Cause of Death - Charles and Braden Powell **Warning-Graphic Thread**

[Melanie]

From the videos, the bodies were brought out on stretchers and still seemed to be "intact". In other words, they were not just bones under the blankets.

That leads me to think that the house was doused around the inside edges, by the time they got to the bodies, the fire had not reached them completely. Just guessing here.

That's what I'm thinking (after seeing the photos). Heat rises, as do flames -- always looking for the next thing to burn. I'm not a fire expert, but am recalling from what I've read. Plus the fire department was there rather quickly -- so my assumption is the flames spread upward and outward -- while the bodies were found in the middle of a room.

Bless the boys - this is so very difficult to talk about.

MOO

Mel

 

[menmo]

What a cowardly, selfish deed. Josh didn't love his children, they were his property, much like I think he thought of Susan.
I've read some people say they have no words, but as for me, I have plenty I have said in my head to the evil one and his evil dad.
You know how you get that dreaded call in the middle of the night that your loved one has passed? That's the sinking feeling I felt when I read this on one of the other threads. An unbelievable, denying, wanting to blink and it not be real feeling.
I cannot quit thinking of how the state put those children in the evil one's control.......worse than a lions den. As much as I don't like it when people sue others at the drop of the hat, I do hope that the Cox's will consider suing whatever agency decided that the children could visit in Josh's home. Something has to be done to save other kids that are in danger right now.

God Bless the Cox family and the all the others that stood firmly behind them to try and save their beautiful grandsons.

ETA I hope this is a lesson learned by all that when people are fearful of children coming to harm around certain individuals they aren't just making it up. It happens. It's real. Above all children should always be protected regardless of parents wishes!
MOO

 

[mamamia54]

Oh I have plenty of words and alot of time to put them all into one posting, but it's taken me this long to attempt to digest this ridiculous monsters actions. It almost shakes my faith, it honestly does.

 

[Paige SC]

Have the complete autopsy results been released along with positive identification?

Yes, they have been released along with the names.

 

[mysteriew]

I'm having computer problems so when I heard about this I couldn't get online. I was just in shock. I wondered if it wouldn't end with JP committing suicide, but I thought the boys were protected, at least for now by the Cox's having visitation and only supervised visitation with JP. But I thought that the supervised visitation would be at a neutral place, an office or park or somewhere. I had never thought that supervised visitation would happen at an uncontrolled location like the parents home.

Hearing that not only was there a fire and an explosion but that the boys also suffered "chop" injuries I just kept hearing JP telling the court what a good father he was. How his first thought was always for the welfare of the boys. And I just want to scream at him...... how is this supposed to be for the boys welfare? Is this what a "good father" would do?

In the end I can only take solace in one thought, a thought I wish I could have expressed to JP. In every religion I have known, evil people are always separated from the good. So he- in killing his wife and his children, he has pretty much guarenteed that he will be separated from them for an eternity.

 

[tiredblondy]

Still yet, the bodies weren't recovered until the house had *completely* burned and even if the tissue from the lungs survived the billowing flames, how did the external skin survive it? (re: the injuries inflicted from the hatchet.) Unless of course, determination was made by markings on the skeleton/skull. And if that were the case, one would think smoke inhalation would be a non issue.

The chops would have stunned them, maybe knocked them unconscious. Then they would have died as a result of the smoke inhalation.

 

[Paige SC]

The chops would have stunned them, maybe knocked them unconscious. Then they would have died as a result of the smoke inhalation.

I understand all of that. We are discussing how the bodies remained in tact enough to make the determinations considering the magnitude of the explosion / inferno

 

[mysteriew]

The chops would have stunned them, maybe knocked them unconscious. Then they would have died as a result of the smoke inhalation.

They are describing the injuries as "chop" injuries from a hatchet. A hatchet has one sharp side and one blunt side. I am wondering if perhaps he used the blunt side on the boys instead of the sharp side. Anybody know if that is what happened?

 

[elfie]

Yes, they have been released along with the names.

Just heartbreaking.

 

[Magdalyn]

Still yet, the bodies weren't recovered until the house had *completely* burned and even if the tissue from the lungs survived the billowing flames, how did the external skin survive it? (re: the injuries inflicted from the hatchet.) Unless of course, determination was made by markings on the skeleton/skull. And if that were the case, one would think smoke inhalation would be a non issue.

A hatchet wound could go to the bone and not be fatal so long as it didn't sever an artery or the spinal cord, IMO, or at the very least, not be the thing that ultimately killed them. That they knew one boy sustained a chop wound to the head ... well, I'm pretty sure that went to the skull considering how close to the surface the skull is.

The neck has musculature and tendons beneath the skin that could have survived the fire (as they take longer to burn), or survived enough in it's burnt state to show an unnaturally clean, deep cut/slice. Also, the collar bone or underside of jaw could show chop wounds and still indicate the hatchet struck in the neck area.

