CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #10

[nursebeeme]

Without knowing where every single item was found and in what condition, I don't know. One guess is as good as the next guess. There are a lot of variables and assumptions being made but no confirmation. There won't be any official confirmation on theories or guesses, it will be crickets chirping in the meantime.

bbm: this is what we do while the crickets chirp

 

[Madeleine74]

Yes nurse, I know. It's a major sport.

It's all anyone can do (outside of keeping their eyes open around them and reporting anything suspicious).

 

[GrainneDhu]

To my knowledge, the only phrase LE has used is "not intact." That was quickly interpreted by some to mean dismemberment and, now, I see the word dissection is being used.

IMO, all I need to know is that she was "not intact". I am not interested in learning the details of how she came to be that way. But it does seem to be of interest to a lot of people.:waitasec:

I don't want to know exactly what was done to her.

I wish I did know, however, about how much the remains that were found weighed because that could rule in or out whether he could have hiked in to place the remains.

Figuring that a really fit person can hike long distances with a pack weighing about 50 pounds, if what was found weighed more than that then it would almost certainly rule out the perp hiking in to place the remains.

 

[miabellamoure]

There are two shacks, one of which is 150 feet away ... ample opportunity for someone to remain undiscovered in the area for hours. There are also several abandoned buildings on the other side of the road.

Here's a close up of the shack is a few hundred feet away from the location where Jessica's body was found. The access road is just to the right of the shack.

Except, would the perp's vehicle be visible to oncoming traffic as little as it might have been at that time?

Not to mention, are those shacks wide open? They appear to have some deal of demolition to them; possibly with walls missing leaving the interiors exposed to anyone to see inside as they drove by?

 

[SubtleGrace]

I think it will be discovered that the perp lives or works in the area where Jessica was taken.

If perp lives there, his home is the likely the primary crime scene. If he works in the area, his home, wherever it is located (another suburb, Denver proper, etc.), is still the most likely primary crime scene.

I do not believe this was a random creep passing through who simply stumbled across a great opportunity in Jessica that morning.

This person is IN this community, somehow part of it.

ETA I do think these partial or not intact remains were dumped. This is not the initial crime scene IMO

ITA, TL. He probably lives in one of the other neighboring towns NOT being searched by LE. He works in Westminster, or perhaps lived there as a kid.

 

[carbuff]

Hey guys, I have been mostly MIA from here this weekend and have only caught what's been said on the news. I was SO UPSET that the blue car pic apparently had nothing to do with the case, I'm sure I missed a lot of chatter about it. Personally I have been thinking way too hard about this, I've been dreaming about it nightly and this weekend while we were out Halloween shopping I swear I was in full on panic mode about where my little girl was.

Is there a place (timeline?) I can go to to get caught up? Last I was on was something like thread 7 and I just cannot go back. I see discussion above about the dismemberment and I feel like I missed some news.

TIA, I know it's annoying, but if somebody could give me a bullet-point response that would be enough!

Not a lot of any substance. A lot of pixels were spilled about whether they guy they arrested for the Cody abduction and rape was a suspect here, and it continued well after the Westminster police stated there was no connection. A lot of pixels spilled mostly rehashing old ground. Quite a bit of profiling speculation, some of which is very interesting.

And Mister Mayor was on Trish's radio last night with his profile theories.

I missed some of it because the Cody suspect was being arrested where I grew up and where I still have family connections.

 

[nursebeeme]

Yes nurse, I know. It's a major sport.

It's all anyone can do (outside of keeping their eyes open around them and reporting anything suspicious).

not sure I agree with you that it is a sport:waitasec:... but the rest is a go.

 

[Hatfield]

I have mainly followed this case by watching JVM + NG, as well as other MSM news.

I really think that LE would know by now whether they think animals were the only reason or not that the body was not in tact. I feel it is important that they let the public know one way or the other since it may affect the type of tips that are coming into LE.

For example, some people may not be calling in a tip because they feel a certain suspicious person would never cut up a person. Maybe the person did observe something suspicious about a person, but is not coming forward because they feel the person would never cut up a body like that.

A pack of coyotes could do some serious damage. I too thought coyotes could be the reason until I hear otherwise, because I have lost some chickens to coyotes, and have seen the damage they can do. Especially a pack of them.

I really feel LE should inform the public whether they think it was just animals or not. It seems to be very important IMO.

 

[sarx]

To the locals. In regards to the garbage truck that is still there, is there also LE staying with it the whole time? It makes no sense that they would just leave something connected to a case out in the open to be contaminated...

