Closing Arguments- Chase Merritt Charged W/Murder of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joe Jr McStay #2

[MsFacetious]

I'm sure I don't need to clarify my opinion but I will anyway. I feel this way regardless of verdict. In fact I'd just as soon they halt the whole thing now and start over.

Regardless of the verdict this trial wasn't justice for anyone. It was a disgrace to the McStay family, it wasn't a fair trial for the defendant and it wasn't done by the book so it won't hold up on appeal.

Anyone who wants a guilty verdict should hope for a fair guilty verdict, not this. This wouldn't be justice, it would be short term victory with years of defeat ahead.

I'm not ok with the way this trial was run regardless of the outcome.

Yes. Exactly.

I wonder if the delay was for handing the affidavits in to the judge and any discussion that might have entailed.

That shouldn't have impacted the jury. They wouldn't have been in the courtroom for that. Why couldn't they have deliberated while the court handled that?

This really feels wrong. Something feels off. Maybe it is just too contentious in there, which is why they are leaving early, taking long lunches and starting late. Something smells off to me.

I don't like it at all. I never thought I'd be praying for a hung jury. I just don't see any other way the McStay family gets justice.

Hung jury+retrial+proper trial+conviction is the fastest way to get justice.

The appeals+new trial+proper trial+conviction route will take so much longer and be so much more stressful.

Like Chase or not, this trial was a joke and a farce. It is just not fair. After waiting 9 years for justice this shitshow is what the McStay family ends up with.

 

[gitana1]

We know one of the alternates works for Kaiser. I think she is a doctor.

I guess there's a fourth option! Kaiser is primarily not for profit but they're large and so they probably have great policies for their workers. So I suppose it's not too surprising.

I do know that Legal Aid agencies in CA, which are largely government- funded and are non-profit, do give paid time to their workers for jury duty. So there are some places that aren't government agencies, that allow it.

I wondered some of the big for profit places like Google would?

 

[gitana1]

I'm sure I don't need to clarify my opinion but I will anyway. I feel this way regardless of verdict. In fact I'd just as soon they halt the whole thing now and start over.

Regardless of the verdict this trial wasn't justice for anyone. It was a disgrace to the McStay family, it wasn't a fair trial for the defendant and it wasn't done by the book so it won't hold up on appeal.

Anyone who wants a guilty verdict should hope for a fair guilty verdict, not this. This wouldn't be justice, it would be short term victory with years of defeat ahead.




Yes. Exactly.




That shouldn't have impacted the jury. They wouldn't have been in the courtroom for that. Why couldn't they have deliberated while the court handled that?




I don't like it at all. I never thought I'd be praying for a hung jury. I just don't see any other way the McStay family gets justice.

Hung jury+retrial+proper trial+conviction is the fastest way to get justice.

The appeals+new trial+proper trial+conviction route will take so much longer and be so much more stressful.

Like Chase or not, this trial was a joke and a farce. It is just not fair. After waiting 9 years for justice this shitshow is what the McStay family ends up with.

Is it the pace that makes you think it's a farce? The delays?

Or were there specific rulings that concern you?

It is incredibly hard to win on appeal in CA.

 

[Mony Mony]

I guess there's a fourth option! Kaiser is primarily not for profit but they're large and so they probably have great policies for their workers. So I suppose it's not too surprising.

I do know that Legal Aid agencies in CA, which are largely government- funded and are non-profit, do give paid time to their workers for jury duty. So there are some places that aren't government agencies, that allow it.

I wondered some of the big for profit places like Google would?

I work for a very large, commercial, health insurance and jury duty is covered for the entire duration of the trial. I was recently called for jury duty and had to check the policy. I even confirmed with HR to make sure I was reading it correctly. Interesting though, it only applied to workers in certain states. Other states had 5 day limits. Strange.

 

[missy1974]

I'm sure I don't need to clarify my opinion but I will anyway. I feel this way regardless of verdict. In fact I'd just as soon they halt the whole thing now and start over.

Regardless of the verdict this trial wasn't justice for anyone. It was a disgrace to the McStay family, it wasn't a fair trial for the defendant and it wasn't done by the book so it won't hold up on appeal.

Anyone who wants a guilty verdict should hope for a fair guilty verdict, not this. This wouldn't be justice, it would be short term victory with years of defeat ahead.

Yes. Exactly.

That shouldn't have impacted the jury. They wouldn't have been in the courtroom for that. Why couldn't they have deliberated while the court handled that?

