Thunder Street
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This person has an amazing heart for people, so it's a huge blessing to have come across. Perhaps through this one there will be more contacts to come. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have a small army working on this.
CO CO - Jaryd Atadero, 3, Comanche Peak, 2 Oct 1999
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This person has an amazing heart for people, so it's a huge blessing to have come across. Perhaps through this one there will be more contacts to come. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have a small army working on this.
BlkMtnGirl
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Hi, @Thunder Street. I just wanted to tell you I have been reading the book you sent. I am ashamed to say I have been having a very hard time reading it. I thought I was more stoic than I am. The passages where Allyn talks about his feelings tear me apart. I can feel his anguish, so much so that I’m dragging my feet about reading it. Please forgive me. I’m trying to highlight certain passages so that I can come back to them with more objectivity later. Do you have a streamlined timeline of events you can share? It’s not that I don’t care about the story. It’s the opposite. I can barely breathe when reading Mr. Atadero’s heartbreaking story. I’ve been dreading trying to explain this feeling to you, but I really want to try to help with the case and be part of the discussion. Thanks.
Thunder Street
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@BlkMtnGirl, thank you for sharing your feelings. I completely understand the difficulty in getting through his story. It is heartbreaking. It hurts the soul. I've faced his grief on video when I interviewed him last year. It is important to understand the impact this has made so you have the victim's perspective, as it will change the way you see and handle your own personal research on it. Yes, there are parts of the book that are slow and may not resonate as much. But my own personal experience was similar. At one point in the book, I nearly threw it across the room. I was angry for a long time and it still riles me up when I think about it.
Don't feel bad about taking your time. It was hard for me, too, for a number of reasons. Just means you're a compassionate soul. We can discuss what you know when you're ready. Questions are always welcome. Hopefully we'll have some news soon.
Hi Thunder Street, I am a scientist and would like to offer some hopefully helpful insights.
1) Hair identification isn’t anywhere close to an exact science, and this is the problem in a lot of forensic work - its done by amateurs who probably aren’t specialists in their field, and make bold assertions (It WAS this / it WASN’T that) without having the proper substantiation to back it up. It’s similar to forensic fire investigation, which was basically considered gospel until recently and a prominent “expert” who had been key in getting multiple convictions was basically proven to be completely wrong.
An amateur investigating the hairs would need specific kit to do so, and these days it should be done on a scanning electron microscope which is a bit of kit I highly doubt was used in this case, they probably used simple compound microscopes instead. At most, all they would be able to tell is whether the hairs found on the shirt were human or non-human.
With a good hair specimen, proper preparation of it, and the correct type of microscope, it would be possible to broadly differentiate between distinct species, but only on a comparative basis - i.e. if you knew you had a hair belonging to a dog, and a hair belonging to a cat, you could look at both and say which was which. But its far harder to take a hair sample and match it to a specific single species, and the literature in this field is rife with non-academic / enthusiast tier work.
2) DNA testing is again something that is frequently gotten wrong, or the results horribly misinterpreted , especially with regards to the scope of what the results can say. I’m particularly curious about the electrophoresis results and the suggestion they show two sets of DNA. It would be great if you could provide some more details about this, ideally from the lab itself. DNA testing is complex, and the test done was probably “DNA fingerprinting” which is used to determine the differences between humans by looking at non-coding genomic repeating sequences, but that won’t tell you much at all if your sample has animal DNA mixed in.
3) I’m also a little wary about this adherence to believing what a particular has expert has said about something - e.g. the forensic expert who said the damage marks on the skull was consistent with damage from hitting your head on rocks in a flowing river. That sounds like a sweeping statement, and there’s is almost no way you can qualify something like that - it honestly sounds like the forensic examiner is making it up, and he/she wouldn’t be the first.
I’m curious about which mountain lion experts were consulted, because I read another source which basically said the exact opposite - a number of mountain lion “experts” were consulted and concluded an attack was highly likely. I recall somewhere that people actually found specific puncture marks in some of the clothing, maybe the shirt - how thoroughly have the garments been inspected? Was this just internet rumouring?
1) Hair identification isn’t anywhere close to an exact science, and this is the problem in a lot of forensic work - its done by amateurs who probably aren’t specialists in their field, and make bold assertions (It WAS this / it WASN’T that) without having the proper substantiation to back it up. It’s similar to forensic fire investigation, which was basically considered gospel until recently and a prominent “expert” who had been key in getting multiple convictions was basically proven to be completely wrong.
