Clifford Lane Lawless

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Yeah, I'm looking at PRIOR to church savin', worshipin', preachin'. If he were saved in Wenatchee, would you think as a young boy he lived there? Was his name Lawless there? Also, he was baptized by someone from Omak, not that far from Wenatchee, considered a friend? I actually have relatives from around there (in-laws) and will ask as Okanagon County is small and word gets around...
 
Exactly. There are no aliases there. They're all either misspellings, or typos, or listing him by his given-middle, instead of his given, name. An "alias" almost always involves someone changing his or her surname. As for the moves, those are normal for a pastor.

It is quite risky to believe internet identity-searches; for example, I'm listed on one as having SEVEN different addresses in a town in which I lived a year, and at which I had one address.

You are right that Internet name searches are inaccurate. However, everyone leaves a trail... if we look for the complete correct name. :)
A man has a disadvantage if he's trying to " hide" because his name doesn't change due to marriage or divorce or spouse's death.
I'm listed as my former husband's wife, and I have been remarried for MANY years. I know the searches are often wrong, especially the free stuff that's visible on Veromi.net. and everything on Peoplefinders.com
 
You are right that Internet name searches are inaccurate. However, everyone leaves a trail... if we look for the complete correct name. :)
A man has a disadvantage if he's trying to " hide" because his name doesn't change due to marriage or divorce or spouse's death.
I'm listed as my former husband's wife, and I have been remarried for MANY years. I know the searches are often wrong, especially the free stuff that's visible on Veromi.net. and everything on Peoplefinders.com

Agreed. One MUST use the resources available, but with an eye to, as you said, considering one's sources.
 
I have only one name on veromi, and peoplesearch 2 (maiden name). I'm thinking this man has changed his name totally many years ago. How can he drop from the face of the earth before he was "saved."

I also know (from experience) that people take to "the lord" and being "saved" to "cure" themselves of pedophilia. It's entirely possible that this man changed his name/clean slate when he was "saved." Where is the data before his saving, I ask?

Again... not implicating, only sleuthing... and MOO! :)
 
Yeah, I'm looking at PRIOR to church savin', worshipin', preachin'. If he were saved in Wenatchee, would you think as a young boy he lived there? Was his name Lawless there? Also, he was baptized by someone from Omak, not that far from Wenatchee, considered a friend? I actually have relatives from around there (in-laws) and will ask as Okanagon County is small and word gets around...

I hereby " nominate" you to dig into this. :)
This is a very succinct line of thinking, IMO, and one which needs to be pursued. Since he has been a minister for over 30 years, there is a possibility that his last name isn't Lawless. Churches in the 70's, etc. didn't question a man of God.. Plus, this man had a mentor, his FIL.

All I know is that the dates appear to tell a story in 1960 ONLY, when Lawless was already in his 30's. He met Connie Harris, apparently fell in love with her. Her father was a Baptist preacher. So Mr. Lawless became a Baptist on his wedding day and was marred and baptized by his FIL. ( very strange to be baptized on one's wedding day, to be honest).

Harris ( FIL) plays a huge part in Lawless's life at the beginning of what we know- his baptism, his marriage, whatever religious tutelage Rev. Harris provided.. The FIL would most certainly be deceased but the Harris family may know things about Mr. Lawless, at least about his background in 1960, when he would already be in his 30's.

I probably would start by looking into the career of Elder Harris ( the FIL, father of Connie Harris Lawless). Did he ever do any, um, community ministerial service, gently phrased?
 
I hereby " nominate" you to dig into this. :)
This is a very succinct line of thinking, IMO, and one which needs to be pursued. Since he has been a minister for over 30 years, there is a possibility that his last name isn't Lawless. Churches in the 70's, etc. didn't question a man of God.. Plus, this man had a mentor, his FIL.

All I know is that the dates appear to tell a story in 1960 ONLY, when Lawless was already in his 30's. He met Connie Harris, apparently fell in love with her. Her father was a Baptist preacher. So Mr. Lawless became a Baptist on his wedding day and was marred and baptized by his FIL. ( very strange to be baptized on one's wedding day, to be honest).

Harris ( FIL) plays a huge part in Lawless's life at the beginning of what we know- his baptism, his marriage, whatever religious tutelage Rev. Harris provided.. The FIL would most certainly be deceased but the Harris family may know things about Mr. Lawless, at least about his background in 1960, when he would already be in his 30's.

I probably would start by looking into the career of Elder Harris ( the FIL, father of Connie Harris Lawless). Did he ever do any, um, community ministerial service, gently phrased?

Fascintating theory, yet I fail to be convinced that a preacher would change his name to "Lawless."
 
I have only one name on veromi, and peoplesearch 2 (maiden name). I'm thinking this man has changed his name totally many years ago. How can he drop from the face of the earth before he was "saved."

I also know (from experience) that people take to "the lord" and being "saved" to "cure" themselves of pedophilia. It's entirely possible that this man changed his name/clean slate when he was "saved." Where is the data before his saving, I ask?

Again... not implicating, only sleuthing... and MOO! :)
The problem with sleuthing someone's life from such a distant starting point, is the Internet as we know and use it now, wasn't even invented yet...

http://www.howoldistheinternet.com/

This man we are researching here is 77 years old.
Not being able to find information from 30, 40, 50 years ago, wouldn't necessarily mean he was living under a different identity, just that no information is available from that time period.
Usually, only people of notoriety, have that kind of Internet presence, that far back.
 
