CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #10

[Hopefullyhelpful]

I had suspected from the get-go he orchestrated the text to explain why he had not reported her missing. Now I am wondering if willingly submitted his DNA was a sign of someone else being involved... So I we're both still in the dark as to whether it was his choice.... Is there a attorney in the house tonight?

MOO - The whole issue of him willingly submitting his DNA is pretty useless in the big picture if you really think about it. They were an engaged couple. His DNA should be all over her home. He saw and had contact with her the day she went missing, his DNA (assuming the day she went missing was a tragic day for her) should be on be on her person and could be explained as contact prior to demise. In other words, he had nothing to lose by volunteering his DNA and only had a "gain" in the cooperation category. With regards to his speaking only through a lawyer, much as it's frustrating, it's smart. It's the right thing to do. He, as her partner is the automatic suspect, and retaining counsel to represent his interest in the matter and protect him is the right thing to do for himself. It may appear cold and calculating, and it may actually be cold and calculating, but rest assured, if my son found himself in a similar situation, I'd advise him to do exactly the same. (Mind you - if he really was guilty, I'd drag him by the ear to the police myself.....but that's just me....) MOO

 

[Curiousobserver]

Let’s assume for a moment that PF did it (not much of a stretch for most of us). But now, let’s consider whether he had an accomplice, or whether he went solo.

I can see the benefit to PF in having an accomplice. It makes that trip to Idaho a lot easier and the phone gymnastics much easier to pull off. Honestly, I’m having a hard time seeing how he could go 1500 miles and nobody notice.

But... if he really did have an accomplice, and if they’re engaging in subterfuge and obfuscation with the phones, then WHY NOT DO SOMETHING WITH ONE OF KB’S VEHICLES? If he took her, then he has her purse and her keys. It wouldn’t have been hard with an accomplice to retrieve one of her cars at 3 am Thursday or Friday night and the accomplice could drive it pretty far off somewhere and dispose of it in a way that it wouldn’t be found for a long time, if ever. And thus PF really ups the ante on the missing person angle - KB obviously took her car so let’s do a manhunt between CO and WA and find her.

But he didn’t do that, and if he’s thinking thru how to pull off the perfect missing persons crime while deflecting suspicion away from himself, it certainly doesn’t involve leaving both vehicles there while being the last person to see her. So either he’s stupid, or he did this without involving anyone else to minimize risk. Because trying to get rid of someone’s vehicle would be too hard for one person to pull off without help, so he just had to leave the cars alone.

Yes- simply drive it into a body of water

 

[Curiousobserver]

MOO - The whole issue of him willingly submitting his DNA is pretty useless in the big picture if you really think about it. They were an engaged couple. His DNA should be all over her home. He saw and had contact with her the day she went missing, his DNA (assuming the day she went missing was a tragic day for her) should be on be on her person and could be explained as contact prior to demise. In other words, he had nothing to lose by volunteering his DNA and only had a "gain" in the cooperation category. With regards to his speaking only through a lawyer, much as it's frustrating, it's smart. It's the right thing to do. He, as her partner is the automatic suspect, and retaining counsel to represent his interest in the matter and protect him is the right thing to do for himself. It may appear cold and calculating, and it may actually be cold and calculating, but rest assured, if my son found himself in a similar situation, I'd advise him to do exactly the same. (Mind you - if he really was guilty, I'd drag him by the ear to the police myself.....but that's just me....) MOO

his DNA is only relevant if it is found somewhere it really shouldn't be- like under her fingernails. Le likely took pictures of him and made note of any possible defensive wounds

 

[jillianelaine]

Since I live near an adherent Adventist enclave I commented with some experience so I tried to find links to explain it clearly without having to read long texts but will link that as well.

Entertainment

Radio and television: Educational programmes, news and current affairs and classical music programmes are valuable. Adventists avoid programmes that are neither "wholesome nor uplifting".

Theatre and cinema: Adventists are advised not to go to the theatre, cinema (or, presumably to watch videos or DVDs), which, with other entertainments, are seen as partly responsible for the poor moral state of the world.

