Cause of Death - Charles and Braden Powell **Warning-Graphic Thread**

[mck16]

Thanks for responding to my post.

Do you think LE knows 100% sure it was JP's body? Do you think LE has even considered this idea?

I haven't seen answer funeral arrangements for him. I did see where they have changed locations for the boy's funerals due to needing larger place.

I think it would be easy to identify the boys because they were children, but I would think the cops would absolutely want to identify the adult body. But, I have not heard anything about that. I think it is strange too that not one word has been published or reported as to funeral arrangements or claiming his body. I would think the press would be all over that. Maybe they are keeping it a secret because they don't want any public displays of the hate everyone feels for him.

I couldn't live near that house knowing it was once inhabited by the devil. jmo

 

[krimekat]

Susan's parents on NG right now . . .

www.rentadrone.tv/hln-live-stream-feed/

 

[Sharai]

But even if he called them in one by one, the first one had to scream, which would have brought in the second. He had to be a monster to do all this. I guess desperation can do things to a person, but sometime, somewhere, somehow if a person is sane, they would wake up and say, "WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING"? Apparently he didn't and apparently the insanity just took over.

Individuals who are incapable of making and/or sustaining any significant positive change; who have little to no emotional and/or spiritual depth; and have no insight nor ability to develop insight into the affect their behavior negatively impacts others most likely have a pathological personality disorder. JP repeatedly exhibited these traits and many others, as does his father. We as a society need to become so familiar with the character traits of such individuals so that when they enter our lives their disorder is obvious and our natural inclination will be to remove ourselves from their presence and inform others of our observations. This knowledge needs to permeate our society such that mental health professionals, law enforcement, and those within the justice system can easily identify and protect the innocent. JP's disordered mind was evident to most who participate on this blog. It boggles my mind that the court system and/or child protective services did not readily identify the danger and take steps to protect these precious little boys from their pathological father. The horror they must have endured in the final moments ought to be a catalyst for change within the agencies responsible for allowing visitation. With the CA case, the need for a GAL was obvious. It is my understanding that the boys had a GAL. If so, apparently there needs to be more in-depth training for recognizing, identifying, and inhibiting the dangerous actions of pathological individuals such as JP. It is time to make some changes within a system (with all due respect) that is ignorant of the brain functioning of pathologically disordered individuals. JP's behavior is indicative of his disordered brain functioning. This does not excuse his actions it merely identifies his dysfunction. Who takes an ax to the sweet little necks of a 7 and 4 year old boy, in the presence of one another and then as they bleed out sets the house on fire? A pathological individual whom has been observed displaying numerous characteristics for the past two years of having a pathological mind, that's who. God help us to wake up to the reality of the presence of evil within our world and enable us to learn how and then provide adequate protection for the innocent. Shalom, Sharai

 

[Sharai]

Yes, clearly very calculated to the last little detail, such as telling people to turn utilities off. Although why in the world he was worried about utilities is beyond my understanding, but maybe he was obsessed with utility bills while alive and couldn't let go?

It is odd that he was concerned about his utilities in light of his disregard for property and human life. Perhaps its code for something else, or an action of his fake personia of being a caring responsable individual. I am wondering about the money he withdrew the day before, too. What is that about? Why the need for money if he was planning on committing suicide. Donating the boys books and toys to charity is diabolical. He knew the day before that they wouldn't be needing them and gave them to charity, what an ironically diabolical action. The B-turd.

 

[Magdalyn]

There's no reason they wouldn't have JP's dental records by now, IMO. (I'm a former dental assistant...I haven't worked in a practice, that I know of, where we to deal with ID'ing a patient while I was employed there, but in training, all the charting we do of unique dentition and existing restorations--well, we know that's one of many reasons we do it.)

If there were lungs left to determine cause of death being CO poisoning, his teeth survived the fire. Any dental work would still be there (crowns/root canals/posts/fillings) and even if he had no dental work, x-rays from routine dental cleanings would be easy to match up. Characteristics of untouched virgin teeth and how they are situated in your jaw, how wisdom teeth lay, if you only have one wisdom tooth or none, your front tooth his kind of crooked or chipped, etc, all are very person specific. Many times, dental x-rays and records can be pretty instantly electronically sent if the DDS is not local, records (with restorations size, shape, and location drawn out) can be faxed, and if the DDS is not electronically able, there's always Fed Ex overnight. If no records whatsoever, they can match teeth with pictures of the person showing teeth. The ME can get those online of JP. Your teeth are kinda like snowflakes and fingerprints in their uniqueness.

here's some info:

http://www.forensicsciencetechnician.org/8-body-parts-forensic-scientists-use-to-id-a-body/

http://www.crimemuseum.org/library/forensics/postmortemidentification.html

I'll add more links if I find them.

