CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #4

[Peppery]

I’m not sure the baby’s last name is significant other than it would sound really funny with PF’s last name. A plausible explanation for giving her KB’s last name.

 

[Starry Night]

New statement today from PF's lawyer:
Authorities searching Kelsey Berreth’s fiancé’s home in Teller County
KOAA.com | Colorado Springs and Pueblo, CO | Always Watching Out For You
“Patrick Frazee continues to cooperate with law enforcement in the missing person investigation of Kelsey Berreth. We understand that a search warrant was executed on Mr. Frazee’s property. Mr. Frazee was never asked to voluntarily participate in this search. We encourage law enforcement to take whatever steps it deems necessary to find Kelsey Berreth and to be able to exclude Patrick Frazee as a possible suspect in this missing person investigation. Mr. Frazee will continue not to participate in any interviews with the media and instead focus on parenting the child he shares with Ms. Berreth.”

 

[alucardsdream]

What if he is in jail and she made a will stating that she wanted her parents to have custody if neither she nor the child's father can look after the child?

{edited for clarity}

I think CPS would get involved and it would be up to the court to determine what's in the child's best interest.

 

[kspoon45]

What if he is in jail and she made a will stating that she wanted her parents to have custody if neither she nor the child's father can look after the child?

{edited for clarity}

Wouldn't they have to determine Kelsey was dead first?

Unrelated. And this is a horrible question but would cadaver dogs be able to determine if a scent was of a dead body specifically? For ex, could they use one in the truck they towed away to determine that there was something of interest there versus Kelsey's "regular" scent? Does that make sense?

 

[gitana1]

The U.S. Constitution (specifically 5th Amendment) may help you understand.

Yes. I mean we get frustrated when it comes to missing or dead persons but holy hell - I don't want to live in a fascist dictatorship.

Perhaps there's simply confusion about what various terms mean and the effect of interrogations?

No one - bystander, witness, POI or suspect has to speak with LE. Ever. The fifth amendment protects against that.

Anyone can speak to LE voluntarily.

If someone is "taken in for questioning" involuntarily, that means they have been arrested. Miranda warnings must be given. They can ask questions after that but if the suspect asserts their right to silence and to an attorney, any further questioning would render further answers as inadmissible evidence.

The suspect designation is important because even if not technically under an arrest, it can be dangerous to a question someone LE knows is a suspect and has designated them as such, without a prior Miranda warning. It starts creating potential problems with admissibility.

 

[oviedo]

What if he is in jail and she made a will stating that she wanted her parents to have custody if neither she nor the child's father can look after the child?

{edited for clarity}

In my state, you would still have to bring a guardianship if the child is under 18 - it helps if the Will names who you want but they still need a formal guardianship of the person and property. An emergency temporary guardian can be appointed the same day but the Court will still appoint an attorney to represent the child only for the guardianship and for Letters to be issued. IMO and based on the Statutes

 

[PommyMommy]

Stephanie S. KRDO on Twitter
TEAM COVERAGE @ 4/5/6pm - We’re live in Florissant covering the latest on the Kelsey Berreth case. Press conference at 2:30 - join us on #KRDO

 

[Kapua]

Wouldn't they have to determine Kelsey was dead first?

Unrelated. And this is a horrible question but would cadaver dogs be able to determine if a scent was of a dead body specifically? For ex, could they use one in the truck they towed away to determine that there was something of interest there versus Kelsey's "regular" scent? Does that make sense?

Cadaver dogs are trained specifically to detect the scent of human decomposition. Dogs can also be trained to air scent. In Laci Peterson's case they called them "trailing dogs."

 

[Cardgame]

Wouldn't they have to determine Kelsey was dead first?

Ah yes, sorry that was a response to a response to my original response, which was hypothetical. Gosh, what a terrible, terrible situation for all involved. I can't imagine why the grandmother wouldn't be allowed to see the baby in this situation, it seems very cruel.

 

[PommyMommy]

Wouldn't they have to determine Kelsey was dead first?

Unrelated. And this is a horrible question but would cadaver dogs be able to determine if a scent was of a dead body specifically? For ex, could they use one in the truck they towed away to determine that there was something of interest there versus Kelsey's "regular" scent? Does that make sense?

Yes. They are trained to alert to cadaverine.
Cadaverine - Wikipedia

 

[BRRI]

They can indicate on human remains YEARS later.

The dogs in the Watts case impressed me so much. They were able to indicate potential “stress areas”- likely where parts of the crime may have happened.

 

[oviedo]

What if he is in jail and she made a will stating that she wanted her parents to have custody if neither she nor the child's father can look after the child?

{edited for clarity}

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...children.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1mn5Mxh1l64mEZjMR-hwN4
Apparently the DOJ has considered this and has a white paper on it.

 

[kspoon45]

Yes. They are trained to alert to cadaverine.
Cadaverine - Wikipedia

So the dogs would be able to reasonably alert to the combination of Kelsey's scent and cadaverine? Man, the questions I never thought I'd ask.

 

[bestill]

What year is his truck? Looks new enough to have some type of gps monitoring system.

 

[gitana1]

Almost like he doesn't want anyone talking to the baby without him around. Would a one year old offer any insight? They're not even talking by then, are they?

That's pretty young to be able to say anything significant even if she was an early talker.

Although my brother was an early talker. At 14 months he could say some simple three word sentences "Ik zie paard!" (I see horse!)

Hmm. It would be unusual.

 

[gitana1]

As the custodial parent he would have a say in who takes temporary custody of the baby *unless* KB's family files for temporary custody in family court and makes a case for why they should have temporary custody.

Bingo.

 

[cuffem]

They are saying they cut the lock off the fence but when I watched to video it just shows them pushing the gate open. Is this bad reporting or what? IMO

This video shows cutting of the locks.
Investigators search home of missing Colorado mom's fiance

 

[kspoon45]

That's pretty young to be able to say anything significant even if she was an early talker.

Although my brother was an early talker. At 14 months he could say some simple three word sentences "Ik zie paard!" (I see horse!)

Hmm. It would be unusual.

Consider, though, we don't know the motive if PF did actually do it. Maybe he was obsessed with KB and she left, now it extends to his daughter. Maybe he is a stressed and upset fiance and his daughter is all he has to tie him to KB. If I were in his shoes, I would have her with me all the time.

 

[Kapua]

So the dogs would be able to reasonably alert to the combination of Kelsey's scent and cadaverine? Man, the questions I never thought I'd ask.

You have different dogs for each task. Cadaver dogs for a deceased person and trailing/tracking dogs for a live person.