Closing Arguments- Chase Merritt Charged W/Murder of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joe Jr McStay #3

[MissJames]

There may have been one or two not in agreement with the others. It may have taken one more day to get them onboard?

The DA said Joey’s mom asked for 2 hours notice & JS agreed . Add that to voting ,paperwork & notifications. They may have thought morning would be better , not realizing Joey’s dad had to travel back.

 

[gitana1]

so, jury started at @8:40 a.m. today, reached a verdict, filled out paperwork and left @9:40 a.m.

seems to me, jury could have added an hour to their work day yesterday to accomplish same result, then read verdict today. This is very unusual.

Or as people supposed, they had reached a tentative verdict but wanted to sleep on it, maybe?

As much as many are invested in this case, it's not about us!!!!

 

[asyousay]

The insider said the delay is to give family time to get there. If the verdict had happened in the middle of the week, it’s possible it could have been read the next day, but not when it’s a Friday. The jury has no control over whether the family is available immediately. It’s possible Patrick had to go home to TX for something urgent or someone is sick or, or, or....in any case, this delay until Monday was the family’s call apparently.

Patrick is in town and even said it’s going to be a long weekend to find out on Monday.

 

[MissJames]

This is an interesting article how some of the jurors on the El Chapo case had fears when being picked to be on the jury.

I know that case is an extreme example of someone who really does have the power and control to make things happen outside of a prison. He was the guy that had a personal tunnel dug under his cell and escaped in the tunnel on a motorcycle. Obviously arranged tons of outisde help to get that tunnel built.

High profile murder cases just scare me in general because the defendant doesnt have anything to lose if they know they are guilty.

If he thinks the jury has decided guilty already , now he has all weekend to try to lineup someone by phone (or through a visitor visit) to try to stop Monday's verdict day any way he can.
Its very rare that anything would happen but I personally would lock myself in my house all weekend if I was a juror.

Inside the El Chapo Trial Jury Selection

Completely hypothetical , but I wonder what would happen if something ( accident or illness leading to death) did happen to a juror before Monday?
Is the verdict already certified?

 

[Tortoise]

Poll here for you poll lovers.

POLL - Chase Merritt Jury Verdict

 

[wary]

More than you ever wanted to know.

https://repository.jmls.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1458&context=lawreview

The short version: if jurors change their mind at the last minute, (the polling of the jury), the judge can either declare a mistrial or send the jury back for more deliberations—jurors are free to change their mind until the jury is officially dismissed.

This is rare, but happens often enough for the article to cite a lot of cases where it’s happened.

If a juror expressed ambivalence, the judge might question him or her further, but has to be very careful to not pressure him or her into a decision. For example: the first eleven jurors say “Guilty,” in confident tones of voices. The last juror says: “Well, I guess he’s guilty if everyone else thinks he is.” What to do then?!?

Another interesting case from the article. The question asked the juror was: “Were these then and are they now your verdicts?” The juror answers, “They were not then but they are now.” The judge did some questioning, and established that the juror’s ‘not then’ referred to an earlier time in the deliberations, and that the juror now agreed with the verdict. The conviction was appealed, but upheld.

 

[gitana1]

Interesting and thanks for explaining more about the polling.

I agree it should be basically a confirmation that they agree with what they signed on the form.

But what if they do change their mind and have strong objections when being polled?

Ive never seen it actually happen but what would happen if a juror objected during polling and had second thoughts and wanted to now go against his/her original verdict?

Im going to try to find any example where it has happened.

Ugh. I looked it up. Apparently they CAN change their minds. I was wrong. I believe it only to be a confirmation that the juror did indeed vote as reflected on the form. Instead, it appears it is a poll to make sure no one was bullied and they still agree with the verdict away from the rest of the jury.

I got that wrong!! Sorry guys.

If they disagree with how they voted, they can't be questioned but the judge sends them back for more deliberations.


I will eat my hat if that happens. I'm confident this is over.

 

[MissJames]

Patrick is in town and even said it’s going to be a long weekend to find out on Monday.

I assumed Roundhouseman meant Patrick when he said the delay was to give the family time to get there.
IIRC he/she said they were with Patrick yesterday while posting.
Apologies if I got that wrong.
ETA: The post by Roundhouseman says family , not Patrick , but the resson for the delay is the same, according to his/her post.