An amateur investigating the hairs would need specific kit to do so, and these days it should be done on a scanning electron microscope which is a bit of kit I highly doubt was used in this case, they probably used simple compound microscopes instead. At most, all they would be able to tell is whether the hairs found on the shirt were human or non-human.
With a good hair specimen, proper preparation of it, and the correct type of microscope, it would be possible to broadly differentiate between distinct species, but only on a comparative basis - i.e. if you knew you had a hair belonging to a dog, and a hair belonging to a cat, you could look at both and say which was which. But its far harder to take a hair sample and match it to a specific single species, and the literature in this field is rife with non-academic / enthusiast tier work.
2) DNA testing is again something that is frequently gotten wrong, or the results horribly misinterpreted , especially with regards to the scope of what the results can say. I’m particularly curious about the electrophoresis results and the suggestion they show two sets of DNA. It would be great if you could provide some more details about this, ideally from the lab itself. DNA testing is complex, and the test done was probably “DNA fingerprinting” which is used to determine the differences between humans by looking at non-coding genomic repeating sequences, but that won’t tell you much at all if your sample has animal DNA mixed in.
3) I’m also a little wary about this adherence to believing what a particular has expert has said about something - e.g. the forensic expert who said the damage marks on the skull was consistent with damage from hitting your head on rocks in a flowing river. That sounds like a sweeping statement, and there’s is almost no way you can qualify something like that - it honestly sounds like the forensic examiner is making it up, and he/she wouldn’t be the first.
I’m curious about which mountain lion experts were consulted, because I read another source which basically said the exact opposite - a number of mountain lion “experts” were consulted and concluded an attack was highly likely. I recall somewhere that people actually found specific puncture marks in some of the clothing, maybe the shirt - how thoroughly have the garments been inspected? Was this just internet rumouring?
Thunder Street
Well-Known Member
@kage86,
1. The testing was done by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. They reported to the sheriff’s office that the hair sample was non-human but not from a mountain lion. They gave no further clarification. As far as identifying a hair, it’s as simple as matching against the characteristics of a known source, but they couldn’t provide matching characteristics to their control sample of mountain lion fur. This information was taken from the Sheriff’s report and from the book Missing: When the Son Sets.
2. There were two samples of remains tested: the skull cap and the mandibular molar. The test results from the skull cap initially yielded an 86% match to samples taken from Jaryd’s parents, which would not have qualified in court for the issuance of a death certificate. It wasn’t until 2014 when Technical Associates, a private DNA lab based in Los Angeles, was able to affirm that the skull was in fact Jaryd’s.
The tooth is a different story, and is the sample which yielded two sets of DNA in the electropherograms given to Allyn Atadero. When the tooth was discovered, pulp was absent due to decay caused by a broken root. The tooth was pulverized in an attempt to extract DNA and a second test was impossible. Allyn sent a copy of the lab results from the tooth to an independent lab that pointed out the two sets of DNA. This was the first time Allyn had any kind of interpretation of the results. The technician that responded to him also pointed out that there were specific terms (loci) that were used in reverse. Specifically, the plural ‘loci’ was used interchangeably with the singular ‘locus’, saying that lab technicians are usually hypersensitive about proper terminology.
Before I share anything, I would need to know your particular field of expertise and credentials. There are too many phonies out there as you've said, and I want to protect the integrity of this discussion as well as the Atadero family from misleading individuals.
3. No one mentioned the marks were from Jaryd hitting his head in the river. The marks on the skull were suggested to have been created after decomposition rendered the skull bare and subsequently scraped and knocked against the river rock.
The mountain lion experts are individuals respected in their fields, as well as one attack survivor. Again, I would refer you, but since you did not identify your particular field of science or any credentials, I am not comfortable sharing names or contact information until I can confirm you are a trusted source. The information they provided Allyn, which is included in one of my previous posts, contain no controversial remarks or unsubstantiated claims that cannot be easily researched.
The sources that claimed a number of experts pointed to a mountain lion attack are false. The sheriff’s department had only one expert and he had his doubts about a cat being the culprit, as did a veteran military tracker whom the sheriff falsely claimed was pushing the mountain lion theory. The mountain lion theory was the brainchild of the sheriff to avoid anything political. Identifying a mountain lion kill is not rocket science, and the state of both the remains and the clothing are inconsistent with that scenario to such a degree that even a layman can determine its inconsistencies.