Lina's K, do you believe the pond was drained " incidentally"? I'm wondering if the FBI suggested it.. Again, going to the comment today that this was a " disorganized crime".
I believe they have a good psych. profile of the killer to release that info.

Any known connection between Ann Silva and the Lawless family or Sandra's family?
Jana, I found more info on it on another thread: Sgt. Tony Sheneman with the Tracy Police Department said when workers were draining the pond in the area off Tracy Boulevard and Whitehall Road Monday morning in preparation to flood a nearby field, the suitcase floated to the surface. He said a worker moved it to the edge of the pond and then called authorities. http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=57551&catid=2
 
I hereby " nominate" you to dig into this. :)
This is a very succinct line of thinking, IMO, and one which needs to be pursued. Since he has been a minister for over 30 years, there is a possibility that his last name isn't Lawless. Churches in the 70's, etc. didn't question a man of God.. Plus, this man had a mentor, his FIL.

All I know is that the dates appear to tell a story in 1960 ONLY, when Lawless was already in his 30's. He met Connie Harris, apparently fell in love with her. Her father was a Baptist preacher. So Mr. Lawless became a Baptist on his wedding day and was marred and baptized by his FIL. ( very strange to be baptized on one's wedding day, to be honest).

Harris ( FIL) plays a huge part in Lawless's life at the beginning of what we know- his baptism, his marriage, whatever religious tutelage Rev. Harris provided.. The FIL would most certainly be deceased but the Harris family may know things about Mr. Lawless, at least about his background in 1960, when he would already be in his 30's.

I probably would start by looking into the career of Elder Harris ( the FIL, father of Connie Harris Lawless). Did he ever do any, um, community ministerial service, gently phrased?

Yes, I have been but, again, alias on Elder's part. I am going to ask my family about these guys tomorrow, as the in-law family member in particular is in her 70s and will surely know especially the Elder Harris (she lived near Omak). IF NOT, then hink meter strikes up again, because my MIL knows EVERYONE of that age in Okanagon... believe me! LOL

The hink meter rose when I researched Elder Harris and he had an alias, and was Lawless's mentor. Smells to me, but again, I'd hate to implicate... My mom has been pushing me to bust out my theories for a couple of days but I didn't think I had anyone looking into Pastor Lawless. The poll told me otherwise! I need TakeNote to help me on this! She's from WA too! LOL. Actually, anyone can help... I'm trying to search the missing link from Cali to Wenatchee.
 
Lawless name is all over Wenatchee.... Just not his...

Yes, I've taught people named Lawless and I know there are lots of them. But, if it's posited that the man changed his name--after he found religion, particularly--"Lawless" is a bit of an odd choice, unless it were a family name on his mother's side, I suppose.
 
Lawless name is all over Wenatchee.... Just not his...
Well... I mentioned on another thread, the actress who played Zena the Warrior Princess was an Australian gal Lucy Lawless. May be more common than we think, just awfully ironic in this case.
 
Fascintating theory, yet I fail to be convinced that a preacher would change his name to "Lawless."

He may have been born with the name and have been an upstanding fine citizen all his life. We don't know, do we?

Speculation only- if there was a name change, maybe Harris gave him that last name, to be accepted as an act of humility.. or maybe Lawless decided to use the " hide in plain sight" theory. IDK. I'm hoping he's as pure in heart and innocent of this crime as the driven snow. But someone's guilty and so we sleuth, using names LE have thrown out as POIs.

BTW, I just remembered-
The Bible says that Jesus changed some of his disciples' names. Rev. Harris was a mentor to Lawless in a similar type of holy person in authority to disciple way, it seems.
 
The problem with sleuthing someone's life from such a distant starting point, is the Internet as we know and use it now, wasn't even invented yet...

http://www.howoldistheinternet.com/

This man we are researching here is 77 years old.
Not being able to find information from 30, 40, 50 years ago, wouldn't necessarily mean he was living under a different identity, just that no information is available from that time period.

I've researched on geneology websites of people born 100s years earlier. I would think that I would find him on a high school roster.
 
He may have been born with the name and have been an upstanding fine citizen all his life. We don't know, do we?

Speculation only- if there was a name change, maybe Harris gave him that last name, to be accepted as an act of humility.. or maybe Lawless decided to use the " hide in plain sight" theory. IDK. I'm hoping he's as pure in heart and innocent of this crime as the driven snow. But someone's guilty and so we sleuth, using names LE have thrown out as POIs.

BTW, I just remembered-
The Bible says that Jesus changed some of his disciples' names. Rev. Harris was a mentor to Lawless in a similar type of holy person in authority to disciple way, it seems.

Yes, Jesus says to love the least of men, to love one's enemy, to love the wrongdoer, and He saved one "lawless" man beside Him on the cross, after he (St. Dismas is the name given him by the Church) repented of his sins and accepted Christ as his Savior.

So, while it's counter-intuitive that a religious man could become "Lawless," it certainly would fit a certain humility. Well-put.
 
Good point...

:blowkiss:

Ah... you know I love ya!

I'm thinking he's not from Wenatchee, but maybe around the vicinity... MAYBE, but the key is Elder Harris. I'm on that tomorrow with mother-in-law!

I'm just looking for an excuse to talk with my mother-in-law! :crazy:
 
I've found some old newspaper articles with his name mentioned. Can i post the links to them here or should I on the main forum?
 
I've found some old newspaper articles with his name mentioned. Can i post the links to them here or should I on the main forum?
Put 'em here. Now that we have a forum, we're trying to branch out from the single General Discussion threads that encompass everything and get unwieldy...
 

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