Cases possibly of interest for the LISK case

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PreciousDust said:
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/lost_girls_a_serial_killers_victims/singleton/
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Is this a dig at WS?

"The usual media circus (including Nancy Grace) ensued, complete with self-styled profilers and would-be amateur Web sleuths who detected important “clues” — just by watching TV! (“I have been watching that interview of the Dr. and observing his body language,” one such ****** wrote about a favorite suspect. “He averts his eyes down and to the left a few times while he is speaking. Isn’t that a sign of deception when someone averts their eyes down and to the left?”)"

BBM
 
I'm only a casual lurker on the LISK threads but not sure why the writer would take a shot at you guys--I can't imagine there are many other places that are discussing the case with this level of detail. Yeah, "down and to the left" is a bit of a crime show cliche, but that's hardly the level of discussion that is usually ongoing. Dunno, the "Web sleuths" thing seems way too cutesy to be coincidental.
 
:floorlaugh: @ ******! Who says that?

ETA: Is that a cuss word? It's censored!
 
Don't lose sleep over it. People take shots at people all the time. Be comfortable/confident in your response and F everyone else.
 
That is funny. Seasoned investigators take body language very seriously. And we do know there are seasoned investigators who post on websleuths. Some are forthcoming re their experience, but not all.
 
I hadn't heard any of this before!

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/lost_girls_a_serial_killers_victims/singleton/

For the most part, however, law enforcement greeted the women’s disappearances with indifference — until they all turned up dead in the same place. It seems it takes a maniac to make an escort’s death really count for something. Kolker — one of those journalists gifted with the ability to lull sources into a false sense of security — quotes chief of detectives Dominick Varrone callously remarking, “Most of them are in the business that they’re in because it’s an easy way to make money, and because they’re greedy.” Later in the same conversation, Varrone and the outgoing police commissioner, Richard Dormer, laughed at the working-class family members of crime victims for “doing their hair and dressing up” to make appeals through the media. Police officials are not the only ones with cavalier attitudes, however. Watching the families of the other four victims weeping together with Shannan’s mother on the day her daughter’s remains were found, Kolker overheard one TV crew member remark, “I can’t believe they’re doing all this for a *advertiser censored*.”
 
I guess some police officials and members of the media would get upset if an arrest was ever acually made. They would feel sympathy for some poor slob sitting in a cell for killing prostitutes. The biggest critics are the ones who frequent prostitues.
 
Hey! Victims families are not exactly innocent either. When it comes down to it; these girls made their own decisions.
 
The article completely cites a lot of things that have been said here. For "amateurs" they sure did use a lot of this boards stuff. Hats off to all involved in the research of this case, petty differences, and things of tht nature put aside.

Hell, if hawk and I can have a 2 hour phone conversation for the "cause" I'm sure everyone else can get along as well.

Keep plugging and excellent job everyone.
 
I don't have a fragile ego I feel the need to protect. My only purpose in being here is to do whatever I am able to help bring justice to these women. Let the "critics" yip and yap to their hearts content. It's meaningless, really.
 
LINative13 said:
Hey! Victims families are not exactly innocent either. When it comes down to it; these girls made their own decisions.
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LIN - May I please educate you for a moment. Sex industry isn't about CHOICE - its about LACK of choice - the majority of women in the sex industry come from poverty, abuse in the home, drug abuse in the home, violence in the home, neglect, abandonment, physical abuse from the caretakers, exposure to unhealthy family dynamics, psychological abuse, physical abuse, ptsd and 70-90% of people in the sex industry have been sexually abused in childhood.

To be prostituted is extremely traumatizing, you are not in school getting an education to be a Ph.d, a doctor, a lawyer. You are in a parallel universe operating on the sidelines and margins of society. You work 6pm to 6am. You don't even see a doctor after your pimp beats you for not making your "quota" that he set for you... You are constantly suffering from PTSD.

CHILDREN age 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14.. are being bought and sold by men for the exchange of money. THIS IS STATUTORY RAPE.

Violence is inherent in the sex industry. Numerous studies show that between 70 percent and 90 percent of children and women who end up in commercial sex were sexually abused prior to entry. No other industry is dependent upon a regular supply of victims of trauma and abuse.


The presence of an adult sex industry increases both the rates of child sexual exploitation and trafficking. It may be true that some women in commercial sex exercised some level of informed choice, had other options to entering and have no histories of familial trauma, neglect or sexual abuse. But, these women are the minority and don’t represent the overwhelming majority of women, girls, boys and transgender youth, for whom the sex industry isn’t about choice but lack of choice. **
 
LINative13 said:
Hey! Victims families are not exactly innocent either. When it comes down to it; these girls made their own decisions.
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LIN - please inform me where it states that these commercially sexually exploited women and children have a CHOICE to be prostituted. They come from poor zip codes, inter-generational cycles of poverty and lack of education. Inter-generational cycles of substance abuse and 70-90% of sexually exploited children have been sexually traumatized, physically violated or psychologically traumatized in their childhood.