The clothing has been examined extensively and contains a number of punctures of different shapes and sizes, and the hikers who discovered the clothing claimed they knew it was a mountain lion based on those punctures. The hikers themselves were not experts in any such field. Aside from that, as with the remains, there is far too little evidence to point to a mountain lion kill scenario.
1. The testing was done by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. They reported to the sheriff’s office that the hair sample was non-human but not from a mountain lion. They gave no further clarification. As far as identifying a hair, it’s as simple as matching against the characteristics of a known source, but they couldn’t provide matching characteristics to their control sample of mountain lion fur. This information was taken from the Sheriff’s report and from the book Missing: When the Son Sets.
2. There were two samples of remains tested: the skull cap and the mandibular molar. The test results from the skull cap initially yielded an 86% match to samples taken from Jaryd’s parents, which would not have qualified in court for the issuance of a death certificate. It wasn’t until 2014 when Technical Associates, a private DNA lab based in Los Angeles, was able to affirm that the skull was in fact Jaryd’s.
The tooth is a different story, and is the sample which yielded two sets of DNA in the electropherograms given to Allyn Atadero. When the tooth was discovered, pulp was absent due to decay caused by a broken root. The tooth was pulverized in an attempt to extract DNA and a second test was impossible. Allyn sent a copy of the lab results from the tooth to an independent lab that pointed out the two sets of DNA. This was the first time Allyn had any kind of interpretation of the results. The technician that responded to him also pointed out that there were specific terms (loci) that were used in reverse. Specifically, the plural ‘loci’ was used interchangeably with the singular ‘locus’, saying that lab technicians are usually hypersensitive about proper terminology.
Before I share anything, I would need to know your particular field of expertise and credentials. There are too many phonies out there as you've said, and I want to protect the integrity of this discussion as well as the Atadero family from misleading individuals.
3. No one mentioned the marks were from Jaryd hitting his head in the river. The marks on the skull were suggested to have been created after decomposition rendered the skull bare and subsequently scraped and knocked against the river rock.
The mountain lion experts are individuals respected in their fields, as well as one attack survivor. Again, I would refer you, but since you did not identify your particular field of science or any credentials, I am not comfortable sharing names or contact information until I can confirm you are a trusted source. The information they provided Allyn, which is included in one of my previous posts, contain no controversial remarks or unsubstantiated claims that cannot be easily researched.
The sources that claimed a number of experts pointed to a mountain lion attack are false. The sheriff’s department had only one expert and he had his doubts about a cat being the culprit, as did a veteran military tracker whom the sheriff falsely claimed was pushing the mountain lion theory. The mountain lion theory was the brainchild of the sheriff to avoid anything political. Identifying a mountain lion kill is not rocket science, and the state of both the remains and the clothing are inconsistent with that scenario to such a degree that even a layman can determine its inconsistencies.
The clothing has been examined extensively and contains a number of punctures of different shapes and sizes, and the hikers who discovered the clothing claimed they knew it was a mountain lion based on those punctures. The hikers themselves were not experts in any such field. Aside from that, as with the remains, there is far too little evidence to point to a mountain lion kill scenario.
Hi all - I have been following this case for a few years and was reminded of it a couple weeks ago. It brought back some questions I had that I never saw answered.
1. In all cases I have ever looked into every suspect, person of interest, or person involved has been named. I have been shocked that none of the Christian Singles group have ever been named (except the first name of the woman charged with watching the children). I find that VERY bizarre. Do you know why that is? Were their identities protected by the Sheriff’s department?
I’m not asking for names; I just find it very odd.
2. Have you been able to re-interview those from the Christian Singles group? Have they been cooperative? Has their stories changed at all?
3. I have heard over and over that the family and search and rescue teams were denied access to the trail to search for Jaryd. Can you confirm this as true?
If so, how long after Jaryd went missing did they close off the area? The day after he went missing or further down the timeline? How long was it before the trail was open back up to the public? Are there any regions of the park that people have never been allowed to visit?
Do you have any insight into why they did this? What is your personal opinion on why this was done?
4. The woman who was supposed to be watching Jaryd on the trail fell asleep. Did she have narcolepsy? Was she directly asked why this happened? Have you been able to ask her about this?
I know that’s a lot to ask but I think it would help clarify some aspects for me. Thank you!
