CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 5

[DeadCat]

Did anyone hear what they decided about the child care issue with the juror? Will the juror have to be excused? Will the court find another way to provide care? Just curious...

 

[Maisiebelle]

The judge said that the juror has to bring the matter to his attention in 2 1/2 weeks when school ends. He said they don't know for sure there will be an issue till then.


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[Benny08]

Maisiebelle wanted to say thanks for adding the photos/screenshots today. I'm still early in the thread for today but you have added many photos already. Thanks!

 

[Maisiebelle]

You are very welcome! I'm stuck in bed sick so it kept me busy


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[atthelake]

Quick question...
If the jury finds JH guilty, will he automatically be sentenced to death or will the jury sit through a penalty phase and make a decision between LWOP and the DP? Or will the judge make that decision? I know it varies by state, I think.


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:moo: Supreme Court of the United States made the decision years back that ONLY a jury can do death penalty. It no longer varies state by state. Judges cannot give death.

We've seen this recently in a few cases here that judges come in for life/natural life/life without parole if the jury cannot decide. But if jury is deadlocked on life/death... the judge cannot give death now in the United States.

:moo:

 

[atthelake]

OK...the discussion on TDC just answered a question I posted earlier.

His first purchase was the gas mask, Clear Out and body armor, on May 10, 2012.

It wasn't until June 7th that he failed his oral exam. He bought his AR-15 the same day. And then in continues from there...

So, which came first - the chicken or the egg type situation? Did he fall into a psychosis in late April or early May, and come up with this diabolical plan?

Or did he plan this diabolical situation, and stopped focusing on his school work, that ended up with his failing and ultimately withdrawing?

Y'all may have known this already - and most likely did, because it has been laid out for a long time. I guess I never paid as much attention to the dates...and they make much more sense now that we have gotten to this point in the trial.

I just find it very interesting that he started making purchases, which means the plans were made before that, a month before he actually failed his classes and withdrew from the program!

I've been outta town listening infrequently, but I had that question also.

Is there a link ANYWHERE that lists when he purchased everything, in relation to his exams and his breakup... and I've yet to hear anything of the gal friend. Have I missed that?

TIA

 

[atthelake]

The Gold Patrol™ ‏@thegoldpatrol 27s28 seconds ago
#theatershooting

Jury?: While in theater did gunshots sound same?

A: Don’t recall

:thinking: Why is the jury asking this question? iirc, not the first time it has been asked.

 

[atthelake]

(I think I'm in love with this prosecutor. What's his name?)

DA - Mr. George Brauchler

 

[cujenn81]

:moo: Supreme Court of the United States made the decision years back that ONLY a jury can do death penalty. It no longer varies state by state. Judges cannot give death.

We've seen this recently in a few cases here that judges come in for life/natural life/life without parole if the jury cannot decide. But if jury is deadlocked on life/death... the judge cannot give death now in the United States.

:moo:

Thanks! I didn't know that!


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[Maisiebelle]

I'm getting the hang of Twitter. Go me!

I tweeted Larry Ryckman and asked him if he ever sees JH speaking to his defence team. He replied:

@larryryckman: "He has spoken to them outside the presence of the jury."


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[atthelake]

I wonder what the handcuffs were for?
More *fruity* stuff maybe? :thinking:

I had read earlier that he chose a theater that had doors which he could possibly handcuff closed to trap individuals iirc. I read that somewhere around the time, about how he investigated how many doors/exits were at each theater, and he chose carefully based on certain criteria which one was his target.

:moo:

 

[atthelake]

Its almost like 6 degrees of separation with this trial. Like

"Hey, I know you. Arent you my brother's friend's wife's tax accountant's husband? "

:floorlaugh: it is also 6 degrees of separation within Websleuths. Was funny how I found out I was 2 degrees of separation from Zuri here at Websleuths during a conversation we were all having on the threads in the Travis Alexander case.

:seeya:

 

[Dogface]

Just want to add my 2 cents here on the gun jamming, as I have experience with these guns and this is what I think may have happened:

When you first attach a clip/magazine to the gun, you pull this little lever spring thing to actually put a bullet in, so you don't just attach the clip and start shooting. If, for some reason you attached a clip and thought it was empty but there was a bullet already there, you would not be able to, causing the bullet in the clip to turn, and not giving you the correct motion of successfully loading it. I could see how someone would think this meant jammed.

