CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #57 *ARREST*

[PommyMommy]

So........if that general list is "parred down" to HALF of it's present size, that specific list is up to the end of the first week of trial. My question stands? Who could possibly be next?
Still just asking. IMO

I don't know who is next, but I do know they're going to select a jury first.

 

[katydid23]

BBM. So do I. Please don't twist what I said into an accusation I'm blaming the victim.

I'm not aware that KB purchased her condo, I thought it was purchased by her parents. My husband and I helped our adult children purchase homes. Our daughter lived in her home a year before she married the father of her three children. He paid half the mortgage. As you point out, it isn't the '50s.

I sure don't agree that living in the condo would be inconvenient for PF. KB told her mother she was helping him with his cattle in the wee hours the night before. That doesn't sound like it was an inconvenient distance for either one of them. I think the jury is going to wonder why-- if PF wanted her dead and "disappeared"--why he didn't kill her during that wee hour trip to the cattle in that wide expanse of Colorado's great outdoors.

JMO

Have you ever lived on a working farm/ranch? It would be incredibly inconvenient to live somewhere else. The necessary chores on a ranch are never-ending. From dawn to way past dusk. And many are emergencies. A cow giving birth in the middle of the night needs immediate attention. And his mother was in no physical shape to wander the pastures to keep an eye on things.

I don't think he ever considered leaving his dogs and his cattle and his mother, by moving into a condo.

Sure, they might wonder why he didnt kill her out in the cow pasture that night. But then they'd remember her vehicle was there, and maybe others knew she was with him. How would he explain that?

And the next day was Thanksgiving. What happens when her family calls, expecting her to be home that day? It would set alarms in motion way too soon.

I think his plan, that he went with, was way better than doing it in the cow pasture. Other than his stupid decisions about carrying her cell around and fake texting everyone. JMO

 

[katydid23]

KK's aunt is a witness?

She was with KK when she took the Starbucks Frappuccino to the condo, IIRC.

 

[Steelslady]

She was with KK when she took the Starbucks Frappuccino to the condo, IIRC.

I know, I just found it funny to see her name on the witness list. Just what is she going to say? "oh my niece and I were looking at a trailer for my horse, and uuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmm uuuuuuuuuummmmmmm uuuuuuuummmmmmmmm, she decided to buy this random lady her favorite coffee from Starbucks because, uuuuuuuummmmmmmm, someone told her it was this lady's favorite coffee, but I didn't know who the lady was?"

 

[gitana1]

Because a reporter asked the question at the news conference and CB strongly emphasized they never lived together and cited financial reasons why they hadn't married.

JMO

I’m still not seeing how that’s a point for the defense?

 

[SandyQLS]

Honestly, no, and that speaks volumes to me. But seeing KK in the short vid clip at the Sonic floored me as well.

@steeltowngirl could add to her list

Sonic security re: video proves KK in WP

also
PKeys, former EntFCU manager
MStein, former paralegal

CC and his wife PC, as well as RS, and perhaps SF1 & SF2, might be Defense witnesses, not Prosecution witnesses. How does each person show the Prosecution case?

 

[Seattle1]

BBM. So do I. Please don't twist what I said into an accusation I'm blaming the victim.

I'm not aware that KB purchased her condo, I thought it was purchased by her parents. My husband and I helped our adult children purchase homes. Our daughter lived in her home a year before she married the father of her three children. He paid half the mortgage. As you point out, it isn't the '50s.

I sure don't agree that living in the condo would be inconvenient for PF. KB told her mother she was helping him with his cattle in the wee hours the night before. That doesn't sound like it was an inconvenient distance for either one of them. I think the jury is going to wonder why-- if PF wanted her dead and "disappeared"--why he didn't kill her during that wee hour trip to the cattle in that wide expanse of Colorado's great outdoors.

JMO

Respectfully, no victim blaming assumed, inferred by your post. Don't see why it's a point for defense. And my post was specific to your own words that I'll quote for your convenience:

@MyBelle said: ↑
There has been an unanswered question that the defense will bring up: why didn't KB and PF live together? Did they live apart because KB's parents strongly disapproved of having children and living together before marriage? unquote.

bbm

 

[steeltowngirl]

@steeltowngirl could add to her list

Sonic security re: video proves KK in WP

also
PKeys, former EntFCU manager
MStein, former paralegal

CC and his wife PC, as well as RS, and perhaps SF1 & SF2, might be Defense witnesses, not Prosecution witnesses. How does each person show the Prosecution case?

Good additions. Also could add:

Hospital staff when KB2 was born
KK’s whereabouts on Thanksgiving verifying person - family?
Reps from Gas stations along the way from Idaho - receipts and surveillance
Cracker Barrel video
KK’s employer
Landfill people where PF went few days after murder
Nash ranch owner
Whoever PF was venting to in jail
People whose animals he beat

I think the prosecution will have witnesses and the defense will cross examine and Vice Versa. I’m sure each side will work the narrative to their best advantage. That’s what lawyers do!

 

[steeltowngirl]

KK's aunt is a witness?

Oh, I’m just making guesses at witnesses. I think KK’s aunt went along for one of the rides to Colorado when KK was supposed to poison coffee or swing a metal rod, but chickened out and went for beers with her auntie instead.

 

[Dave F.]

KK's aunt is a witness?

(never mind)

 

[MemPat]

Good additions. Also could add:

Hospital staff when KB2 was born
KK’s whereabouts on Thanksgiving verifying person - family?
Reps from Gas stations along the way from Idaho - receipts and surveillance
Cracker Barrel video
KK’s employer
Landfill people where PF went few days after murder
Nash ranch owner
Whoever PF was venting to in jail
People whose animals he beat

I think the prosecution will have witnesses and the defense will cross examine and Vice Versa. I’m sure each side will work the narrative to their best advantage. That’s what lawyers do!

