed, but I'm anxiously awaiting news about how this will play out from a legal standpoint. Is he really "singing like a bird" and why? Will RW retain a high-profile attorney? How will he plead? Will it even get to trial?

JMO

I don't think the charge would be reduced. When someone dies in the commission of a violent crime, it's the planning and execution of that violent crime that makes it first-degree murder.

 

[Summersolstice]

With regard to the PB-RW connection, the police may be floating theories at the moment, trying to see if anyone comes forward to connect the two. The media may be reporting accurately what has been relayed to them.

The copycat or "competition" idea may be what the police think drove one or the other.

Meanwhile, RW is off suicide watch and wearing an orange jumpsuit.

http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/actualites/article/952111

 

[antiquegirl]

I don't think the charge would be reduced. When someone dies in the commission of a violent crime, it's the planning and execution of that violent crime that makes it first-degree murder.

I'm not a lawyer and am not familiar with the intricacies involved, but I do know that 1st degree charges were later reduced to 2nd in the Cecilia Zhang case. The perp had planned and executed the kidnapping for ransom of the little girl and she purportedly died while he tried to muffle her screams.

"Min Chen pleaded guilty to second-degree murder on May 9, 2006."

He was

" ... sentenced to life imprisonment with a chance of parole after 15 years."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecilia_Zhang


Could you be thinking of the laws regarding the death of a victim of abduction? Because in that case, the law states that premeditated or not, a death occurring during a kidnapping automatically results in a charge of first-degree murder, whether deliberate or accidental. Still, in the above Zhang case, Chen was eventually convicted of second-degree. I don't know how that happened. Marie-France C. was not abducted.

More about the distinction from Wikipedia:

"Many jurisdictions divide murder by degrees. The most common divisions are between first and second degree murder. Generally second degree murder is common law murder with first degree being an aggravated form. The aggravating factors that distinguish first degree murder from second degree are first degree murder requires a specific intent to kill and premeditation and deliberation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder


Of course I don't know how this particular case will pan out, but I'm just throwing out a possibility here. I have a feeling that whatever happens with the pleas, Williams will get the book thrown at him and will not be released into society for a very long time, if ever.

JMO

 

[Summersolstice]

I'm not a lawyer and am not familiar with the intricacies involved, but I do know that 1st degree charges were later reduced to 2nd in the Cecilia Zhang case. The perp had planned and executed the kidnapping for ransom of the little girl and she purportedly died while he tried to muffle her screams.

"Min Chen pleaded guilty to second-degree murder on May 9, 2006."

He was

" ... sentenced to life imprisonment with a chance of parole after 15 years."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecilia_Zhang


Could you be thinking of the laws regarding the death of a victim of abduction? Because in that case, the law states that premeditated or not, a death occurring during a kidnapping automatically results in a charge of first-degree murder, whether deliberate or accidental. Still, in the above Zhang case, Chen was eventually convicted of second-degree. I don't know how that happened. Marie-France C. was not abducted.

More about the distinction from Wikipedia:

"Many jurisdictions divide murder by degrees. The most common divisions are between first and second degree murder. Generally second degree murder is common law murder with first degree being an aggravated form. The aggravating factors that distinguish first degree murder from second degree are first degree murder requires a specific intent to kill and premeditation and deliberation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder


Of course I don't know how this particular case will pan out, but I'm just throwing out a possibility here. I have a feeling that whatever happens with the pleas, Williams will get the book thrown at him and will not be released into society for a very long time, if ever.

JMO

A death during a sexual assault with a weapon reduced to second-degree murder? I don't think so. We won't know what happened until the trial, though. If he is found guilty on all the other charges, it should mean a long sentence, as long as Canadian criminals go to jail for such things.

 

[pinkeyesucks]

Interesting point. Throws a bit of a monkey wrench into the works doesn't it. Now I will end up spending the afternoon researching Ontario criminal law....I hate that even when incarcerated the psychos can still toy with us.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

A death during a sexual assault with a weapon reduced to second-degree murder? I don't think so. We won't know what happened until the trial, though. If he is found guilty on all the other charges, it should mean a long sentence, as long as Canadian criminals go to jail for such things.

There may be no trial - if he pleads guilty upfront, it will go directly to sentencing, and charges are reduced all the time to avoid lengthy and expensive trials - the accused pleads to the lesser charge offered by the Crown, thus avoiding going to trial, saving taxpayers' money and helping to unclog the already clogged up judicial system.

Regardless whether he gets 1st degree or 2nd degree, it's an automatic life sentence. When it comes to eligibility for parole, 1st degree carries an automatic no chance for parole for 25 years, for 2nd degree the judge can set the eligibility for parole anywhere between 10 - 25 years, though it doesn't mean that they will get out at that point.

 

[pjgrrrl]

Afternoon all. So today is the day to pay respect to Jess and her family.

I will be attending the afternoon visitation and will take all your condolences with me.

 

[LadyL]

snipped:

"He is a tall, handsome, rugged-looking man, plus the added attraction of being a man in uniform. He could walk into a bar or party and two hours later have a sexy woman walking out with him," Brett Papadakis wrote in an e-mail. "And being a virile man, he could enter again the bar and pick up another woman to ... her.

"I have seen this with my own eyes," the friend insisted. "Russell had a knack for seducing women."

some other new tidbits here:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/02/12/12847576-qmi.html

 

[antiquegirl]

Afternoon all. So today is the day to pay respect to Jess and her family.

I will be attending the afternoon visitation and will take all your condolences with me.

Thank you, PJ. A horrendously sad week-end for Jessica's family, friends, acquaintances, and for all of us involved emotionally.

R.I.P. Jessica​