Child directs airplanes over radio transmissions at JFK

[Gracenote]

I think when I have my hysterectomy the surgeon should let his little child handle the scalpel some as long as he is right there telling him what to do. Maybe he can tell the nurse to hand him 3.0 silk when the time comes. I think it would be cute and after all, what could go wrong?

I am being facetious.

, I see you sitting there. Interested to hear your opinion on this if you have one.

Edit: opinion on the ATC not my surgeon.

 

[PorcineGranny]

, I read your link and post as well as all the others. I still cannot make any excuse for this man who allowed the child to direct air traffic. If one of my children had been on an airplane that this happened to, I would be beyond furious. It wasn't just fun, it was taking advantage of others who had no control but depended on the airlines and air traffic controllers to do their job as specified by each company and the federal aviation commission.JMO

 

[Mr. E]

I agree with those who say it's being blown out of proportion. It's not like the dad plopped the kid down in his seat, then left him alone to do his job. He let the boy speak to some pilots. When I listened to it on the news, all the kid was doing was clearing planes for take off.

 

[raeann]

I agree with those who say it's being blown out of proportion. It's not like the dad plopped the kid down in his seat, then left him alone to do his job. He let the boy speak to some pilots. When I listened to it on the news, all the kid was doing was clearing planes for take off.

He wasn't actually clearing them for take off, it was more like ground traffic control. I believe that the "contact departure" instruction sends them to the actual flight control person. HOWEVER, there are specific rules that were blatantly broken. That alone says much about the ability of this controller to use good judgement. A spilled drink or an accidental touch of the wrong piece of equipment could have resulted in a shut down of the entire system at JFK, costing an enormous amount of expense and delay. While the father was most likely watching the child closely, that only means that while attending to the child, he was neglecting other duties and responsibilities. In the long run, it was stupid, there is NO EXCUSE that makes it either cute or OK to risk other peoples welfare in order to humor a child.

jmoo

 

[oh_gal]

All I know is that if I were on one of those planes, I'd probably be unhappy about the whole thing occuring. Although, the pilots (the ones we heard, anyway) didn't seem too put out by it.

 

[kbl8201]

air traffic control is not russian roulette

 

[raeann]

To put it into perspective, if this controller is NOT punished severely, that will encourage other controllers to allow their kids to do the same in order to get their 15 minutes of fame and national news coverage. What if train engineers decide to let their kids "drive" through cities with dangerous crossings? What if a pilot thinks its ok to let his kid come into the cockpit to "fly" you across the country for your next flight? There are dozens of possible examples.

jmoo

 

[raeann]

I actually agree that it is OK for the children to come up to the tower to see what their dad does at work --- with specific permission from his superiors, and an arranged time for them to be there. HOWEVER, the responsible way to do that would be after his shift was OVER and someone else was on duty. While he was on duty his complete and total attention should have been on his job, not on his kids, what they were doing, or what he was having them repeat into the microphone. It was a stupid move, and I would hope that we could hold someone in such a position of responsibility to a higher standard of decision making. Perhaps firing isn't necessary if this is the ONLY blemish on his record, but certainly some re-training and other serious disciplinary measures along with specific instructions that his job is NOT entertainment or a baby sitting service.

jmoo

 

[jjenny]

I don't think children should be at the control tower at all. Even if after work. Because attention of whoever is working could be diverted by someone else's children.

 

[jjenny]

To put it into perspective, if this controller is NOT punished severely, that will encourage other controllers to allow their kids to do the same in order to get their 15 minutes of fame and national news coverage. What if train engineers decide to let their kids "drive" through cities with dangerous crossings? What if a pilot thinks its ok to let his kid come into the cockpit to "fly" you across the country for your next flight? There are dozens of possible examples.

jmoo

Exactly.

 

[scuseme]

From what I understand, the child was not in the air traffic controllers tower. This was ground control. Big difference. It is a separate building and does not control planes while in the air. The child was simply repeating commands. WHile I don't think it was the smartest thing for a father to do, I don't believe anyone's life was at stake.

 

[kbl8201]

repeating commands.......and if the kid slips up what happens? i know someone has said "it didnt'. this isnt russian roulette, lives are at stake

 

[scuseme]

he was not talking to planes in the air. he was talking to planes on the ground.

 

[Cubby]

repeating commands.......and if the kid slips up what happens? i know someone has said "it didnt'. this isnt russian roulette, lives are at stake

I don't know but I will ask for clarification purposes.

What is your definition of a child 'parroting' aka following or repeating the behaviours they see in adults and how does russian roulette compare to parroting in your world?

I heard the child 'parroting' and I heard a father who was very interested in expanding his childs horizons. So he evidently made a poor choice, we all do.

I have a 1st grader who doesn't ask to go Disney, he wants to go to China, Japan, Korea or India. I am also a never married single mother. I 'fly' where my childs desires 'fly' weighing the scales of risk and safety like any scale.. I also consider the decisions I make on my childs emotional and mental well being. given the choice this daddy made... I would have done the same.

