Casey Not Guilty?

[nort]

The question still is, imo, why put duct tape on a dead body?

We will never know..

 

[nort]

In the 48 hrs mystery the victim was found to be murdered at the home after tasering and fighting and I believe she was strangled from behind. No cause of death could be determined so this was the suspects story. The duct tape took place after the fact..Could not tell you why.

 

[ynotdivein]

I can only think of two possible reasons that the perpetrator would have applied duct tape to Caylee AFTER her death, and neither of them leads directly to a not-guilty verdict...

1. Duct tape applied shortly after death out of a misplaced belief that this will stop the body from purging fluids.

2. Duct tape applied sometime after death in hopes that if body is found, duct tape will lead to an assumption of kidnapping by SOD.

IMO, any pre-mortem application of duct tape to Caylee by KC requires either a guilty verdict, or SOD to have applied said tape. And it seems that the defense is running out of SODs...

 

[kashell]

2. Duct tape applied sometime after death in hopes that if body is found, duct tape will lead to an assumption of kidnapping by SOD.

That is what I have always thought would be the defense, that Caylee died due to an accident and KC panicked and tried to cover it up. However, I'm thinking the opportunity to use that has expired long long ago.

 

[ynotdivein]

That is what I have always thought would be the defense, that Caylee died due to an accident and KC panicked and tried to cover it up. However, I'm thinking the opportunity to use that has expired long long ago.

Right with you there. But good god, to panic and in that panic, place three long strips of duct tape on the sweet face of your dead child? Plus a heart-shaped sticker on top?

I do not envy this eventual jury one bit. In my braver moments, I do not doubt their eventual verdict, nor HHJP's decision when it comes down.

 

[Gaia713]

Just Jayla you have a great memory and I respect you for being able to find this quote to support it! Did you notice, though, that it is not a quote from Dr G? As a matter of fact, the news article give no attribute to the statement. They never say from whom they received this information. I think you may have found the source of the urban legend. . . The article also states, "The remains that were found were not just bones. There was tissue left, which apparently is what the duct tape was stuck to, and hair." I think this was an early (Dec 12), hurried report that was inaccurate. IIRC this was long before any of Dr G's statements or findings were released. I don't even know if she had seen the remains at this early date.

You are 100% correct that she says the tape was placed "peri-mortem" and there is great discussion as to exactly what that means. Literally, I guess it means near the time of death ~ but how near? Does it mean a period to include both before and after her death? I am sure Casey's defense team will ask Dr G these questions at trial. . . and we probably won't know exactly what she meant until then. The answer may be one that none of us like. It may very well be that Dr G does not know ~ but at least she will be able to explain why she knows it was near the time of death.

(IIRC perimortem means around the time of death. It could be when she was alive or right after she was dead. It's not conclusively pre or post-mortem. Here's where common sense comes in. When does it make sense to put duct tape over a mandible of a DEAD person - to keep the jaw attached?

 

[logicalgirl]

That is what I have always thought would be the defense, that Caylee died due to an accident and KC panicked and tried to cover it up. However, I'm thinking the opportunity to use that has expired long long ago.

I agree - two years ago.

 

[marspiter]

The question still is, imo, why put duct tape on a dead body?

Taken from Florida Supreme Court decision on Huck v. Florida.

"More importantly, the assertion that Mr. Huck taped the victim's eyes and mouth shut after she died is not particularly reasonable. The only logical reason to tape her eyes and mouth shut would have been to prevent her from seeing, talking, screaming for help, or breathing while she was alive. There is no logical or reasonable purpose for taping a person's eyes and mouth shut after she is dead."

Just tossing this out here and sneaking away real quick. :innocent:

 

[nort]

I agree there is no logical reason but it happened in the case I was referring to.

 

[TinaD]

That is what I have always thought would be the defense, that Caylee died due to an accident and KC panicked and tried to cover it up. However, I'm thinking the opportunity to use that has expired long long ago.

But how could the defense raise this as a possibility without KC taking the stand and testifying to it? Because we all know that won't happen!

 

[sleutherontheside]

Taken from Florida Supreme Court decision on Huck v. Florida.

"More importantly, the assertion that Mr. Huck taped the victim's eyes and mouth shut after she died is not particularly reasonable. The only logical reason to tape her eyes and mouth shut would have been to prevent her from seeing, talking, screaming for help, or breathing while she was alive. There is no logical or reasonable purpose for taping a person's eyes and mouth shut after she is dead."