-Neighbors who noticed huge fire/weird smell the night the black tote was burned?
-Records of PF's purchases for the year he's been planning the murder.....from bats to totes to gasoline to gloves to bleach and, of course, scented candles. (Interesting to see if he filled his truck up more than usual for a distant trip to dump remains.)
-LE friends of Frazee's brother who may have heard "talk".

 

[Seattle1]

Don't forget CPS being called to the hospital after the birth of little KB after PF became enraged enough the nurses delayed bringing little KB to the parents until after CPS investigated. All this has been linked and discussed previously

I was really disappointed this evidence was not allowed by the Court, but I do understand the decision.

 

[Snowsnake]

That tent outside the courthouse is beyond belief.

So dumb.

Talk about creating a circus atmosphere.

This judge has gone waaaaay overboard with his mollycoddling of PF.

Blocking off access to the (public!) sidewalk.

Pitching protective tents outside the courthouse.

Banning audio.

Banning video.

Banning photos.

Now it looks like he's also going to ban live tweets from inside the courtroom.

This is NOT what transparent government looks like.

JMO.

Possible the tent will be there as snow will come shortly to the area. The altitude is around 9500 feet if I remember correctly. Some Court Houses have a Sally Port to bring prisoners in and out as well as juries. Teller County is to old for that type of security.

 

[SandyQLS]

I was really disappointed this evidence was not allowed by the Court, but I do understand the decision.

When did the Court disallow this "evidence"? I must have missed that. As far as I remember, this story was never introduced by the Prosecution at the Prelim. I do wonder if the Defense is able to question CB1 about this matter since the story is retold in the SW's (SW18-112 page 7) as support for the SW. The Defense could then introduce documents from the hospital such as the security guard logbook, nursing notes, even medical records for KB and Baby K, that may tend to refute or dilute CB1's story. I do not believe CB1 was present at the birth, which is only IMO, so she can only relate hearsay under the exception, ie, KB told her. All JMO.

ETA: ref. page for SW. IMO/JMO.

 

[Warwick7]

I was really disappointed this evidence was not allowed by the Court, but I do understand the decision.

I was disappointed also. However, the conversation with CB will be let in! Bam!

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
A phone conversation between Kelsey & Cheryl Berreth on Nov. 22 described Kelsey’s day & other plans. Judge says they will be allowed. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

bbm

 

[Hatfield]

The state said they’d be whittling down that witness list considerably.

“Prosecutors originally submitted a list of 255 possible witnesses, but today they informed the judge they've reduced that number significantly, in an effort to accomodate a three-week rather than a three-month long trial. A final list will be provided to the defense before jury selection, at the latest.”
Frazee back in court for pre-trial hearing on murder case

Hmm. There appears to be a lot of criticism of the state by some that I don’t totally understand.

Ive been trying to catch up and Im not sure of any of the other criticism of the State but I have one from this that I would like to question.

Does the prosecution have to whittle down their witness list just because of a pre-ordained schedule? Trials, IMO, should take as long as they take to present witnesses and convict the accused defendant. If it takes over 200 witnesses and 3 months to get their whole case presented then so be it.

Why is the Prosecution being forced to pare down a 3 month case to just 3 weeks just because of some pre-ordained schedule?

Is that common that the Prosecution has to follow timeline guidelines presented to them by a judge? I always thought the judge would ask the lawyers how long their parts are going to take and then they schedule accordingly?

This doesnt make much sense to me if lawyers are forced under timeline guidelines for their entire case presentation?

Im probably misunderstanding something.

 

[MyBelle]

What hasn't happened in this case?

You don't think some people privately told LE that they suspected PF of involvement here?

My reference was to the friends who very publicly stated they suspected Chris Watts. Particularly the neighbors who allowed him to spend the night.

I hope some people have privately told LE they suspect PF and why. I hope the DA has a lot more evidence than just KK.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Ive been trying to catch up and Im not sure of any of the other criticism of the State but I have one from this that I would like to question.

Since when would the prosecution have to whittle down their witness list just because of a pre-ordained schedule. Trials, IMO, should take as long as they take to present witnesses and convict the accused defendant. If it takes over 200 witnesses and 3 months to get their whole case presented then so be it.

Why is the Prosecution being forced to pare down a 3 month case to just 3 weeks just because of some pre-ordained schedule?

Is that common that the Prosecution has to follow timeline guidelines presented to them by a judge? I always thought the judge would ask the lawyers how long their parts are going to take and then they schedule accordingly?

This doesnt make much sense to me if lawyers are forced under timeline guidelines for their entire case presentation?

Im probably misunderstanding something.

From what I heard about the hearing last week, the judge doesn't want a continuance but, geez, there is a ton of evidence that is just coming in to the DA's office from the FBI and other places and they are trying to get it over to the defense. It sounds like there is a LOT of information to wade thru by both sides.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

I talking about the friends who very publicly stated they suspected Chris Watts. Particularly the neighbors who allowed him to spend the night.

I hope some people have privately told LE they suspect PF and why. I hope the DA has a lot more evidence than just KK.

JMO

I don't think it matters if people accuse him publicly or privately. What matters is that LE is pointed in that direction Sio they can investigate him further.

Kelsey's friends and family did not want to rile PF up, while he had the baby in his clutches. CSW had already killed his babies so people were quicker to publicly blame him.

 

[katydid23]

From what I heard about the hearing last week, the judge doesn't want a continuance but, geez, there is a ton of evidence that is just coming in to the DA's office from the FBI and other places and they are trying to get it over to the defense. It sounds like there is a LOT of information to wade thru by both sides.

JMO

In most trials I have followed, evidence continues to come in, even after the trial begins.