Dancing: Social dancing is not permitted.

Music: Some music is of great value, while other forms of music are dangerous:

Great care should be exercised in the choice of music. Any melody partaking of the nature of jazz, rock, or related hybrid forms, or any language expressing foolish or trivial sentiments, will be shunned by persons of true culture.

Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual

Social events

The Church Manual sets out a code of practice for social events, which are usually held in family homes, rather than commercial places of entertainment:

Social gatherings for old and young should be made occasions, not for light and trifling amusement, but for happy fellowship and improvement of the powers of mind and soul.
​

But then, to your point, we get to:

Sexual behaviour

Adventists adopt the highest standards of sexual behaviour.

Sex outside marriage is forbidden, and parents are expected to chaperone meetings between young people. Young people, for their part, are expected to take responsibility for avoiding sexual encounters.

Mixed marriages
Seventh-day Adventist ministers will not marry church members to non-members.
​

BBC - Religions - Christianity: Seventh-day Adventists


Regarding KB’s brother:

Current church policy states that openly homosexual (and "practicing") persons are to be welcomed into the church services and treated with the love and kindness afforded any human being.
​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church

More information:

Health :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

​

[/QUOTE
So maybe Kelsey was alienated from some of her former social circle as a result of some of the events that unfolded over the past two years. And maybe she felt alienated from the people she encountered the past two years who may have had a far different background . One can look at her lovely face and assume she'd fit into any crowd however given her background, this might be anything but true. This might explain why there seems to be few posts from her friends.

 

[nwmouse]

I think that some like minded men would help you to get rid of a body that was going to ask for child support. Have you never seen those men's rights groups?

Oh man, those guys are scary. I watched a documentary on Amazon and the way these men were ranting and carrying on about their hatred of women who divorced them and had custody rights made me SICK. They're like a hate group.
moo

 

[Advocate4]

Does his make/model of truck have a black box? And will a black box reveal where he drove during the relevant time period?

 

[FSUSeminoles]

They may be forbidden from speaking to the press, but of course they have every right to speak to LE.

I also find it odd in 2 years+ at one employer that she doesn't have a close work buddy, or several acquaintance level friends. Who does she eat lunch with?

But there is more:
- no known backup daycare in Pueblo or Woodland Park
- no mention of new mom friends made during birth classes or Lamaze
- no known church attendance of any affiliation (a lot of churches have daycare during services to give parents undistracted religion time and also provides babies with safe playdate time)
- no playdates with other moms/babies
- no Mommy&Me exercise class
- no local friends, no organized activities, no social activities with neighbors
- no one seems to know PF & KB as a couple either, except the 70 year old neighbor who thought he lived at her townhome

This!! I completely agree. I also find it odd that KB made no mention to CB during their phone call on 11/22 that she would be handing over the baby to PF. Which leads me to believe that PF and KB had completely different plans for the day. Or they had the same plans, fight or breakup ensues and KB disappears...my point is, PF’s plans were apparently different than KB’s, whether he knew it the day of or not.

 

[jillianelaine]

MOO - The whole issue of him willingly submitting his DNA is pretty useless in the big picture if you really think about it. They were an engaged couple. His DNA should be all over her home. He saw and had contact with her the day she went missing, his DNA (assuming the day she went missing was a tragic day for her) should be on be on her person and could be explained as contact prior to demise. In other words, he had nothing to lose by volunteering his DNA and only had a "gain" in the cooperation category. With regards to his speaking only through a lawyer, much as it's frustrating, it's smart. It's the right thing to do. He, as her partner is the automatic suspect, and retaining counsel to represent his interest in the matter and protect him is the right thing to do for himself. It may appear cold and calculating, and it may actually be cold and calculating, but rest assured, if my son found himself in a similar situation, I'd advise him to do exactly the same. (Mind you - if he really was guilty, I'd drag him by the ear to the police myself.....but that's just me....) MOO

Thanks for the explanation and also for being a good parent! Question. If a missing person is located in a field, or a shallow grave, is it possible that DNA evidence might appear in the surrounding area. Don't pick on me for not knowing this stuff. I sucked at science. In other words, is it possible the perpetrator is arrested because his DNA was on the tree beside the body, or a sheet or plastic bag? Thanks for making me a less ignorant person!

