CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 5

[Coldpizza]

Jury selection to begin in trial of James Holmes in Colorado theater massacre

It will have been 914 days since authorities say Holmes burst into a packed suburban movie theater in the Denver suburb of Aurora, tossed a tear gas canister into the crowd and opened fire. The first panicked 911 call came at 12:38 a.m. on July 20, 2012.

The gunshots came less than a second apart, round after round, until 12 people were dead and more than 70 others injured, some permanently, in the barrage of shotgun and semiautomatic gunfire let loose during a screening of the Batman movie "The Dark Knight

snip

The Holmes trial is expected to last much of 2015; jury selection could take until late spring. And should the death sentence be imposed upon Holmes, now 27, legal experts predict two decades of appeals.

A staggering 9,000 summons were mailed to prospective jurors in Arapahoe County. It is a net so wide that in a county with about 500,000 eligible jurors, nearly 1 in 50 residents could receive notices.

But first a jury must be seated.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-james-holmes-20150119-story.html

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3
Thread 4

Live Stream Link

https://twitter.com/marckmgh

https://twitter.com/anicapadilla

https://twitter.com/thegoldpatrol

https://twitter.com/trialdiariesj

https://twitter.com/larryryckman

 

[Jinkasaurus]

This blog post includes a pdf with the instructions that will be read to the jury pool.

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2015/01/james_holmes_jury_selection_preview.php

 

[Queen Bee]

why we are here :rose:
and the 70 injured and those that love them :rose:

http://images.scribblelive.com/2015/...72cba6_800.jpg

 

[Coldpizza]

link

Please continue here

 

[Maisiebelle]

That article was very interesting. It was long but I'm glad I persevered to the end!

In the opening statements the prosecution said they have evidence from two COURT APPOINTED psychiatrist's who both concluded (from 26 hours of interviews with JH - all to be shown in court) that he was indeed sane at the time of the shootings. I know the testimony will be long but I'm looking forward to hearing it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Maisiebelle]

Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ 5 minutes ago

Jury is looking at bullet holes in the theater seats on the screen


Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman 7 minutes ago

Pettolina is going seat by seat. She's currently on Row 11, seats 7 and 8.

 

[Maisiebelle]

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman 1 minute ago

Pettolina is now marking on the floor model Row 11, seats 13 and 14. #theatershooting. This took hours yesterday. Hours more today likely.

 

[Hatfield]

Carrying over from other thread:

WOW Thanks. That is a long article, but really worth reading.

Its no wonder we all get confused about the insanity defense because even the research evaluators disagreed with 26% of the 104 cases they looked at. They felt 26% of the court decisions were wrong.

The reasons they gave as to why courts get it wrong is very interesting. One of those things was feeling the defendent needs physchiatric help. The way I took that was the study found that the courts were mistakingly thinking....."we know he needs help, so we have decided he is insane so he gets the help he needs".....when that should not have come into play as far as their actual decision of whether he should be found guilty or not by reason of insanity.

The study indicated other reasons why courts get it wrong. Things like:
lack of familiarity with Colorado statues and the court’s lack of documented data to support the forensic recommendations.

Another scary part to me is Colorado's law which states the Prosecution needs to prove Holmes was sane. Some other states require the defendent to prove he was insane for a valid defense, but in Colorado, the prosecution has to prove JH was sane beyond a reasonable doubt.

The burden is on the prosecution. WOW. I didnt realize that until now. This makes it much tougher on the prosecution because under Colorado law, JH is presumed insane until proven otherwise.

After reading this, I really think the state should have taken that plea deal. Why make their job harder on themselves when they could have gotten a life sentence penalty for the crimes. I suppose public pressure may have forced their hand.

Its going to be interesting to see how the jury ends up deciding this case and its going to be interesting to see how the prosecution makes attempts to prove JH sanity at time of crime.
I think they are indirectly doing that to some extent by showing all his preparation and planning. But it will be interesting as the trial proceeds if they start to directly address the sanity issue. Like will the prosecution begin to bring in any professional doctors that testify specifically about his sanity or not.

I think the prosecution needs to do that because I am betting the defense surely will. The defense will no doubt try to bring in professionals to claim he was legally insane at time of murders. So unless the prosecution has their own doctors testify to the opposite, then the jury may side with the defense. Maybe the prosecution will wait for rebuttal to bring in their own doctors.

This case is very interesting as it proceeds, although its also a very very sad one as well so its a tough one to follow along. I may have to take a lot of breaks from it due to the human tragedy aspect taking an emotional toll.

Thanks for sharing that article. Its really interesting to read through that study.

http://www.lsd-journal.net/archives/Volume6/InsanityPlea.pdf

 

[Chelly]

For an idea of the overwhelming amount of theater evidence being presented by prosecution: When I checked in yesterday, testimony was focused on row eight; today it is up to row 11.

 

[Maisiebelle]

I replied to your post when we carried over to the new thread. Did you see it @ Hatfield

 

[Hatfield]

That article was very interesting. It was long but I'm glad I persevered to the end!

In the opening statements the prosecution said they have evidence from two COURT APPOINTED psychiatrist's who both concluded (from 26 hours of interviews with JH - all to be shown in court) that he was indeed sane at the time of the shootings. I know the testimony will be long but I'm looking forward to hearing it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. I will need to try to be sure to watch that day. That will be very important to the prosecution to prove that. They have to prove it according to the law in Colorado.

I cannot believe that Colorado automatically assumes JH is insane just because he filed an insanity defense. I dont like the way Colorado does it but its their way.