I don't like it at all. I never thought I'd be praying for a hung jury. I just don't see any other way the McStay family gets justice.

Hung jury+retrial+proper trial+conviction is the fastest way to get justice.

The appeals+new trial+proper trial+conviction route will take so much longer and be so much more stressful.

Like Chase or not, this trial was a joke and a farce. It is just not fair. After waiting 9 years for justice this shitshow is what the McStay family ends up with.

I wish I could like your post a million times!

 

[gitana1]

I work for a very large, commercial, health insurance and jury duty is covered for the entire duration of the trial. I was recently called for jury duty and had to check the policy. I even confirmed with HR to make sure I was reading it correctly. Interesting though, it only applied to workers in certain states. Other states had 5 day limits. Strange.

Wow. I wonder why?

 

[gitana1]

Guys were there any motions by the defense for mistrial due to the delays or relaxed scheduling, as a due process violation?

If not, unless there was:

1. Jury misconduct.
2. Prosecutorial misconduct.
3. Errors in law regarding rulings about the admissibility of evidence.
4. Errors in law as to sentencing if it gets that far.

- a guilty verdict would not be appealable.

And even then, the Court had to find, via a two pronged test, that the error or misconduct actually prejudiced the defendant.

Even when they find errors the appellate court quite often finds that it didn't affect the outcome.

These delays and weird schedules are super frustrating and odd. But unless the defense filed a motion asking for a mistrial on that basis and had good law supporting the motion, which was then denied, the delays and scheduling won't be grounds for an appeal, IMO.

Is there anything else that went wrong?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Is it the pace that makes you think it's a farce? The delays?

Or were there specific rulings that concern you?

It is incredibly hard to win on appeal in CA.

I have tried to think of what MsF thinks are sucessful appellate issues she has mentioned several times they see in this case. I'm still drawing a blank.

I am very interested though in knowing what she thinks they are.

Trials are usually overturned due to a judge's rulings in any case. I haven't seen any rulings made by JS that would even be an appellate issue much less a successful one.

I could see more viable appellate issues for the state, but sadly the state doesn't ever get a chance to appeal anything.

I've never seen.. how long or how short a jury takes to decide any guilty or NG verdict be a successful appellate issue.

Guilty verdicts have come back in as quickly as 15 minutes with others taking days or weeks.

I don't think there is a legal time limit requirement when verdicts must be rendered, but you would know that legal answer far better than I.

Yes, it's very rare for cases to be overturned. CE cases are the least likely to be overturned. Imo

Jmho

 

[Kavya01]

I am again just mostly thankful they are still serving, and have for this long. Without such people giving up so many months we couldn't have important trials like this.

Let them take all the time they need to do it right. What's another few days upon nine years? The McStay's are not impatient any longer. And the defendant imho deserves to be on pins and needles a while.

I keep having the faith.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Guys were there any motions by the defense for mistrial due to the delays or relaxed scheduling, as a due process violation?

If not, unless there was:

1. Jury misconduct.
2. Prosecutorial misconduct.
3. Errors in law regarding rulings about the admissibility of evidence.
4. Errors in law as to sentencing if it gets that far.

- a guilty verdict would not be appealable.

And even then, the Court had to find, via a two pronged test, that the error or misconduct actually prejudiced the defendant.

Even when they find errors the appellate court quite often finds that it didn't affect the outcome.

These delays and weird schedules are super frustrating and odd. But unless the defense filed a motion asking for a mistrial on that basis and had good law supporting the motion, which was then denied, the delays and scheduling won't be grounds for an appeal, IMO.

Is there anything else that went wrong?

No one has delayed this trial any more than the DT themselves.

Imo

 

[Force Ten]

Yeah it's weird. Most are eager to go home. But they seem to be mirroring. The super relaxed scheduling of the court in this case.

I don't know why. Maybe to accommodate certain jurors so that they don't have to keep using alternates, for fear that if they don't accommodate those jurors they will run out of minutes and there will be a mistrial?

Could very well be. As jury foreman, I would set the standard to abide by the hours and be firm about it. This jury, any jury, has a duty, to expediently seek justice or set an innocent man free. This lacsidaisical attitude is just beyond me.

 

[gitana1]

Could very well be. As jury foreman, I would set the standard to abide by the hours and be firm about it. This jury, any jury, has a duty, to expediently seek justice or set an innocent man free. This lacsidaisical attitude is just beyond me.