 

[gitana1]

The short version: if jurors change their mind at the last minute, (the polling of the jury), the judge can either declare a mistrial or send the jury back for more deliberations—jurors are free to change their mind until the jury is officially dismissed.

This is rare, but happens often enough for the article to cite a lot of cases where it’s happened.

If a juror expressed ambivalence, the judge might question him or her further, but has to be very careful to not pressure him or her into a decision. For example: the first eleven jurors say “Guilty,” in confident tones of voices. The last juror says: “Well, I guess he’s guilty if everyone else thinks he is.” What to do then?!?

Another interesting case from the article. The question asked the juror was: “Were these then and are they now your verdicts?” The juror answers, “They were not then but they are now.” The judge did some questioning, and established that the juror’s ‘not then’ referred to an earlier time in the deliberations, and that the juror now agreed with the verdict. The conviction was appealed, but upheld.

Jinx!

I just posted. It's actually not what I believed the poll to be about.

You guys are good!!!!!

 

[MissJames]

Ugh. I looked it up. Apparently they CAN change their minds. I was wrong. I believe it only to be a confirmation that the juror did indeed vote as reflected on the form. Instead, it appears it is a poll to make sure no one was bullied and they still agree with the verdict away from the rest of the jury.

I got that wrong!! Sorry guys.

If they disagree with how they voted, they can't be questioned but the judge sends them back for more deliberations.


I will eat my hat if that happens. I'm confident this is over.

Any ideas on how the jury tampering situation will play out , given the affidavits released yesterday?

 

[gitana1]

I assumed Roundhouseman meant Patrick when he said the delay was to give the family time to get there.
IIRC he/she said they were with Patrick yesterday while posting.
Apologies if I got that wrong.

Then why are they waiting!! So terrible to do to the families. And the lawyers, frankly.

 

[Longtimenoc]

Hope the jurors hold up in their homes until Monday a.m.

They are probably reading here as we type

 

[MissJames]

Then why are they waiting!! So terrible to do to the families. And the lawyers, frankly.

Roundhousman is now verified as an insider & posted it was to give the family time to get there . If not Patrick , Idon’t know , but assume someone. ???

 

[wary]

Ugh. I looked it up. Apparently they CAN change their minds. I was wrong. I believe it only to be a confirmation that the juror did indeed vote as reflected on the form. Instead, it appears it is a poll to make sure no one was bullied and they still agree with the verdict away from the rest of the jury.

I got that wrong!! Sorry guys.

If they disagree with how they voted, they can't be questioned but the judge sends them back for more deliberations.


I will eat my hat if that happens. I'm confident this is over.

You’ll only have to eat half your hat. I volunteer to eat the other half of it. I strongly doubt that any juror will change his or her mind.

 

[missy1974]

I'm pretty sure.

Thanks @gitana1 ! So then IMO the wait has nothing to do with the actual verdict. No one but the jury knows. It's not because it's guilty and who cares if he's in jail all weekend or not guilty and he's stuck there all weekend. And it's not to deal with the Wallace issue either (the State is supposed to file something Monday I believe). I was thinking maybe the judge wanted to deal with that in the case that it's a not guilty, the State doesn't get a do-over, part of the reason the State asked that it be sealed and the issue be dealt with before a verdict is read I believe, the judge on Monday denied that though I think.

 

[KALI]

Maybe Joey's olds r son is graduating today?

I assumed Roundhouseman meant Patrick when he said the delay was to give the family time to get there.
IIRC he/she said they were with Patrick yesterday while posting.
Apologies if I got that wrong.

 

[Sulamith]

He has 2 nephews who belong to a violent motorcycle gang.

MOO

What is the name of his nephew's "violent motorcycle gang"?

 

[missy1974]

Completely hypothetical , but I wonder what would happen if something ( accident or illness leading to death) did happen to a juror before Monday?
Is the verdict already certified?

omg bite your tongue!!!! (or fingers?lol)

 

[wary]

Then why are they waiting!! So terrible to do to the families. And the lawyers, frankly.

Well, we don’t know the details of the families. I know almost nothing about Summer’s family, and where they are. We aren’t supposed to sleuth family members, so I don’t want to know.

But theoretically, I could imagine someone who didn’t have the financial resources to travel to a trial of indeterminate length, but who wanted to be there at the close.

 

[MissJames]

Maybe Joey's olds r son is graduating today?

If it turns out it’s not the family , I go back to the jury tampering situation being addressed .