I do like other things about Colorado. Especially their Rocky Mountains. Amazing. Best mountains in the US IMO.

 

[Maisiebelle]

For an idea of the overwhelming amount of theater evidence being presented by prosecution: When I checked in yesterday, testimony was focused on row eight; today it is up to row 11.

It is a lot for sure. I think the jury needs to hear and see just how many shots were fired.

iI was thinking.... I wonder what would happen if someone testified to something Holmes DIDNT do..... He hasn't said a single word (that I've seen) to his defence team. I wonder if he would actually react.

 

[Hatfield]

I replied to your post when we carried over to the new thread. Did you see it @ Hatfield

Yes, just saw it now and replied. Thank you.

 

[Maisiebelle]

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman 5 seconds ago

Judge, Spengler & Pearson take a walk to watch every time Pettolina steps over to floor model to mark the blue seats

 

[Maisiebelle]

Thanks. I will need to try to be sure to watch that day. That will be very important to the prosecution to prove that. They have to prove it according to the law in Colorado.

I cannot believe that Colorado automatically assumes JH is insane just because he filed an insanity defense. I dont like the way Colorado does it but its their way.

I do like other things about Colorado. Especially their Rocky Mountains. Amazing. Best mountains in the US IMO.

I do think its a strange way around things. If JH wants to say he is insane he should have to prove it. Anyone could just sit there and say they were insane if thats the case. Although it appears from that article that not many do.

"These defenses are commonly referred to as “excuse” defenses. Although rarely used, and seldom ever used successfully, the insanity defense has gained much public attention"

(quote from the article Hatfield referenced above)

 

[Maisiebelle]

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman 4 minutes ago

Judge again overrules objection by Spengler to introduction of one of the photos in the latest batch of evidence


How can Spengler be objecting to this evidence? Why some and not others. I don't understand it.

 

[corundogs]

Something I was thinking about again...brought up with that article posted and discussed about how the plea of insanity in Colorado works.

OK, let's play hypothetical here.

The Defense and JH win. He is ruled legally insane. He will be sentanced to a Psychiatric facility for the rest of his life. There is no one on God's Green Earth that would be OK with him getting out to live amongst the general population, no matter how well his meds work. (Let's say that is true too, though I am not entirely sure it is! But let's go with that!)

IMO, if I were the defendant/patient, I would rather be in prison than spend my life in a Psychiatric hospital!!! At least in prison, there is sort of a semblance of normalcy. They have rules and regulations, and are allowed small conveniences and luxuries.

In a psychiatric hospital, you are literally surrounded by "crazy" - every second of everyday! And I mean no disrespect, those people are as sick as someone with cancer. IMO, it would be harder to visit a psychiatric hospital than a prison. Not talking about my safety, but what I might see/hear/feel.

So while most of us want him to be found guilty...and may or may not want him to die by Death Penalty...IMO, I don't see a "win" to be in his favor.

I hope no one takes any offense to what I wrote here. I mean no disrespect to anyone!

 

[MissHaley]

I do think its a strange way around things. If JH wants to say he is insane he should have to prove it. Anyone could just sit there and say they were insane if thats the case. Although it appears from that article that not many do.

"These defenses are commonly referred to as “excuse” defenses. Although rarely used, and seldom ever used successfully, the insanity defense has gained much public attention"

(quote from the article Hatfield referenced above)

I agree, especially, since he first offered a guilty plea to avoid the DP! To me, that’s a clear indication of a “excuse” defense!

 

[corundogs]

For an idea of the overwhelming amount of theater evidence being presented by prosecution: When I checked in yesterday, testimony was focused on row eight; today it is up to row 11.

Yes, it is tedious to listen/watch.

And I was vocal about my thoughts on this...is the jury checked out, etc.

However, today...as she is moving along on the model...I can see how this is all truly "impactful". Since this is considered impact testimony. I am a bit confused if that means "impact" as in "WOW! That's a lot of gunshots" or "impact" as in "where each bullet impacted the seats, etc".

But since the law says it has to be presented this way, I am really glad they are doing it. To see it all on that model will be of great importance to that jury.

Of course, as always, this is IMO.

 

[Maisiebelle]

Something I was thinking about again...brought up with that article posted and discussed about how the plea of insanity in Colorado works.

OK, let's play hypothetical here.

The Defense and JH win. He is ruled legally insane. He will be sentanced to a Psychiatric facility for the rest of his life. There is no one on God's Green Earth that would be OK with him getting out to live amongst the general population, no matter how well his meds work. (Let's say that is true too, though I am not entirely sure it is! But let's go with that!)

IMO, if I were the defendant/patient, I would rather be in prison than spend my life in a Psychiatric hospital!!! At least in prison, there is sort of a semblance of normalcy. They have rules and regulations, and are allowed small conveniences and luxuries.

In a psychiatric hospital, you are literally surrounded by "crazy" - every second of everyday! And I mean no disrespect, those people are as sick as someone with cancer. IMO, it would be harder to visit a psychiatric hospital than a prison. Not talking about my safety, but what I might see/hear/feel.

So while most of us want him to be found guilty...and may or may not want him to die by Death Penalty...IMO, I don't see a "win" to be in his favor.

I hope no one takes any offense to what I wrote here. I mean no disrespect to anyone!

Well i've head some mental health issues in the past and you didnt offend me

I think he can be released from a hospital once they decide he is no longer insane. I doubt it would take long for him to get his act together and persuade them he is well again. Therefore he will have the chance of a life whereas life without parole in prison = never walking free.