Since it mirrors the trial there must be a reason that has to do with accommodating certain jurors. I think.

 

[wary]

Guys were there any motions by the defense for mistrial due to the delays or relaxed scheduling, as a due process violation?

If not, unless there was:

1. Jury misconduct.
2. Prosecutorial misconduct.
3. Errors in law regarding rulings about the admissibility of evidence.
4. Errors in law as to sentencing if it gets that far.

- a guilty verdict would not be appealable.

And even then, the Court had to find, via a two pronged test, that the error or misconduct actually prejudiced the defendant.

Even when they find errors the appellate court quite often finds that it didn't affect the outcome.

These delays and weird schedules are super frustrating and odd. But unless the defense filed a motion asking for a mistrial on that basis and had good law supporting the motion, which was then denied, the delays and scheduling won't be grounds for an appeal, IMO.

Is there anything else that went wrong?

Would a new defense team be able to claim that his current attorneys had failed in not requesting the mistrial due to delay?

Now, the defense has caused a substantial amount of the delay—but still, are new attorneys bound by the (possible) mistakes of the old defense team?

 

[lms]

I'm so surprised that the jury is allowed to go home while they are in deliberations? Aren't they usually quarantined in a hotel for the duration of the trial or at least the deliberation? Especially considering it is a murder trial of 4 individuals? What's to stop them from googling or discussing the trial with family members at home at night? Does anyone know?

 

[gitana1]

No one has delayed this trial any more than the DT themselves.

Imo

Well coupled with your post about no bad rulings and many of the delays being caused by the defense, I'm not worried about appealable issues.

But it's hard to follow a case that long so the delays may favor the defense when it comes to the ability of the jury to put it all together and convict, beside they haven't been able to discuss as it goes along.

Maybe that's what has some posters freaked out and wanting a mistrial?

 

[gitana1]

I'm so surprised that the jury is allowed to go home while they are in deliberations? Aren't they usually quarantined in a hotel for the duration of the trial or at least the deliberation? Especially considering it is a murder trial of 4 individuals? What's to stop them from googling or discussing the trial with family members at home at night? Does anyone know?

Thank God no. That's not the standard. Especially not after the debacle of the Casey Anthony case in which jurors refused to find her guilty of ANY of the possible charges that would have required a sentencing phase, including the lesser includeds, even child neglect.

Nothing stops them from discussing it or googling. But most jurors take their duties seriously from what I've heard.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

I wish I could like your post a million times!

I think you can. Just like/unlike/like/unlike... lather... rinse... repeat.

 

[gitana1]

Would a new defense team be able to claim that his current attorneys had failed in not requesting the mistrial due to delay?

Now, the defense has caused a substantial amount of the delay—but still, are new attorneys bound by the (possible) mistakes of the old defense team?

That's a super smart question. Because incompetence of counsel is grounds of appeal that I didn't add to the list.

It's also super, super hard to win on. The standard is so low when it comes to competence. Attorneys have SLEPT during a death penalty trial and the defendant still loses on appeal!

Judges Reject Appeal in 'Sleeping Attorney' Case

Failing to file an obscure motion wouldn't be grounds. Asking for or causing delays wouldn't be either. IMO. Especially if due to uncontrollable things like illness.

 

[missy1974]

I think you can. Just like/unlike/like/unlike... lather... rinse... repeat.

 

[MsFacetious]

I know the judge was trying to be extremely accommodating with the football coach so they wouldn't have to use an alternate.

Okay I'm going to try and believe that the schedule is due to jurors schedules. I am okay with that scenario.

Well coupled with your post about no bad rulings and many of the delays being caused by the defense, I'm not worried about appealable issues.

But it's hard to follow a case that long so the delays may favor the defense when it comes to the ability of the jury to put it all together and convict, beside they haven't been able to discuss as it goes along.

Maybe that's what has some posters freaked out and wanting a mistrial?

I have zero opinion on Chase's guilt or innocence.

I do have a very strong opinion about justice. I wanted Chase to get a professional, fair trial. I don't feel like he got that at all.

I want a hung jury because I don't feel this trial was fair. I don't want him acquitted OR convicted by this jury.

Though I can see panicking if you fully believe he's guilty, at the thought of an acquittal. Couldn't blame them at all for that, I would be too. This isn't like Caylee, this was an entire family beaten to death. The person who did it is a danger to society.