Of course, if it's not connected, then... kwim?

 

[scorekeeper]

Super interesting... that seems to make more sense to Google than Pattridge Park. I will have to check it out after things settle a bit.

A story from the Westword on Leyden, CO
http://www.westword.com/1996-10-03/news/down-in-the-hole/

Thank you so much for the article link. It was a nice change-of-pace read.

 

[tlcya]

To my knowledge, the only phrase LE has used is "not intact." That was quickly interpreted by some to mean dismemberment and, now, I see the word dissection is being used.

IMO, all I need to know is that she was "not intact". I am not interested in learning the details of how she came to be that way. But it does seem to be of interest to a lot of people.:waitasec:

It is of great interest to me. Morbid though it may be, whether the remains were not intact due to predation or due to specific actions taken by the perp can tell alot about the perp, etc.

To know what was the state of remains is to know if the perp is responsible for the state of them directly. This could be very helpful in profiling the perp and determining the time he spent with Jessica doing the deeds done (whatever they were). If indeed the perp was directly responsible for the not intact state of the body, tools were probably used, tools are identifiable, traceable, tools are sold, disposed of and can be located and sometimes positively matched and ID'd.

 

[callyn]

Yes nurse, I know. It's a major sport.

It's all anyone can do (outside of keeping their eyes open around them and reporting anything suspicious).

Sport? I am not thinking and trying to figure out how this monster operated for sport. JMO

 

[msthinksalot]

Attempting to drill down to the perp's possible thinking:

Backpack / water bottle evidence left in "Superior" = non-desolate, ~densely populated area and the perp's taunt to LE, him flaunting his "superior" ability?

Remains evidence left in area in Arvada = desolate, sparsely populated and somewhat abandoned area, the perp's "busy" or "work" time, or a staging area, or perhaps a next-piece of a larger puzzle to be discovered?

What was the perp feeling at those locations?

Dropping the backpack / water bottle in the populated area is perhaps a low to moderate risk as to time exposure and being 'caught in the act', a quick cheap thrill of 'possibly getting caught' but if caught, explainable as, "I found this back pack at such-and-such intersection and I thought it belonged to a kid who lives here / close by so I wanted to drop it off where it would be found by parents / kids." If he dropped that evidence over night then risk would be mostly low but still provide a minor 'thrill' and still send a message. I suspect the perp at that time had no other 'evidence' with him.

Dropping the body / remains evidence in the sparsely populated, unlit area (according to at least one interviewed resident in the general area) is none to low risk from arrival to exit but there was no need for a 'possibly getting caught' thrill as I suspect the 'thrill' at that location was derived simply from having what he had in his 'possession' and what he was doing, if anything, during that time.

Also, if there are more remains to be found, are those particular remains / locations part of a larger perceived 'puzzle' in the perp's mind?

Backpack/water bottle evidence drop = Very easy and quick to find.

Partial remains evidence drop = More difficult to find but close enough to a road to probably ensure it would be found sooner rather than later?

What else might be left and if there is anything left to find of the remains or of anything belonging to JR or the crime in general, how does it fit in with what has already been located and with what the perp wants to portray?

What/where is the next piece of the perp's puzzle? What pattern, shape might he be attempting to build/draw?

It seems there is triangulation at this point:
- Abduction Scene.
- Evidence Scene A.
- Evidence Scene B.
- ??

One interviewed profiler has commented his believes the perp might have been fantasizing this crime for "years". Does that mean it's years between when the perp commits his crimes or is this crime his first and there might be more to come, with less-than-years between, now that he's crossed that line from fantasy to reality?

Also, regarding the attached pic .. a possible match?

The guy in the middle/right is a spot-on match to the sketch IMO. Did you send it in? I just got confirmation from Arvada PD this morning about the photo I sent in on Saturday that looked like the "candyman" fellow...

 

[frankie069]

I guess I will repost this again to see if anyone knows. Do we know if Jessica's 2 friends told that she never showed up. Do we know if the neighbors usually saw her and that morning when she supposedly left for school either they did see her leave or they didnt. Do we know anything out of the ordinary. I also heard her bedroom was fully cleaned and the bed made, now the mom just got home from work so when was this done.

 

[LisaB]

I don't believe anyone has suggested dissection. LE confirmed "body not intact" which is entirely different than dissection. Many are alluding to the perp dismembering the body but that doesn't take a medical expert or anyone with specific knowledge. Think Zahra Baker. The step-mother in that case was barely qualified as literate, much less intelligent.