 

[1mtroyal]

MOO - The whole issue of him willingly submitting his DNA is pretty useless in the big picture if you really think about it. They were an engaged couple. His DNA should be all over her home. He saw and had contact with her the day she went missing, his DNA (assuming the day she went missing was a tragic day for her) should be on be on her person and could be explained as contact prior to demise. In other words, he had nothing to lose by volunteering his DNA and only had a "gain" in the cooperation category. With regards to his speaking only through a lawyer, much as it's frustrating, it's smart. It's the right thing to do. He, as her partner is the automatic suspect, and retaining counsel to represent his interest in the matter and protect him is the right thing to do for himself. It may appear cold and calculating, and it may actually be cold and calculating, but rest assured, if my son found himself in a similar situation, I'd advise him to do exactly the same. (Mind you - if he really was guilty, I'd drag him by the ear to the police myself.....but that's just me....) MOO

If a letter shows up today from Gooding Idaho from Kelsey, saying everything is O.K. she is just taking a vacation, and the police find out PF had licked the envelope, I think PF's DNA is important.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

Thanks for the explanation and also for being a good parent! Question. If a missing person is located in a field, or a shallow grave, is it possible that DNA evidence might appear in the surrounding area. Don't pick on me for not knowing this stuff. I sucked at science. In other words, is it possible the perpetrator is arrested because his DNA was on the tree beside the body, or a sheet or plastic bag? Thanks for making me a less ignorant person!

Excellent point! If remains are recovered in a place where his DNA should not be. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[cryscrys]

Let’s assume for a moment that PF did it (not much of a stretch for most of us). But now, let’s consider whether he had an accomplice, or whether he went solo.

I can see the benefit to PF in having an accomplice. It makes that trip to Idaho a lot easier and the phone gymnastics much easier to pull off. Honestly, I’m having a hard time seeing how he could go 1500 miles and nobody notice.

But... if he really did have an accomplice, and if they’re engaging in subterfuge and obfuscation with the phones, then WHY NOT DO SOMETHING WITH ONE OF KB’S VEHICLES? If he took her, then he has her purse and her keys. It wouldn’t have been hard with an accomplice to retrieve one of her cars at 3 am Thursday or Friday night and the accomplice could drive it pretty far off somewhere and dispose of it in a way that it wouldn’t be found for a long time, if ever. And thus PF really ups the ante on the missing person angle - KB obviously took her car so let’s do a manhunt between CO and WA and find her.

But he didn’t do that, and if he’s thinking thru how to pull off the perfect missing persons crime while deflecting suspicion away from himself, it certainly doesn’t involve leaving both vehicles there while being the last person to see her. So either he’s stupid, or he did this without involving anyone else to minimize risk. Because trying to get rid of someone’s vehicle would be too hard for one person to pull off without help, so he just had to leave the cars alone.

possible her cars have lo jack or on star?

 

[rangerover12]

Riddle me this

What 3 things need to be cleared up to solve this case?

Of course
What one thing would make an otherwise civil man mad enough to kill his daughters mother? - without remorse?
And
How did the ping get to Idaho?
And
why did they dig up that earth?

The answer to the first is in the DNA, what KB bought at the store, what made KB look fatigued and what was found in her bathroom trash.

The answer to the second, can be discovered if we know KBs cell phone make and if PF had a cell phone booster in his truck.

The 3rd would be answered if PF used to have a brush hog.

 

[Kapua]

Riddle me this

What 3 things need to be cleared up to solve this case?

Of course
What would make a man mad enough to kill his daughters mother?
And
How did the ping get to Idaho?
And
why did they dig up that earth?

The answer to the first is in the DNA, what KB bought at the store, what made KB look fatigued and what was found in her bathroom trash.