1. In all cases I have ever looked into every suspect, person of interest, or person involved has been named. I have been shocked that none of the Christian Singles group have ever been named (except the first name of the woman charged with watching the children). I find that VERY bizarre. Do you know why that is? Were their identities protected by the Sheriff’s department?
I’m not asking for names; I just find it very odd.
2. Have you been able to re-interview those from the Christian Singles group? Have they been cooperative? Has their stories changed at all?
3. I have heard over and over that the family and search and rescue teams were denied access to the trail to search for Jaryd. Can you confirm this as true?
If so, how long after Jaryd went missing did they close off the area? The day after he went missing or further down the timeline? How long was it before the trail was open back up to the public? Are there any regions of the park that people have never been allowed to visit?
Do you have any insight into why they did this? What is your personal opinion on why this was done?
4. The woman who was supposed to be watching Jaryd on the trail fell asleep. Did she have narcolepsy? Was she directly asked why this happened? Have you been able to ask her about this?
I know that’s a lot to ask but I think it would help clarify some aspects for me. Thank you!
neesaki
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These are all good questions, Moss. The woman who fell asleep on the trail when she was supposed to be watching and responsible for a small child has always been and still is very hard for me to wrap my head around.
Welcome to Jaryd’s thread and to Websleuths !
Thunder Street
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The members of the group, most of whom were known to Allyn, were interviewed both separately and as a group accept for three members who had gone to a different trail called Roaring Creek Trail. The groups themselves were oddly inattentive that day, but the sheriff wasn't interested in an abduction angle. Plain and simple. The rest of the group's whereabouts were accounted for. There were negligence charges considered by the courts but ultimately never filed.
I've spoken to one of the group members but received no further information as his story checked out between him and Allyn. There are reasons I haven't spoken to the rest, and I know that many of them were traumatized by the event. It would have been difficult for one of them to make off with Jaryd, dispose of his body so thoroughly that a search dog couldn't find him, and get back to the group in time to cover their absence. Everyone accounted for each other's whereabouts.
This is correct. The Atadero family were threatened with arrest if they went up the trail, and experienced scent dog teams were turned away in droves. One tracker who has some media clout in Colorado threatened to tell the news media present if the sheriff didn't let him up the trail. He was subsequently allowed to look for sign. That tells you a lot about the sheriff's real priorities, and it wasn't finding Jaryd.
I've attached an image Allyn Atadero posted to his Facebook page that gives the timeline of the search. Keep in mind that the 'Wednesday' and 'Thursday' events on the right column are taking place in 2003, the year the article was written. To my knowledge, the trail wasn't closed off for more than a few days, and there were no forbidden zones cordoned off to hikers afterward.
I don’t believe she was narcoleptic. I know that she was a middle aged woman and not athletic. She did not tell the deputy who interviewed her that she had fallen asleep. She was by far the most distraught of the hikers. They did state she got tired due to the grade of the trail. It’s a tough trail if you’re not prepared. I’ve been on it twice and the first half is a challenging hike. I wouldn’t take a child on it, but as this woman was not driving her own car, she was at the mercy of the lead vehicle of the group and had no idea the trail would veer off so far. She was very close to the Atadero family for almost two years, and had taken the kids to the movies and babysat while Allyn looked for teaching jobs in neighboring Jefferson County. She moved out of state after this incident.
No problem. Questions are welcomed.
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K9Enzo
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I just discovered this case by catching up on missed episodes of The Vanished podcast. Webslueths did not disappoint by already having a thread started. I have so many questions but will start with these first.
-What were the weather conditions like the day Jaryd went missing? I’m assuming pleasant if this group of people decided to adventure on after visiting the fish hatchery.
- What was the temps/weather conditions like overnight?
-WHO’s idea from the group was it to continue on after visiting the fish hatchery?
-What is the age range of this group of people?
I’m assuming this was not a group of fit athletic people, although some certainly could be. I’m imagining a mixed bag.
-Did Josallyn (sister) give the statement at the time of her brothers disappearance, that it sounded like “someone putting a hand over his mouth and taking him” OR was that what she recalls months later, years later or even as an adult. I would like to know when this statement was made.
-This is a long shot because this was 1999. Were the SAR dog(s) that were authorized to search, did they have GPS collars? Were their track maps downloaded, are you able to review them? I may have misread this, but was there a dog that appeared to pick up Jaryd’s scent, then the dog lost it (this is common for many reasons in K9 searches)?