I'm not surprised we're not hearing about JPs funeral. Ryan Brunn killed himself his second day into his lifetime prison sentence after confessing he sexually molested, stabbed and killed Jorelys by---well, that's neither her nor there. Anyway, the funeral arrangements were kept very quiet until after the funeral was over. If I had that many people passionately hating on my high profile child murdering relative, I'd keep the funeral arrangements on the down-low/private too.

Off topic, but I honestly think we'll find the $7000 went to his sociopath training Papa for his Pukey Pedophile Defense Fund. uke:

As far as how a bankruptcy filing, unemployed JP got $7000, don't 2 or 3 of his adult but living at home siblings get some sort of disability checks? I wonder if he 'managed' those funds and that was some of it, or if he skimmed from those funds since Papa was busy in prison... :waitasec:

 

[Magdalyn]

It seems it's also possible to obtain fingerprints and palm prints from burnt bodies. Fingerprints can usually be turned around in 24 hours.

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/MicrosilDecomposedFingerprint.html

http://www.bleaching-dental.com/articles/fingerprints_and_human_identification.html

When an individual is burned to death, the body will usually exhibit clenched hands. Clenching of the hands is a natural reaction that tends to protect the friction ridge detail on the fingers and possible residual prints left by the victim. Instead of forcing the fingers open, the tendon on the inside of the fingers should be cut and the fingers gently straightened. It may also be necessary to remove the fingers from the hand for examination. At this point, photography is advised to capture any ridge detail that may be present on the fingers. Hardened and loose friction skin ay be twisted off the finger, while epidermal skin that has lifted off the dermis but is still attached to the hand should be removed using forceps and curved Metzenbaum scissors for recording purposes.

 

[New1]

I have a different take on the reason he tried to kill them with the hatchet. I don't think anyone will agree with me, but here's my thoughts on it. In his own sick mind, he loved those boys. That is why he killed Susan so she couldn't take his boys away. Remember, she was planning to divorce him? He tried to kill them or knock them out so they wouldn't feel the flames of the fire he knew he was going to ignite. This was his way of making their deaths less painful and quicker, only it didn't work. The blows he inflicted didn't kill them, but they might have been unconscious while they died of smoke inhalation. I hope they were.

Don't take this wrong. I am in no way excusing what this hellish monster did, but what other reason could there have been to try to kill them BEFORE the house was lit on fire? The fire would have killed them, so why attack them with a hatchet first?

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Children have fire safety in school/daycare and are taught to get out if they smell smoke or gas or if there is a fire.

These boys were old enough to try to get out. IMO, Josh used the hatchet to prevent this. Not because he was concerned about the pain of the fire.

 

[New1]

Children have fire safety in school/daycare and are taught to get out if they smell smoke or gas or if there is a fire.

These boys were old enough to try to get out. IMO, Josh used the hatchet to prevent this. Not because he was concerned about the pain of the fire.

Don't you think it is illogical to think a grown man could not have held two little boys, one in each arm, to keep them from getting out?

ETA: Also, the door was locked, so how could they have gotten out?

 

[essies]

Children have fire safety in school/daycare and are taught to get out if they smell smoke or gas or if there is a fire.

These boys were old enough to try to get out. IMO, Josh used the hatchet to prevent this. Not because he was concerned about the pain of the fire.

BBM
ITA Josh didn't have the time to drug them as he probably did to Susan. He knew they would try to bolt and run when they got inside the house and sensed something terribly wrong was about to happen. That hatchet was used to subdue them and keep them from fleeing their death at his evil hands!!
:banghead:

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Don't you think it is illogical to think a grown man could not have held two little boys, one in each arm, to keep them from getting out?

No, I don't.

I believe he carefully planned this down to the very last detail. I imagine he went through a list of 'what if' scenarios.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Don't you think it is illogical to think a grown man could not have held two little boys, one in each arm, to keep them from getting out?

ETA: Also, the door was locked, so how could they have gotten out?

My 7 year old knows how to unlock a door.

 

[New1]

No, I don't.

I believe he carefully planned this down to the very last detail. I imagine he went through a list of 'what if' scenarios.