Warning: Graphic information​

Another thing that people don't appear to understand is that if the body was dismembered, it doesn't mean there would be a tremendous amount of blood evidence. If the dismemberment occurred several hours after death, the body would not "bleed" out due to the blood pooling, etc. A body doesn't bleed after death.

If LE was not immediately able to determine gender of the remains, "dissection" seems to be a possible explanation. It is equally possible that upper torso with upper limbs to the wrist and legs were found, meaning no fingerprints, skull, or genitals were found. I do not know whether or not Jessica was still in a "child's body" meaning her upper torso was not easily distinguishable as to gender. I am also reminded of the fact that the remains of Carnel Chamberlain were "not able to be immediately identified" due to having been burned, even though common sense would dictate that degree of decomposition, size of body, and lack of any other person matching that description being "missing" in the right time frame. Of course, it was even more clear in CC's case, as it was unlikely that someone outside the family unit could have gotten under the porch to bury a child.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jessica-ridgeway-killing-police-suspect-abductions/story?id=17478819

Police in Arvada, Colo., are looking for a man suspected of trying to abduct two children a few weeks before 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway's killing to see whether there is a possible connection.

In two reported incidents on Sept. 9 and Sept. 12, Arvada police said an 8- and 9-year-old were nearly abducted, according to police.

"Both of them said they were offered candy to get into the vehicle. In both incidences, they knew to run and tell an adult," Arvada police spokeswoman Jill McGranahan told ABC News affiliate KMGH-TV.

 

[twall]

To the locals. In regards to the garbage truck that is still there, is there also LE staying with it the whole time? It makes no sense that they would just leave something connected to a case out in the open to be contaminated...

Of course, if it's not connected, then... kwim?

Not a local, just a comment as to why it may have been left there.

WM doesn't work on the weekends so it wasn't picked up? :waitasec: I think it is odd it was left there. If LE wanted to examine the trash in it they would impounded the truck, imo. Does anyone recall when LE/Crime Scene Techs were done with the scene and it was no longer closed off to the public?

 

[rpgman]

I am deaf in one ear. Depending on which way my good ear is pointing, which way the wind is blowing and what the acoustics of the specific location are, I can be quite close to someone shouting and either not hear them or think they are shouting from a very different place from where they actually are.

No, I don't have a hearing aid because the nerve was destroyed; no amplification is going to work on that ear.

It is remarkably difficult to find reliable statistics about how many people there are in the US who are either deaf or functionally deaf; in large part, it's because no two studies define deafness and functional deafness in the same way.

The conservative guesstimate is that about 1 million people in the US have some form of hearing loss. Other estimates go as high as 5 million.

That means roughly 1 to 5 people in every 300 people are affected.

It may seem unlikely but please, if at all possible, make sure your target can actually hear you.

I've been hit by car twice in parking lots since I lost the hearing in one ear 18 years ago. Both times the drivers assumed I knew their vehicle was moving.

not an issue.

If the target isn't doing as I say, and my gun is pointed at them, and they threaten me in a manner, that I feel my life is being threaten, then they will be taken down.

 

[LisaB]

"See Blue's graphic post above near post #)

I think you have a good point. The word "Disecting" is very different from "Dismembering" or "Detached", etc. I have not read anything using that term, but if that was stated, it brings a whole different light to what may have occured. Makes me think of someone in the medical field. I'm not sure necessarily that every hunter could identify all of the appropriate gender parts.

Ed Gein was caught when the wife of a local shopkeeper disappeared. She was found gutted (field-dressed) and hanging in his shed, much as one would do with a deer. Dissection would accurately describe the condition of her body, although there was clear indication (aside from where she was found) that a hunter, and not a medical professional had done this. We have not gotten an official statement as to what parts were and were not found, and what condition the located parts were in. I'd take a facebook rumor with a liberal helping of salt.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I guess I will repost this again to see if anyone knows. Do we know if Jessica's 2 friends told that she never showed up. Do we know if the neighbors usually saw her and that morning when she supposedly left for school either they did see her leave or they didnt. Do we know anything out of the ordinary. I also heard her bedroom was fully cleaned and the bed made, now the mom just got home from work so when was this done.

The mom said that the police took the sheets "for the dogs." They made up her bed with fresh sheets after that. So this was done after she woke up, called the police, and the police had already been at her house investigating.