Finally, this little boy seemed curious, full of life and happy. This is an incredibly sad story….
-What were the weather conditions like the day Jaryd went missing? I’m assuming pleasant if this group of people decided to adventure on after visiting the fish hatchery.
- What was the temps/weather conditions like overnight?
-WHO’s idea from the group was it to continue on after visiting the fish hatchery?
-What is the age range of this group of people?
I’m assuming this was not a group of fit athletic people, although some certainly could be. I’m imagining a mixed bag.
-Did Josallyn (sister) give the statement at the time of her brothers disappearance, that it sounded like “someone putting a hand over his mouth and taking him” OR was that what she recalls months later, years later or even as an adult. I would like to know when this statement was made.
-This is a long shot because this was 1999. Were the SAR dog(s) that were authorized to search, did they have GPS collars? Were their track maps downloaded, are you able to review them? I may have misread this, but was there a dog that appeared to pick up Jaryd’s scent, then the dog lost it (this is common for many reasons in K9 searches)?
Finally, this little boy seemed curious, full of life and happy. This is an incredibly sad story….
BlkMtnGirl
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We have a current case on WS of a 3 year old boy, Casey Hathaway, who was found last night after two nights alone in the woods. He says a bear kept him company for two days. I couldn't help but think about Jaryd asking the fishermen if they had seen a bear. I'm not sure what to think of that.
Found Alive - NC - Casey Hathaway, 3, Ernul, Craven County, 22 Jan 2019 #2
Found Alive - NC - Casey Hathaway, 3, Ernul, Craven County, 22 Jan 2019 #2
Thunder Street
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The weather was cool but perfect for a hike. It snowed that night.
Temps during the week reached below freezing, and the nightly low was commonly in the 30’s. I do not have the exact weather data before me, though I do not believe that it played a significant role in Jaryd’s disappearance.
No one is named specifically, but they decided as a group to continue on. No one seemed to raise any concern about telling Allyn or bringing the kids back to the resort (they were supposed to be helping Allyn instead of hiking anyway, which adds to the oddness of the situation). I do know the name of the one who suggested the hike.
I’m assuming this was not a group of fit athletic people, although some certainly could be. I’m imagining a mixed bag.
Ages ranged from 27-56. Most were in their 30’s and 40’s with the latter being the majority. They did not know what kind of trail the Big South would be.
This was made during the search. Josallyn, to my knowledge, was never one to exaggerate even as a child. When Allyn was told about the sleeping incident on the trail and the scream, he was initially told these things by someone from the group. Josallyn confirmed both of these incidents when Allyn asked her.
Regarding the GPS collars, I have no knowledge of that either way right now. It’s something I will inquire about.
As for the dog that picked up Jaryd’s scent about a mile up the trail, the scent ended near a descent toward the river. They made an assumption based on this, that Jaryd had drowned and his body wouldn’t surface for five years because the water was so cold. The scent trail made a loop from Campsite #3 to #4 and back down to the trail, which then led north back up the trail for a short distance before it ended. This presents three problems: 1). If Alderden was eager to see the case closed, as others have testified, then this could be another fabrication of his. 2.) How do they know that the scent trail ended there? Who’s to say it didn’t start there? 3.) Jaryd’s scent was also hit at Campsite #2, which is 1100 feet north of #3. If a child was merely lost, covering that much ground would have taken a great amount of effort and time. It is very thickly wooded and difficult to navigate. A child would become worn out relatively quickly. It’s our belief Jaryd was gone from the mountain that afternoon.
Thank you for inquiring and for your interest in this case. Spread the word. It's only a matter of time before it breaks.
Julindy
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That was bizarre,bless that little boy Jaryd.x
MsFacetious
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Going with the hikers strange behavior, holding onto the clothes, etc. What are the odds that these two hikers would know where Jaryd had been tracked to in order plant the clothes? I hadn't realized that the tracker was at almost the same spot. I mean it's a huge area! Who had the knowledge of where the track led to, in order to plant the clothes there?
The Jaryd Atadero Case
In June of 2003, two hikers deviated from the Big South Trail and ascended an extremely difficult slope to the ridge above. After a long trek, one of the hikers called to the other claiming to have found something belonging to Jaryd. It was a shoe matching the style Jaryd was wearing the day he vanished. They also found his jacket, pants, and the other shoe. No human remains were found at this time. The location at which they recovered these items as 35ft to the left of where 'Seaux' attempted to point out to the sheriff. This site is located 550 vertical feet above the trail. The actual ground distance is 1500ft. A far cry from the river.