Women and children who are prostituted do not have financial resources to get an education.
Therefore, they have a LACK of choices. THOUSANDS of girls who have been prostituted do not even have a high school degree and if they are lucky enough to get OUT of "the life" they need help in studying for their G.E.D., but many have been beaten in the head so badly they have ptsd that inhibits them from a normal "healthy" problem solving life. They need long term mental health treatment to heal from the trauma of being in the commercial sex exploited business of being prostituted. They need a safe house to live in while they heal, as they come from families of origin that can not sustain any kind of healthy environment for the sexually exploited girl to heal. Many of the girls that are prostituted met sexual trauma in their family of origin.

EDITORIAL
Children in Need of Safe Harbor


Published: September 15, 2007

Gov. Eliot Spitzer of New York and his colleagues in the State Legislature got deserved kudos earlier this year for passing a law that provides aid and protection to victims who are smuggled into this country and forced to work as sex slaves. Unfortunately, the sex trafficking law did nothing to protect the growing numbers of American-born children, as young as 12 or 13, who are forced into prostitution by street pimps.

During the last term, the Legislature failed to pass a bill that would have provided those protections. Under the Safe Harbor Act, children who are too young to legally consent to sex would no longer be charged with prostitution and would no longer be treated as criminals. The courts would instead be required to provide them with counseling, medical care and the long-term shelter they need to reclaim their lives.

As might be expected, sexually exploited children come from society’s most troubled families. A study ordered by the Legislature estimated that about 85 percent of the state’s exploited children are from families that had been involved with the child welfare system, while in New York City, three-quarters of the children had been placed in foster homes.


Prosecutors opposed the Safe Harbor Act, arguing that the threat of detention was necessary to force the children to testify against the pimps. But these are battered, terrorized children who are typically in no condition to confront their exploiters in court. By threatening to lock them up, we deepen their distrust of an adult world that has brutalized and mistreated them.

Other opponents argue that the Legislature has underestimated how much the law’s requirements for counseling and other services will cost the state and failed to clarify certain legal technicalities. But these issues can be resolved and should not prevent Governor Spitzer and legislators from reaching agreement on an essential bill that provides help and protection for the state’s most vulnerable children.
 
LINative13 said:
Hey! Victims families are not exactly innocent either. When it comes down to it; these girls made their own decisions.
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Please tell me LIN - - -

When you go to your job - does your boss keep all your identification, does your boss keep ALL your money???, deny you to see a doctor, deny you to get an education, deny you to stay home from work cuz you feel sick cuz some customer beat the crap out of you the night before...and felt he had the RIGHT to beat you cuz he bought you from your boss...

who would CHOOSE to be a prostitute...if you had ANY other choice....


IMAGINE….

being wholly dependent on a person who mistreats you, beats you – forces you to be raped night after night by strangers and then KEEPS ALL YOUR MONEY

IMAGINE….

A man who abuses you and makes money off you and takes your money and beats you if you don’t make the quota that HE set…..for you

to be raped nightly again and again by strangers…

and then the pimp takes all THAT money and beats you regularly.

The pimp makes you call him “daddy” all the while NEVER giving you a safe home.


IMAGINE…..

Having all your identification taken away and being forced to use a totally different name that is not your own.


IMAGINE…..

Being beaten for not making enough money in one night – all the while being forced to make that money by having sex with strangers one after another every night night after night week after week month after month


IMAGINE…..

Getting a tattoo on your forehead, back, neck, arm or g-e-n-i-t-a-l-s or breasts of the name of your pimp who abuses you on a daily basis.


IMAGINE …

Being beaten by a gang of pimps because you looked a pimp in the eye who was not your “daddy”


IMAGINE

Being beaten by your pimp because you were hiding some of your own earnings while planning to escape…..


IMAGINE…..

Having to have sex with a police officer instead of getting arrested and then getting arrested anyway.


IMAGINE….

Being 12 years old and forced to have sex on a nightly basis and then arrested by a cop and sent to Riker’s Island for juveniles and raped in jail. All the while the pimp NEVER gets prosecuted, nor do the johns who have created this demand for sexual exploitation of children.

All the while the pimp NEVER makes bail for you, even though he has earned THOUSANDS if not hundreds of thousands of dollars off you.

IMAGINE.....

coming from a family of origin where your mother, father, sibling, uncle, friend of mother or father sexually violated you as a child and you lost all your self esteem from this violation. Imagine having a horrible childhood of alcoholic abusive parents and violence creating a lack of self esteem and meeting up as a young teen ager with a man in his 30's who promises you that he will give you everything you never got in childhood like love......and then he rapes you and forces you into "the life"

 
And considering these predators prey on women still in their teens. Researchers say the human brain doesn't reach full maturity until the mid 20's or so.
I know I STILL make some pretty stupid choices and my birthday candles come in double packs of 20!
 
In addition to the above, the girls are told if they tell anyone their whole family will be killed. This happened to a girl from the Bx. She finally told someone at school. The school notified the police. They family was relocated before the arrest were made. They were from the Islands. These crimes should carry a life sentence. Thry are the lowest forms of life.
 
http://www.newsday.com/opinion/letters/letter-burke-s-style-at-scpd-gets-results-1.5622004

I have never seen anything like this! ever! Is newsday checking to make sure the letters are coming from who they say they are? first the detective's letter to the public commenting on an active investigation and now this one? Is this person defending the Chief and supporting his "alleged" decision to go against police procedure? that is how I interpreted it! what is going on? is this their way of trying to keep the public calm?
 
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