CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #7

[Jennifer17]

Well, I don't mean to quibble, but it looked like what I would call working with them: that is, training them and then selling the trained dogs.

But my question was about whether those videos were removed because of a rules violation? Otherwise, it looked pretty fascinating.

I have no idea if they were removed or not, but I can tell you that training dogs who have an innate ability to herd, is not teaching them to herd by tying them on short leashes and encouraging them to lurch aggressively at cattle. Do you know anyone who trains herding dogs like that?
He seems to be a cruel man to me.

 

[SuperTmo]

Colorado recognizes parental kidnapping. If you do not have court orders about parenting, each parent has equal rights and can take the child anywhere and never return. Unless you can find the parent and child and get physical custody of the child, you are out of luck. If you have a court order, then you have to abide by it or be subject to parental kidnapping charges if you leave the state.

If KB wanted to leave for vaca or to live elsewhere (and rent her townhouse out?), she could have taken their child with her since they did not have court orders as far as we know. Maybe she told him she might do that and instead of filing for divorce to keep her in state, he freaked and got rid of her. If she found there was mistreatment of the child while in PF's care and threatened to take the child and keep her from PF and his family, the same result could have occurred.

I think this is about custody, given that the result of her being gone is that he has the child in his sole custody.

All he would have had to do to keep her in state, absent an existing parenting plan, is go to court during the daily ex parte docket and ask for an emergency order restraining her from taking the child out of state. He could have even asked for emergency temporary custody. I had to do this and it was done before lunch time. He didn’t even need to give her advance notice. They would have given him the temp order and figured it out at the official hearing. A simple google search would have told him that.

Also, if she left the state with the baby, the court would still make her bring the kid back pending resolution of the case. That is the the state that had jurisdiction over the three of them. It’s not like he couldn’t go and kidnap the kid back. She would have needed a court order for custody to prevent that and the court in her new state would most likely decline the case due to not having jurisdiction. This is what happened to my sister when she moved states to get away from abusive ex. She had to go back and do court in her own state because he filed in the home state and they made her move back with the kids.

 

[Gardener1850]

Since PF has access to horses and experience riding, do we know of any remote areas near Woodland Park (or his property) that one could only access via horseback?

ETA: Or his property

 

[Seattle1]

Well in the first press conference, the police chief said the welfare check was done on December 2 after the mother called police - so I don't think the mother and brother would have had time to get into town yet? But that is a good question.

I believe that LE did the wellness check and opened a missing person file on December 2 after establishing that KB was not inside her house. However, I also think that LE searched with warrant days later and/or when mom and brother arrived Woodland Park:

Authorities searched Berreth’s home and found her suitcase, makeup and vehicles untouched.

“After arriving at Kelsey’s house…and combing through things, we know one thing [is] certain, Kelsey did not pack to go anywhere,” her brother, Clint Berreth, wrote on Facebook. “All luggage is here. Her purse is all that seems to have gone.”

Everything we know about missing Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth

 

[PommyMommy]

In the video clip above at 6 secs* it shows Kelsey walking into the store and there is a man walking in front of her. Does anyone think that man looks like PF? He is the right height, right build, similar hair and has a black jacket on. It's probably unlikely to be him or that would have been mentioned by LE right? But seeing these photos above, I just noticed that man has a similar black jacket on as the one PF has on after getting into his truck outside the attorney's office. It's odd that PF seems to have that black jacket on inside the truck and then takes the jacket off again when he gets out to confront the reporter at his gate who followed him home. The reporter is wearing long sleeves and yet here is PF outside in short sleeves in mid December. What were temps like that day? And why would anyone wear a jacket inside their truck but not outside? Or were those photos of PF and the truck taken on different days?

*ETA: Gah, I just tried to watch the video again at the link and it has been changed (I was trying to post this when the thread got closed). I'll try to find a similar video somewhere else.

ETA 2: Ok, the video below is clearer than what I saw before and the man seems to be walking with a small child-- so I'm thinking for sure not PF. But the jacket inside the truck but not outside is still interesting to me:

Dang it Gardener, I watched that three times before I saw your edit. I thought I must be going blind, lol! The jacket thing is weird. I don't know what it could mean, though.
MOO

 

[gngr~snap]

Well this country type has three family member who are LE.