The Jaryd Atadero Case
In June of 2003, two hikers deviated from the Big South Trail and ascended an extremely difficult slope to the ridge above. After a long trek, one of the hikers called to the other claiming to have found something belonging to Jaryd. It was a shoe matching the style Jaryd was wearing the day he vanished. They also found his jacket, pants, and the other shoe. No human remains were found at this time. The location at which they recovered these items as 35ft to the left of where 'Seaux' attempted to point out to the sheriff. This site is located 550 vertical feet above the trail. The actual ground distance is 1500ft. A far cry from the river.
BlkMtnGirl
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Pulling this from @Thunder Street's post above:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/timelinejaryd-jpg.164935/
Who the heck is Shelley Lynne Goff? And what did she say?
ETA: Here's an article about Goff from the Denver Rocky Mountain News.
Denver Rocky Mountain News
It says Goff told Allyn that the lady in charge of Jaryd, Janice, the napping lady, had Jaryd, felt really bad about it and wanted to give him back. It also says the woman had told a different story and failed a polygraph (but she gives a reason why she failed.)
Respectfully, I wonder why Allyn doesn't believe Goff, and in this instance, trusts the Sheriff's office?
I sure don't mean to make this thread any more confusing, but really, this should have been brought up a long time ago.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/timelinejaryd-jpg.164935/
Who the heck is Shelley Lynne Goff? And what did she say?
ETA: Here's an article about Goff from the Denver Rocky Mountain News.
Denver Rocky Mountain News
It says Goff told Allyn that the lady in charge of Jaryd, Janice, the napping lady, had Jaryd, felt really bad about it and wanted to give him back. It also says the woman had told a different story and failed a polygraph (but she gives a reason why she failed.)
Respectfully, I wonder why Allyn doesn't believe Goff, and in this instance, trusts the Sheriff's office?
I sure don't mean to make this thread any more confusing, but really, this should have been brought up a long time ago.
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whatsnext
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Thank you for bringing this up, I somehow wasn't aware of this..
What happened there?! @Thunder Street
or others who remember this twist.
neesaki
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I don’t know, seems I remember reading about this quite some time ago and thought it was really strange then.Thank you for bringing this up, I somehow wasn't aware of this..
What happened there?! @Thunder Street
Not that everything about this case isn’t strange, the adult baby sitter taking the child on a hiking excursion without asking his father, then going to sleep on the hiking trail, then the Sheriff who seems to purposefully have obstructed the search. And the list goes on..... I’d forgotten all about this though. Hopefully Thunderstreet will weigh in on it when she checks back in.
BlkMtnGirl
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Yes, it sort of rang a bell for me, too, but I couldn't find it in a search of this thread.
neesaki
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I know what you mean, could we have read it elsewhere?Has gotten my curiosity up. Later....
Thunder Street
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A lot of activity here over the past few days. Thank you everyone for powering this up. I'll start by addressing everyone's concerns about Shelley Lynn Goff:
Goff was a charlatan looking for attention. Allyn initially trusted her because she did two key things for him: One was joining the fake "bird watching group" searchers formed to fool the sheriff so they could gain some access to the area. The second was after Allyn found out that the Sheriff had never followed up on the Mesa Verde sighting, claiming they couldn't find the park ranger who reported it. Goff actually called the park, got his contact info, and gave it to Allyn (turned out that the ranger called the sheriff's office and directly reported the sighting). She was seemingly sincere in her desire to help. But then a switch flipped and she became a different person. Her story about finding information on Jaryd's whereabouts changed three times: 1. Said he was sold into a Mexican labor camp and was attempting to get pictures from an informant. 2. She then claimed later that two women were holding him for ransom. 3. The family friend was then accused of taking him.
Allyn caught on pretty quickly to what was happening, and reported her to the sheriff. Though he didn't trust Alderden and his inner circle, he did trust the then undersheriff Ern Hudson as well as several deputies. Because of Alderden's willingness to get the case sewn up as quickly as possible, she was stung after her second story was a blatant contradiction but was suspected much earlier. It was an odd phenomenon. How did she go from honesty to a con? Allyn basically puts it as she simply was after attention. Seemed to be a lot of those folk out there were.