The answer to the second, can be discovered if we know KBs cell phone make and if PF had a cell phone booster in his truck.

The 3rd would be answered if PF used to have a brush hog.

Yup.

 

[Gardener1850]

Since I live near an adherent Adventist enclave I commented with some experience so I tried to find links to explain it clearly without having to read long texts but will link that as well.

Entertainment

Radio and television: Educational programmes, news and current affairs and classical music programmes are valuable. Adventists avoid programmes that are neither "wholesome nor uplifting".

Theatre and cinema: Adventists are advised not to go to the theatre, cinema (or, presumably to watch videos or DVDs), which, with other entertainments, are seen as partly responsible for the poor moral state of the world.

Dancing: Social dancing is not permitted.

Music: Some music is of great value, while other forms of music are dangerous:

Great care should be exercised in the choice of music. Any melody partaking of the nature of jazz, rock, or related hybrid forms, or any language expressing foolish or trivial sentiments, will be shunned by persons of true culture.

Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual

Social events

The Church Manual sets out a code of practice for social events, which are usually held in family homes, rather than commercial places of entertainment:

Social gatherings for old and young should be made occasions, not for light and trifling amusement, but for happy fellowship and improvement of the powers of mind and soul.
​

But then, to your point, we get to:

Sexual behaviour

Adventists adopt the highest standards of sexual behaviour.

Sex outside marriage is forbidden, and parents are expected to chaperone meetings between young people. Young people, for their part, are expected to take responsibility for avoiding sexual encounters.

Mixed marriages
Seventh-day Adventist ministers will not marry church members to non-members.
​

BBC - Religions - Christianity: Seventh-day Adventists


Regarding KB’s brother:

Current church policy states that openly homosexual (and "practicing") persons are to be welcomed into the church services and treated with the love and kindness afforded any human being.
​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church

More information:

Health :: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church
​

Thanks. I know a few SDA and they don't follow any of those rules (except for the perhaps the sex outside of marriage-- my friends I know are all married and I assume would be against their spouses having affairs). The ones I know are split 50/50 on being vegetarians.

If Kelsey DOES avoid certain music, doesn't dance and avoids certain media/theater due to her religious beliefs, however, what does that have to do with her being missing now? What would that tell us? We shouldn't look for her in a line-dancing-country-western bar?

 

[MyBelle]

Let’s assume for a moment that PF did it (not much of a stretch for most of us). But now, let’s consider whether he had an accomplice, or whether he went solo.

I can see the benefit to PF in having an accomplice. It makes that trip to Idaho a lot easier and the phone gymnastics much easier to pull off. Honestly, I’m having a hard time seeing how he could go 1500 miles and nobody notice.

But... if he really did have an accomplice, and if they’re engaging in subterfuge and obfuscation with the phones, then WHY NOT DO SOMETHING WITH ONE OF KB’S VEHICLES? If he took her, then he has her purse and her keys. It wouldn’t have been hard with an accomplice to retrieve one of her cars at 3 am Thursday or Friday night and the accomplice could drive it pretty far off somewhere and dispose of it in a way that it wouldn’t be found for a long time, if ever. And thus PF really ups the ante on the missing person angle - KB obviously took her car so let’s do a manhunt between CO and WA and find her.

But he didn’t do that, and if he’s thinking thru how to pull off the perfect missing persons crime while deflecting suspicion away from himself, it certainly doesn’t involve leaving both vehicles there while being the last person to see her. So either he’s stupid, or he did this without involving anyone else to minimize risk. Because trying to get rid of someone’s vehicle would be too hard for one person to pull off without help, so he just had to leave the cars alone.

KB's housing complex was pretty small and if a neighbor noticed PF's truck was often there then a neighbor also might see PF and an accomplice take off in KB's car. Too risky, imo. I'm not discounting an accomplice handled the texts/phone, however. Very possible. Especially if PF has another girlfriend and she's pregnant. JMO

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

So I'm almost 100% in the obvious solution is the answer camp, but there is one little thing that is niggling at the back of my mind.