I'm not sure what we're debating exactly, to be honest. Obviously, wherever they were in the house in relation to the fuel used and the hottest point of the fire, however the fire burned, whatever exploded or didn't explode, whatever accelerant was used, the facts are the ME had sufficient bodily structures and tissues to make the COD determination, and also to determine where chop wounds were inflicted. Therefore, no matter how horrific the fire was/looked, how long it burned with the bodies within the house, the heat level wasn't 'crematorium' heat level. If it had been, in 30-45 minutes, the boys would have been completely incinerated. Since they were not incinerated, the heat level had to have been such that some tissues (tendons, musculature) survived/were present, even in a burnt state, and still told a clear story. :twocents:

 

[JDB]

I understand all of that. We are discussing how the bodies remained in tact enough to make the determinations considering the magnitude of the explosion / inferno

If the explosion was outward and where they found the bodies that would be the reason why .

 

[indicat]

I understand all of that. We are discussing how the bodies remained in tact enough to make the determinations considering the magnitude of the explosion / inferno

All these questions we have would be answered in the full autopsy report. I wonder when they will be released or if they will be.

 

[sherbetjello]

Was his cousin in TX the first to notify 911 or was it the visit supervisor?

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53451811-78/leach-powell-josh-family.html.csp

If someone has the presser video from yesterday handy, they said that fire and police were dispached from a call placed from the cousin. That's why when neighbors called to report the fire they were confused on how they were already in route.

 

[jjenny]

If someone has the presser video from yesterday handy, they said that fire and police were dispached from a call placed from the cousin. That's why when neighbors called to report the fire they were confused on how they were already in route.

But the cousin would have no way of knowing there was a fire (because his e-mails and voice messages released so far said nothing about the fire), so am not sure how that makes sense. They are planning to release 911 calls today, I believe, so we will find out.

 

[Paige SC]

A hatchet wound could go to the bone and not be fatal so long as it didn't sever an artery or the spinal cord, IMO, or at the very least, not be the thing that ultimately killed them. That they knew one boy sustained a chop wound to the head ... well, I'm pretty sure that went to the skull considering how close to the surface the skull is.

The neck has musculature and tendons beneath the skin that could have survived the fire (as they take longer to burn), or survived enough in it's burnt state to show an unnaturally clean, deep cut/slice. Also, the collar bone or underside of jaw could show chop wounds and still indicate the hatchet struck in the neck area.

I'm not sure what we're debating exactly, to be honest. Obviously, wherever they were in the house in relation to the fuel used and the hottest point of the fire, however the fire burned, whatever exploded or didn't explode, whatever accelerant was used, the facts are the ME had sufficient bodily structures and tissues to make the COD determination, and also to determine where chop wounds were inflicted. Therefore, no matter how horrific the fire was/looked, how long it burned with the bodies within the house, the heat level wasn't 'crematorium' heat level. If it had been, in 30-45 minutes, the boys would have been completely incinerated. Since they were not incinerated, the heat level had to have been such that some tissues (tendons, musculature) survived/were present, even in a burnt state, and still told a clear story. :twocents:

Indeed. The fact still remains there was an explosion, the house was reported as having actually levitated before imploding after the initial explosion, the structure was burned BEYOND the frame and the bodies were inside at extremely high temps for a long period of time. Regardless of how hot, a house completely engulfed in flames is freaking HOT. I imagine those babies didn't weigh more than 50 lbs each and aside from soft tissue, the fact there was anything at ALL left of their little bodies simply blows my mind. Period. The end.

 

[Magdalyn]

They are describing the injuries as "chop" injuries from a hatchet. A hatchet has one sharp side and one blunt side. I am wondering if perhaps he used the blunt side on the boys instead of the sharp side. Anybody know if that is what happened?

If it was the blunt end, I'd think the wounds would have indicated 'blunt force trauma' and not a 'chop wounds'. But I don't know...

 

[sherbetjello]

But the cousin would have no way of knowing there was a fire (because his e-mails and voice messages released so far said nothing about the fire), so am not sure how that makes sense. They are planning to release 911 calls today, I believe, so we will find out.

They are out there already, CNN has played a few. His cousin either got an email or a text which he responded to right away, but that's the news I've heard. Let me get on a real computer and search for it.

 

[jjenny]

If it was the blunt end, I'd think the wounds would have indicated 'blunt force trauma' and not a 'chop wounds'. But I don't know...

I think that's accurate.

 

[Paige SC]

But the cousin would have no way of knowing there was a fire (because his e-mails and voice messages released so far said nothing about the fire), so am not sure how that makes sense. They are planning to release 911 calls today, I believe, so we will find out.

See, this is the stuff that makes no sense. One would assume the case worker would have been the very first person to contact 911 since she was up front and center, real time. Either that or her supervisor. Crazy.

 

[jjenny]

They are out there already, CNN has played a few. His cousin either got an email or a text which he responded to right away, but that's the news I've heard. Let me get on a real computer and search for it.

They released the voice mail JP left for his relative, I haven't heard the 911 calls about the fire. Who made the first 911 call?