 

[DeadCat]

If, for some reason you attached a clip and thought it was empty but there was a bullet already there, you would not be able to, causing the bullet in the clip to turn, and not giving you the correct motion of successfully loading it. I could see how someone would think this meant jammed.

So do you mean the gun would still fire that last bullet if the trigger was pulled, but the person loading may have THOUGHT it couldn't fire because loading the clip didn't result in the normal motion?

 

[Dogface]

So do you mean the gun would still fire that last bullet if the trigger was pulled, but the person loading may have THOUGHT it couldn't fire because loading the clip didn't result in the normal motion?

Yes! That's exactly what I meant! These guns are VERY well made, jams are typically unheard of. Think about it like this, you could bury one in mud, dig it up, rinse it off, and it would still work.

 

[Dogface]

Also might add when I was learning to use this gun, my instructor told me to always keep a count in my head of how many bullets I had fired, that way I was never surprised by one in the chamber.

 

[Hatfield]

Just want to add my 2 cents here on the gun jamming, as I have experience with these guns and this is what I think may have happened:

When you first attach a clip/magazine to the gun, you pull this little lever spring thing to actually put a bullet in, so you don't just attach the clip and start shooting. If, for some reason you attached a clip and thought it was empty but there was a bullet already there, you would not be able to, causing the bullet in the clip to turn, and not giving you the correct motion of successfully loading it. I could see how someone would think this meant jammed.

This makes sense.

I didnt pay attention much about the discussion about jamming and I havent been able to watch much of the trial because this PC I am on doesnt play videos. Its an older PC and there is some plug-in I cant get installed so videos dont work for me.

I rely on reading the great information here.

About the jamming. Wouldnt he only try to change clips though when he fired on an empty cylinder?

Like why was he trying to change clips unless he knew the gun was empty?

Clips usually "click" into place and like you said, you have to "work the action" to load a shell from the clip to the chamber. If he had tried to work the action while a shell was already in the chamber, then you are right that it would self jam becuse the new bullet would not be able to be loaded into the chamber and it would get hung up somewhere inside.

All he would have had to have done is remove the clip, remove the extra shell, and then reload the clip. But in his rush he may not have realized what happened and just went for another one of this weapons.

Im just not sure why he would have tried to change a clip unless he knew he was out of bullets. It seems he would have fired and got a "click" noise to know he had an empty gun before he would have tried to put new clip in.

Or some guns when firing the last round leave the action open and that way you know you are empty.

 

[Maisiebelle]

I don't think JH was very experienced with guns. Or at least it doesn't sound like he is. Do we have any information about whether he grew up with guns/shooting?


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[Maisiebelle]

I'm just reading that JH was the recipient of a prestigious national NIH Training Grant while he was pursuing a Ph.D. in neuroscience at the University of Colorado-Denver.

NIH explained the grant includes a "$21,600 stipend per year in 12 monthly installments to help defray living expenses while they pursue their academic research training experience."
Authorities are now determining whether or not this money was spent to amass his weapons.


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[Hatfield]

I don't think JH was very experienced with guns. Or at least it doesn't sound like he is. Do we have any information about whether he grew up with guns/shooting?


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I totally agree that JH did not have a lot of experience with guns. And especially with some of the new guns and equipment he bought.

Each new gun I have ever bought takes a lot of time to get comfortable with that particular gun.
You cant just go to the range once or twice and get proficient with a weapon.
It takes firing it multiple days and lots of times to get very comfortable using it. Each one is different and they all have their own "feel" to it. And their safetys, actions, etc. are all different.

From the testimony and evidence I believe we learned he went to the practice range. That alone tells me he was trying out new stuff he bought.

Also here is another important thing we learned from the testimony. He was buying after-market clips and high capacity magazines (clips). These after-market clips sometiems will not sit perfectly and lock into place perfectly. He may have purchased a clip that was off just a bit where it made it hard to seat it just right.

I believe after market Drum clips are notorious for having trouble with shells jamming and the clip fitting the gun right. I could have sworn I read where he bought a drum clip too.
If he did, that would be one type of clip I could see him having trouble with.