I (used to be) a recreational pilot. Are there any pilots reading on here, are you having the same niggly feeling? I recall through my flying club being excited about a new plane we acquired that I was not rated to fly, but I really wanted to go up in. I would have not thought twice if one of the other pilots called me up and said hey, I'm going up....wanna come? I also recall from my club many pilots doing just that, especially on a weekend or holiday, if there wasn't anything to do, the weather was great, people just hung out.... I'm certain that LE has checked and double checked to be certain that she was not a last minute passenger or co-pilot. All personal flight log books of co-workers, friends any flight club she belongs to?

Just thinking out loud.....

 

[mountainman]

So in far fetched land, .1% chance, does anyone else think it’s possible KB was taken for her flying ability AND ability to teach others to fly? (Like by a drug cartel from another country )

This thought actually did cross my mind. It was before I created an account though.

 

[Delevanjo]

I have skimmed through all of the threads but can't find any posts mentioning if dogs have been involved in the search of PF's (or is it his mother's?) property. Has anyone heard or read of dogs being used at all in the investigation? Why wouldn't search dogs or cadaver dogs be used? Had/has too much time passed?

Aside from my search dog question/comment few other bits of my randomness below if anyone has time/interest to reply:

• Are there active searches for KB in the areas (such as where her phone last pinged)?
• LE took PF's truck under the search warrant, didn't they? (This would be one reason why he had to find "friends" to help him dispose of trash recently)
• Wouldn't LE need some compelling reason to have the truck included in the search warrant?
• To me, it sounds as if KB left/departed her home with every intention of returning within a few hours (not an extended trip or visit).
• A holiday -- particularly Thanksgiving Day in the US -- is a "good" day to commit a crime. Almost everyone does something on this day (in some way shape or form), but it is the most heavily travelled holiday and most everyone is busy inside preparing, visiting, etc. (not necessarily noticing what the neighbors are up to/coming going etc). (Our family business experienced an attempted cyber-theft late on the Wednesday before the holiday; thieves assume people are closed, traveling, busy, etc)
• Is PF an only child? Is it only he and his mother? Any family of his around, speaking out?

Apologies if I missed the info above in earlier posts/discussions (feel free to just tell me to go look again ha!)... trying to catch up ....

 

[Jade]

Thanks. I know a few SDA and they don't follow any of those rules (except for the perhaps the sex outside of marriage-- my friends I know are all married and I assume would be against their spouses having affairs). The ones I know are split 50/50 on being vegetarians.

If Kelsey DOES avoid certain music, doesn't dance and avoids certain media/theater due to her religious beliefs, however, what does that have to do with her being missing now? What would that tell us? We shouldn't look for her in a line-dancing-country-western bar?

Just that her social circle may be smaller than some more typical circles of her age group.

My post was in response to one wondering why not more commentary from those who know her or are acquainted with KB.

I guess we are sort of fundamentalist in all of our religions around here….

But eating meat, listening to secular music, not observing Saturday sabbath, oh my!


all imo

 

[MyBelle]

So I'm almost 100% in the obvious solution is the answer camp, but there is one little thing that is niggling at the back of my mind.

I (used to be) a recreational pilot. Are there any pilots reading on here, are you having the same niggly feeling? I recall through my flying club being excited about a new plane we acquired that I was not rated to fly, but I really wanted to go up in. I would have not thought twice if one of the other pilots called me up and said hey, I'm going up....wanna come? I also recall from my club many pilots doing just that, especially on a weekend or holiday, if there wasn't anything to do, the weather was great, people just hung out.... I'm certain that LE has checked and double checked to be certain that she was not a last minute passenger or co-pilot. All personal flight log books of co-workers, friends any flight club she belongs to?

Just thinking out loud.....

If she decided to go flying at the last minute, she still had to find care for her daughter. Thanksgiving is usually considered a day to spend with family when there are children involved. I think KB genuinely thought she would see PF and do a "family" activity with the baby whether it be dinner or a tree. And if she were pregnant, that is not something she would share right away with her mother, imo.