"The Golden Child"
Moo

 

[EmilyVan]

Since PF has access to horses and experience riding, do we know of any remote areas near Woodland Park that one could only access via horseback?

maybe not Woodland Park but ALL around HIS property and surrounding areas. All moderatly wooded and hilly and accessible via dirt road (per Google satellite images). TG day was mild. the day after was chilly and kinda windy. Saturday was very very high winds with snow. Sunday the 25th was more mild weather but cold. (I was in Black Forest during this time at my parents and we lost power the 24th from 10p-12a). If anyone here has Google Earth that would be kinda neat. IMO

 

[EmilyVan]

Well, I don't mean to quibble, but it looked like what I would call working with them: that is, training them and then selling the trained dogs.

But my question was about whether those videos were removed because of a rules violation? Otherwise, it looked pretty fascinating.

those are easily found on the YewTewb with his name

 

[gngr~snap]

But half his family is in LE..... his brother, his mother.

So her safety is not at risk with Daddy, but mommy basically abandoned her...
Is that how anyone sees it?
Seems like the family of dad is ok with that scenario.
Moo

 

[Gardener1850]

Dang it Gardener, I watched that three times before I saw your edit. I thought I must be going blind, lol! The jacket thing is weird. I don't know what it could mean, though.
MOO

Lol, I thought I was losing my mind too. I promise they updated the story and changed the video. Now it has an interview with PF's neighbor that was not in there before. About the jacket-- I tried to go back and find the long reporter video where he chased PF down to see if was can see PF putting the jacket on and I'm coming up empty. Not my night, I guess.

 

[EmilyVan]

So her safety is not at risk with Daddy, but mommy basically abandoned her...
Is that how anyone sees it?

not me. MOO. seems super suspect... MOOOOOOO

 

[SoVeryMe]

True, but we don’t have any solid evidence of that going on here.

Even if we did, and there were documented mental health issues, there are way too many red flags for me atleast, to seriously consider an alternate scenario.

Mental health issues or not, it’s beginning to look an awful lot like foul play.

I was in no way implying that KB suffered from some type of mental illness but I also am not ruling out the possibility, just as I’m not ruling out the possibility foul play may be likely. With the facts of the case we have presented to us there is no solid lead or evidence revealed. I’m considering all possibilities and not boxing myself into the obvious “the fiancé did it”. His behavior has been strange, shifty and not the typical grieving SO.

I’ve worked as a nurse in healthcare and education for several years, I can’t help but feel my skin crawl when I read someone post their Dr. Google expert opinion.

 

[mzufall]

I don't post often, but this case has really sucked me in and you guys are fast! It has been a struggle keeping up!

This case screams Michele Parker. I'm just praying it's a better outcome! Sadly, IMO, PF knows every detail of what happened to KB. I hope I'm wrong...but we shall see...

 

[Charlot123]

Not sure. I am not a psychic at all, but my gut feeling is, if someone harmed her/whoever did it, he'd be too scared to dispose of it close to the place. We always read about things being found by tourists or animals, and I don't think he'd risk it.

I do think that it started voluntarily on her part, maybe he said, we'll buy the toiletries on our way, or, it is getting dark, we have a hotel booked, or whatever. One could not risk doing anything bad and driving on Thanksgiving day when police is everywhere, and cars are routinely stopped. So nothing happened to KB that day. She was in the car, I presume, unharmed, maybe sleeping.

We don't even know if there is another road to South Idaho, and maybe the reason she did not take anything from the house is because they stopped at his house to drop off the kid first, and then took off from there. (This could explain the dichotomy between accounts, "picked up" - "dropped off", IRL, probably, both things happened. Picked the kid up at her house and invited her in his car, and then dropped off the kid with mom and took off with KB).

So I'd assume 23-24th is the time something happened, if it did, and searching close to the house will not yield much. Her phone must simply have died out en route, or he switched it off as she was sleeping, and no one recharged it.

I wonder if his car tires should have any different soil on them?

But the phone GPS and car GPS (if it has one) telling some route story, and some numbers other than KB's but not common to Gooding pinging in that area on the 25th, are still possibilities.

As I am posting it I realise that all of it indicates premeditation rather than an accident, but maybe it was 50/50.