________________
Regarding the hikers who found the clothing, it is indeed a conundrum as to how they made a bullseye right to the site of the clothing, which of course just happened to be where Seaux had pinpointed. At the time, only Allyn, Seaux, and Alderden knew that location was a potential hit. That leaves only the perpetrator(s) as a fourth option. The hikers' stories in their written statements are full of holes, not to mention their 24 hour wait before they reported it. This does not mean they are guilty of taking Jaryd, but I suspect them of knowing more than what they let on. If you watch their interviews in the Missing 411 movie, their story changes again from what's written in the sheriff's report. Were they just scared they'd become suspects?
We have our suspicions on who's the culprit, but because of potential litigation issues, we can't reveal that here. Rest assured we have some direction and a little more traction going forward.
________________
I do want to refresh the group on how Jaryd got onto the trail in the first place:
1. Josallyn asked if she could go with the lady in question to see the fish at the hatchery. Allyn made sure that this was ok with the family friend, and he knew the hatchery was a good place for kids. I've been there and can definitely say I'd bring my own kids there if I had any.
2. Ten minutes later Jaryd caught wind of her going and wanted to come as well. Allyn refused outrightly, but was talked into it by a couple group members he knew. At this point, there were no plans to go anywhere else but the hatchery.
3. After they arrived at the hatchery, they decided it wasn't very interesting and went further down the road.
At no point was Allyn ignorant of their plans, as they never told him. They were supposed to be helping him ready the resort for winter anyway in exchange for a free weekend.
Goff was a charlatan looking for attention. Allyn initially trusted her because she did two key things for him: One was joining the fake "bird watching group" searchers formed to fool the sheriff so they could gain some access to the area. The second was after Allyn found out that the Sheriff had never followed up on the Mesa Verde sighting, claiming they couldn't find the park ranger who reported it. Goff actually called the park, got his contact info, and gave it to Allyn (turned out that the ranger called the sheriff's office and directly reported the sighting). She was seemingly sincere in her desire to help. But then a switch flipped and she became a different person. Her story about finding information on Jaryd's whereabouts changed three times: 1. Said he was sold into a Mexican labor camp and was attempting to get pictures from an informant. 2. She then claimed later that two women were holding him for ransom. 3. The family friend was then accused of taking him.
Allyn caught on pretty quickly to what was happening, and reported her to the sheriff. Though he didn't trust Alderden and his inner circle, he did trust the then undersheriff Ern Hudson as well as several deputies. Because of Alderden's willingness to get the case sewn up as quickly as possible, she was stung after her second story was a blatant contradiction but was suspected much earlier. It was an odd phenomenon. How did she go from honesty to a con? Allyn basically puts it as she simply was after attention. Seemed to be a lot of those folk out there were.
________________
Regarding the hikers who found the clothing, it is indeed a conundrum as to how they made a bullseye right to the site of the clothing, which of course just happened to be where Seaux had pinpointed. At the time, only Allyn, Seaux, and Alderden knew that location was a potential hit. That leaves only the perpetrator(s) as a fourth option. The hikers' stories in their written statements are full of holes, not to mention their 24 hour wait before they reported it. This does not mean they are guilty of taking Jaryd, but I suspect them of knowing more than what they let on. If you watch their interviews in the Missing 411 movie, their story changes again from what's written in the sheriff's report. Were they just scared they'd become suspects?
We have our suspicions on who's the culprit, but because of potential litigation issues, we can't reveal that here. Rest assured we have some direction and a little more traction going forward.
________________
I do want to refresh the group on how Jaryd got onto the trail in the first place:
1. Josallyn asked if she could go with the lady in question to see the fish at the hatchery. Allyn made sure that this was ok with the family friend, and he knew the hatchery was a good place for kids. I've been there and can definitely say I'd bring my own kids there if I had any.
2. Ten minutes later Jaryd caught wind of her going and wanted to come as well. Allyn refused outrightly, but was talked into it by a couple group members he knew. At this point, there were no plans to go anywhere else but the hatchery.
3. After they arrived at the hatchery, they decided it wasn't very interesting and went further down the road.
At no point was Allyn ignorant of their plans, as they never told him. They were supposed to be helping him ready the resort for winter anyway in exchange for a free weekend.
Thunder Street
Well-Known Member
I've been pondering the idea of doing a live chat to answer questions. This is not a certainty, but let me know if you're interested.