Just tossing this out here and sneaking away real quick. :innocent:

I was literally reading another reference to the Huck case when you posted. I am intrigued by the "similarities" in KC's case....though not really similar. KWIM??

http://www.denverda.org/DNA_Documents/Huck.pdf




The medical examiner was unable to determine the exact time of death. Because of the condition of the body, he testified that the death could have occurred at any time between the early morning hours of July 20th and the time the body was found.

They dated for a while, but broke up because, according to Mr. Huck, the victim slept with his roommate. Although they were no longer a couple, Mr. Huck continued to have sex with the victim, most recently on July 11, 2000, nine days before she disappeared. Think creating reasonable doubt with a few of KC's beaus.


After the interview concluded, the following conversation took place, according to the police investigator, in the investigator's car while
they were traveling to one of Mr. Huck's residences
He paused and he said, "My position is I didn't do it."
: Think "that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

At Mr. Huck's parents' house an investigator recovered some black spline from a shelving unit in the garage Think duct tape found in Anthony's garage.

The bags recovered from Mr. Huck's kitchen and the bags recovered from the victim's body were produced in the same lane, by the same employee, in the month of June, 2000. Think garbage bags found at Anthony home.

At trial the medical examiner testified that because of the condition of the body, he was not "one hundred percent" certain of the cause of death. In his opinion, however, the victim died "within a reasonable degree of probability" from asphyxia either by the tape on her nose and mouth or from drowning.

Mr. Huck argues that he presented at least five reasonable hypotheses of innocence that the State failed to rebut

The hair evidence was the result of a secondary transfer and/or placed there at some earlier occasion. Think new "experts from Netherlands.

An interesting read........


ETA from my link above....

The medical examiner in the present case testified that to determine the cause of death, it is critical to learn the circumstances in which the body is discovered, and he did just that. To pick the most obvious example, the fact that the body was found washed ashore in the river was a circumstance that the medical examiner learned that helped to lead him to conclude that the victim may have been drowned. In addition to the circumstances in which the body was discovered, the medical examiner personally observed the external condition of the victim’s body, noting that the legs and arms were bound, the eyes were taped and the neck contained tape around it that had probably slipped down from being around the mouth. Connected to the body by spline were ruptured plastic bags, giving rise to a reasonable inference that the body had been weighted down in the water. These observations supported his conclusions, and provided a sufficient predicate to render his opinions regarding the cause and manner of death.

When asked about specific medical causes on cross-examination, the medical
examiner conceded that such causes, undetectable by autopsy, were possible but not likely, given the victim’s age, health and lack of medical history.


The Florida Supreme Court has held that "expert medical testimony as to the cause of death need not be
stated with reasonable certainty in a homicide prosecution and is competent if the expert can
show that, in his opinion, the occurrence could cause death or that the occurrence might have
or probably did cause death." Very important IMO.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I have 100% faith that the SA will be able to lay out the case against Casey Anthony so that the jury will have no doubt in their minds that Caylee died of a ruthless homicide.

As much as the SA has to prove to a jury that Casey is guilty, I think the defense is going to have to explain away a lot of the evidence (forensic, circumstancial, etc...) that the SA will present to the jury. The jury isn't just going to take the defenses whining about there being no "cause of death" as proof that Caylee was not murdered. It actually makes the defense seem as heartless as the murderer herself when they make a claim that because there is no "cause of death" that they can't be sure that a homicide has taken place. A two-year-old doesn't just magically end up completely skeletonized, wrapped up in not one, but two trash bags and a laundry bag, in a swamp-like area in Florida due to "natural causes." Did I mention the duct tape?

I don't see how they could possibly get away with trying to explain Caylee's death away by claiming an accident? There is no way they can rationally explain away the duct tape around Caylee's airwaves. I'm sorry!!

I am 99.9% sure that Casey will be convicted of 1st degree murder and get LWOP. She has as good a chance as any to get the Death Penalty though.

 

[nort]

But how could the defense raise this as a possibility without KC taking the stand and testifying to it? Because we all know that won't happen!

I thought that too based on posts I read here but according to our legal thread she would not have to do that. I posed the question months ago.

 

[nort]

I hope it goes how we see it..I will be very disappointed in our legal system should she get away with this. I was on the edge over the OJ ordeal but this would certainly push me completely over.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I hope it goes how we see it..I will be very disappointed in our legal system should she get away with this. I was on the edge over the OJ ordeal but this would certainly push me completely over.