Of course he planned it. He planned to chop them with the hatchet first, why else would he have had it there? He probably didn't have a gun and couldn't get one because he was a suspected murderer, or he would have shot them first. When this story was first reported they said he grabbed both boys and snatched them inside and locked the door in the SW's face so she couldn't get in. Of course, he could have had the hatchet there to use on the SW in case she came in before or at the same time the boys did and he didn't have time to lock her out.

 

[New1]

My 7 year old knows how to unlock a door.

Even if it was locked with a key and someone else had the key?

 

[sherryk]

There had been a little talk about wondering if the body was in fact JP.
I would have to say yes it was base on my opion of these facts of what we know or logic of what has been reported.

He answered the door.. he was there.
If not what other male or person would be willing to sit in a home drenched with gasoline, unless against their will.
If that was the case how would or how willing would that person be willing to light the gasoline.. the home exploded I do not think JP would of had time to get out. ( unless he had some master plan with a firecraker like fuse that would light from the back door and ignight the home .. which would give him time to escape)

But the thing is that rather than be on the run with only 7k and a face that is known nationally.. changing identy.. I suspect he rather just take himself out and the kids.. due to fact that he is a selfish person.. he would feel quilt (I would hope) at some point.. he would save himself the guilt of killing his own flesh and blood by simply taking his life.. in as a coward would do.

long post.. but when i get going on this guy I just get going.. still so sad.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Even if it was locked with a key and someone else had the key?

Has it been reported that the home had double cylinder deadbolts?

 

[Dal Gal]

I'm under the impression that they were in the master bedroom, so there wouldn't have been an exterior door and a bedroom door would only lock from the inside, but we don't know what type of lock it had. I do believe that the boys would have attempted to flee and that is how JP was able to manage to incapacitate both of them -- from behind.

(Female homeowner) says "Looking at it and to know that that was my bedroom and those little babies died in it. It's just too much."
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/su...-powell-explosion/EEIOFDYqr0CxM9rnkzFPdQ.cspx

They had owned the home since 1996 (per zillow.com) so even though the home was blown apart and the layout was no longer apparent, if LE told them where the bodies were found, they would know exactly what room it was.

*MOO*

 

[Etilema]

It seems it's also possible to obtain fingerprints and palm prints from burnt bodies. Fingerprints can usually be turned around in 24 hours.

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/MicrosilDecomposedFingerprint.html

http://www.bleaching-dental.com/articles/fingerprints_and_human_identification.html

When an individual is burned to death, the body will usually exhibit clenched hands. Clenching of the hands is a natural reaction that tends to protect the friction ridge detail on the fingers and possible residual prints left by the victim. Instead of forcing the fingers open, the tendon on the inside of the fingers should be cut and the fingers gently straightened. It may also be necessary to remove the fingers from the hand for examination. At this point, photography is advised to capture any ridge detail that may be present on the fingers. Hardened and loose friction skin ay be twisted off the finger, while epidermal skin that has lifted off the dermis but is still attached to the hand should be removed using forceps and curved Metzenbaum scissors for recording purposes.

This story, posted yesterday, still says "three bodies believed to be Josh Powell and his two sons".

http://m.ctv.ca/topstories/20120208/josh-powell-utah-murder-suicide-investigation-120208.html

 

[Etilema]

I'm under the impression that they were in the master bedroom, so there wouldn't have been an exterior door and a bedroom door would only lock from the inside, but we don't know what type of lock it had. I do believe that the boys would have attempted to flee and that is how JP was able to manage to incapacitate both of them -- from behind.

(Female homeowner) says "Looking at it and to know that that was my bedroom and those little babies died in it. It's just too much."
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/su...-powell-explosion/EEIOFDYqr0CxM9rnkzFPdQ.cspx

They had owned the home since 1996 (per zillow.com) so even though the home was blown apart and the layout was no longer apparent, if LE told them where the bodies were found, they would know exactly what room it was.

*MOO*

According to the floor plan shown previously ([ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7576023&postcount=217"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Josh Powell's House in WA blows up - Thread #2[/ame]), they were all in the living room, near the front door. He must have pulled them in and started the attack pretty quickly (which would fit with the social worker hearing crying).

 

[Magdalyn]

This story, posted yesterday, still says "three bodies believed to be Josh Powell and his two sons".

http://m.ctv.ca/topstories/20120208/josh-powell-utah-murder-suicide-investigation-120208.html

Well I hope that wording is simply journalistic @ss covering seeing as the boys are being buried the day after tomorrow. Don't think they'd release the bodies to a family and allow them to bury them if they can't absolutely confirm their identification.