:sponge: is great for pretend, but I would never want to hinder my childs desire to learn, his imagination and desires, provided my best decision on ensuring my childs choices and desires and the risks, else his mind turing to mush and fear.

If I were this father who made this decision to allow his child to come to work, and 'parrot', I would rather give my resignation than hinder a childs mind.

We fly with wide open wings, no clipping here. If my child slips up and makes a mistake he knows that happens and we try, try again. He also knows as a parent he can trust my decisions on the risks given is freedom or room for choices.

I trust that the dad who made this decision to share his job and have his kid parrot him, did nothing wrong.

jmo

 

[Mr. E]

This is pretty much off topic, but I thought I'd throw it out there since it does relate.

When my oldest (who is now 18) was 3, we took a short flight to visit relatives. It was just me and the kid, and I was pregnant. I had all this carry on stuff, and I was pretty much overwhelmed. It was a small communter plane, so we all walked outside to board. When the child saw the big steps leading up to the plane, she freaked and wanted to be held. So I had her PLUS all the carry on stuff PLUS I was pregnant. The pilot hadn't boarded yet. He took my child, plopped his cap on her head, and carried her up the steps. Then he took her to the cockpit and sat her down. I've got a picture of my three year old sitting in the pilot's seat. It was awesome, and it really eased her fears. She still remembers it.

I don't know if that would be allowed today...

 

[SuziQ]

There have been some deadly accidents from planes colliding on ground. I don't think the kids should have been part of directing the planes or in the building at all. Kids are way to distracting.

 

[raeann]

he was not talking to planes in the air. he was talking to planes on the ground.

There have been hundreds of deaths of people in planes "on the ground" when pilots were given incorrect or misunderstood instructions from ground control and crossed a runway where another plane was landing or taking off. FWIW both the FAA and the Air Traffic controllers union have had people on news reports stating that the children (plural and on two different days) were IN the tower. The second child's tapes have been transcribed by news sources and a number of her instructions have been labeled inaudible and unintelligible. I am betting no one here wants unintelligible instructions given to their pilot when he is crossing active runways!

jmoo

 

[raeann]

I don't know but I will ask for clarification purposes.

What is your definition of a child 'parroting' aka following or repeating the behaviours they see in adults and how does russian roulette compare to parroting in your world?

I heard the child 'parroting' and I heard a father who was very interested in expanding his childs horizons. So he evidently made a poor choice, we all do.

I have a 1st grader who doesn't ask to go Disney, he wants to go to China, Japan, Korea or India. I am also a never married single mother. I 'fly' where my childs desires 'fly' weighing the scales of risk and safety like any scale.. I also consider the decisions I make on my childs emotional and mental well being. given the choice this daddy made... I would have done the same.

:sponge: is great for pretend, but I would never want to hinder my childs desire to learn, his imagination and desires, provided my best decision on ensuring my childs choices and desires and the risks, else his mind turing to mush and fear.

If I were this father who made this decision to allow his child to come to work, and 'parrot', I would rather give my resignation than hinder a childs mind.

We fly with wide open wings, no clipping here. If my child slips up and makes a mistake he knows that happens and we try, try again. He also knows as a parent he can trust my decisions on the risks given is freedom or room for choices.

I trust that the dad who made this decision to share his job and have his kid parrot him, did nothing wrong.

jmo

BBM....The FAA has said that he did wrong, his superiors have said that he did wrong, the air traffic controllers union has said that he did wrong, about a hundred "experts" interviewed on cable news have unanimously said that he did wrong. So.....I personally am more inclined to trust THEIR decision. Not a single person in authority has said that what he did was a proper and responsible decision.

jmoo

 

[panthera]

There have been hundreds of deaths of people in planes "on the ground" when pilots were given incorrect or misunderstood instructions from ground control and crossed a runway where another plane was landing or taking off. FWIW both the FAA and the Air Traffic controllers union have had people on news reports stating that the children (plural and on two different days) were IN the tower. The second child's tapes have been transcribed by news sources and a number of her instructions have been labeled inaudible and unintelligible. I am betting no one here wants unintelligible instructions given to their pilot when he is crossing active runways!

jmoo

Thank you! I also heard that tape yesterday and couldn't understand the child's voice either. While the child could just be repeating what the adult was telling them, a situation involving aircraft can change in a moment and the trained adult should be the one who is directing the aircraft. This isn't a job for "take your kid to work day". MOO

 

[scuseme]

I'm not saying he didn't do wrong. But I don't believe he should lose his job. I think it was very inappropriate but this was not at JFK or ATL or another big airport. I think the father probably thought it was a safe time to allow his child to do this. Was it smart? NO. But I don't think we know the whole story. I think he should be punished (dock his pay, days off) but I don't think he needs to be fired.