 

[Gardener1850]

I was in no way implying that KB suffered from some type of mental illness but I also am not ruling out the possibility, just as I’m not ruling out the possibility foul play may be likely. With the facts of the case we have presented to us there is no solid lead or evidence revealed. I’m considering all possibilities and not boxing myself into the obvious “the fiancé did it”. His behavior has been strange, shifty and not the typical grieving SO.

I’ve worked as a nurse in healthcare and education for several years, I can’t help but feel my skin crawl when I read someone post their Dr. Google expert opinion.

Take the fiance out of the equation for a minute. There are a few facts which are strongly against the possibility of KB disappearing because of mental illness:

1. LE has said her disappearance is "suspicious"-- they would not say that if they thought she left on her own or may have self harmed.

2. Kelsey is a flight instructor and commercial pilot. She has to pass regular medical testing, including mental health testing and drug screening in order to keep her FFA certification. There are no indications she was ever in danger of failing her medical exams or losing her job.

3. There is nothing to point to KB having any form mental illness. Not one thing. Certainly it happens, and is the cause of many missing persons, but it does not seem to be the case here.

JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

Take the fiance out of the equation for a minute. There are a few facts which are strongly against the possibility of KB disappearing because of mental illness:

1. LE has said her disappearance is "suspicious"-- they would not say that if they thought she left on her own or may have self harmed.

2. Kelsey is a flight instructor and commercial pilot. She has to pass regular medical testing, including mental health testing and drug screening in order to keep her FFA certification. There are no indications she was ever in danger of failing her medical exams or losing her job.

3. There is nothing to point to KB having any form mental illness. Not one thing. Certainly it happens, and is the cause of many missing persons, but it does not seem to be the case here.

JMO.

Her chance of having a mental illness is the same as anyone else's, but I don't think it played the role here. I am with @MassGuy, it had to do with the kid.

But what pretext PF used to make her get into the car is another question.

What if the tables were turned, and he asked her to drive him somewhere? People here have alleged, her mental issues, her substance abuse, all unproven, but what about PF? Any history of alcohol abuse or emotional issues on his side? (Statistically, the same chance). The tables might have been turned. Asking her to drive him to a treatment facility, is it even possible?

What are the TOS rules about PF?

 

[Seattle1]

I was in no way implying that KB suffered from some type of mental illness but I also am not ruling out the possibility, just as I’m not ruling out the possibility foul play may be likely. With the facts of the case we have presented to us there is no solid lead or evidence revealed. I’m considering all possibilities and not boxing myself into the obvious “the fiancé did it”. His behavior has been strange, shifty and not the typical grieving SO.

I’ve worked as a nurse in healthcare and education for several years, I can’t help but feel my skin crawl when I read someone post their Dr. Google expert opinion.

There are several red flags with PF, and don't think they are by coincidence. I'm also not ignoring the possibility of postpartum depression, and a women reluctant to seek treatment as an aviator. Foul play -- stranger abduction does happen: just weeks ago Hania Aguilar was kidnapped out of her own driveway when her murderer hijacked the family's vehicle as it was idling /warming before making the morning school run; and 2 women murdered during summer in Iowa while jogging, and other golfing. Until PF is cleared as suspect, I'm keeping my eyes are on him. KB needs to be reunited with her child now. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Her chance of having a mental illness is the same as anyone else's, but I don't think it played the role here. I am with @MassGuy, it had to do with the kid.

But what pretext PF used to make her get into the car is another question.

Yeah. My main point is that even if we were to have evidence of that sort of thing, I still don’t think it factored in to what happened here.

I don’t believe she left on her own, because certain things are pointing in a different direction.

This looks exactly like what someone would do, if they were trying to cover up a crime.

I think that how he got her in the car (if that what happened), depends on the nature of their relationship and what was going on with them.

It appears he achieved his goal, no matter the method.

 

[mzufall]

Quick question, and forgive me if it has been answered, I've done a lot of skimming trying to catch up.
Has it been verified, or has it been determined to be rumor, that PF hasn't allowed the grandparents to see the baby?

 

[MassGuy]

Quick question, and forgive me if it has been answered, I've done a lot of skimming trying to catch up.
Has it been verified, or has it been determined to be rumor, that PF hasn't allowed the grandparents to see the baby?

The grandmother has said that she hasn’t seen her grandchild since the disappearance.

She has not explicitly said that he is keeping his daughter from Kelsey’s mother, but that seems to be the implication.

Unless something has changed in the past couple of days, then that is likely still the case.