There definitely needs to be some serious reform in the legal system. The way finances have been handled (ABC blood money) the attorneys being allowed to lie, drop in and out when it's convenient (to sell books), so many wrong, horrible things that need to be addressed. I hope someone has the gall to do it. The way we keep electing lawyers to run our society, I don' have high hopes though. Jmo

 

[Turnadot]

That is what I have always thought would be the defense, that Caylee died due to an accident and KC panicked and tried to cover it up. However, I'm thinking the opportunity to use that has expired long long ago.

KC was given the chance to grasp that help line, so to speak, during the Universal interview. LE gave her plenty of opportunity to say it was an accident and she panicked. KC stuck to her lies though, so I agree that 'offer' expired a long time ago, imo, after Universal.

I *might* have believed it back then if she'd claimed it was an accident, when she was with LE at Universal or right after Caylee was found, but there's no way I'd believe it now. And I can't imagine a jury would either. Not after all this time - all the lies and lack of emotion from KC when talking about Caylee.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

KC was given the chance to grasp that help line, so to speak, during the Universal interview. LE gave her plenty of opportunity to say it was an accident and she panicked. KC stuck to her lies though, so I agree that 'offer' expired a long time ago, imo, after Universal.

I *might* have believed it back then if she'd claimed it was an accident, when she was with LE at Universal or right after Caylee was found, but there's no way I'd believe it now. And I can't imagine a jury would either. Not after all this time - all the lies and lack of emotion from KC when talking about Caylee.

I agree. She knows she would have had a chance if it was an accident - drowning, etc. She could have gotten off scot-free. She had to lie and make up the nonsense stories because if LE found the body, they'd find proof she was murdered. She was morbidly lucky that Caylee was found in the condition she was. This is why she needs the DP imo.

 

[Gaia713]

I have 100% faith that the SA will be able to lay out the case against Casey Anthony so that the jury will have no doubt in their minds that Caylee died of a ruthless homicide.

As much as the SA has to prove to a jury that Casey is guilty, I think the defense is going to have to explain away a lot of the evidence (forensic, circumstancial, etc...) that the SA will present to the jury. The jury isn't just going to take the defenses whining about there being no "cause of death" as proof that Caylee was not murdered. It actually makes the defense seem as heartless as the murderer herself when they make a claim that because there is no "cause of death" that they can't be sure that a homicide has taken place. A two-year-old doesn't just magically end up completely skeletonized, wrapped up in not one, but two trash bags and a laundry bag, in a swamp-like area in Florida due to "natural causes." Did I mention the duct tape?

I don't see how they could possibly get away with trying to explain Caylee's death away by claiming an accident? There is no way they can rationally explain away the duct tape around Caylee's airwaves. I'm sorry!!

I am 99.9% sure that Casey will be convicted of 1st degree murder and get LWOP. She has as good a chance as any to get the Death Penalty though.

Think Scott Peterson. The defense was able to establish doubt on some evidence, but he could NEVER get past the fact that Laci's body washed up within a couple of miles of where Scott placed himself.

The defense will have to get past the fact that the last known person to see Caylee alive was her mother. That's a HUGE hurdle for any defense. Everything else is icing on the cake imo

 

[ynotdivein]

I agree. She knows she would have had a chance if it was an accident - drowning, etc. She could have gotten off scot-free. She had to lie and make up the nonsense stories because if LE found the body, they'd find proof she was murdered. She was morbidly lucky that Caylee was found in the condition she was. This is why she needs the DP imo.

Would she have had a chance if, right from go, she had said, yes it was an accident and then I freaked out and covered her mouth with duct tape (because I was so freaked out) and bagged her up (because I was so freaked out) and kept her in my trunk (because I was so freaked out) and then threw her in the swamp so it looked like she was abducted by Some Other Dude (because I was so freaked out), and then I went and partied my booty off and robbed my friends and bought some bras and got a tattoo... BECAUSE I WAS SO FREAKED OUT.

(ETA: Horace, not directed at you or your opinion--just your point about "if she said it was an accident right up front" got me thinking down some rabbit trails that all seem to end up in a less-than-compelling "because I was so freaked out!" defense.... Fortunately, we likely won't be subjected to this defense at trial... I hope...)

 

[Snaz]

I'm not sure sure KC would have gotten off scot-free, even if early on she had claimed Caylee died because of an accident.

Caylee was a minor child in HER care, regardless of the accident. I would hope she would still have had to answer for her death in some fashion. And she may very well have still been charged with child neglect, so I'm not thinking she would have walked away scot-free.

JMO