CO CO - Roger Ellison, 17, Cedaredge, 10 Feb 1981 #2

[lgr]

Hello everyone,

I have been interested in Roger's disappearance for decades. I have posted here several times. A few things that Mr. Pash mentioned in his posts have stuck in my mind, and I have some questions for him.

Mr. Pash explained the type of psychology/Freudian assignment he gave the class: a series of "single-word response for the 2 words/phrases that were part of the in-class free association exercise." He didn't remember all of the words/phrases he came up with, "except for 2 of them- the 2 that the detective asked me what they were and which he focused on. And then he showed me what Roger had written, and I was shocked. It was the same answer for both."

What were the two words/phrases that elicited the same single-word response from Roger? Mr. Pash gave examples of the type of words/phrases he used: red/green, parents/family, church/religion. Okay, so what single word would be so shocking and appropriate for two words/phrases? Blood? Murder? Homosexual?

Mr. Pash wrote that others were responsible for the situation Roger found himself in; he outlined that one of Roger's options to deal with his situation was "[t]o confront those responsible for the situation." So, I think we can extrapolate that more than one person would likely judge Roger harshly for his situation, perhaps his entire community, in 1981.

Mr. Pash also said he would only reveal Roger's two responses if he is "required to as a legal matter." But, in another post Mr. Pash wrote "for the next 15 years or so, I actually used Roger’s circumstances when discussing free association with my classes as an example of how it could help a therapist go in a certain direction of inquiry. But when I found out that he hadn’t been found (a rumor is after all, just a rumor), I stopped using it as an example. But that means about 1500-1800 former students know Roger’s story." So, he has revealed the mystery phrases and other details of Roger's disappearance without any legal consequences.

What were "Roger's circumstances" and "Roger's story", Mr. Pash? After so many years, and with so many people aware of the details, why not everything (again) now to us? It's your choice, of course, but would you give it some thought?

Thank you,
lgr

 

[lgr]

I hate it when my proofreading is sub-par. This phrase, "why not everything (again) now to us", should read "why not reveal everything (again) now to us".

 

[Danaya]

I'm not sure why so many people are taking Mr. pash at face value. His tone and his posts have really not added anything, except to deflect from himself and add to confusion. We have no record of any "Freudian assignment" from anyone but Pash himself.

Pash is a person of interest. He is the ONLY person of interest.

I don't recall, but I wonder what Pash's allibi was. If he could account for the hours Roger went missing. I think he said he was teaching. Certainly if he were then it would add to his innocence. I wonder if his wife and children were home. I wonder why a few ex students have made allegations of drug use and parties at the Pash household.

I do not think Roger ran away. He didn't take anything. He did not plan on leaving to start a new life, say, in San Francisco. Police believe soneone he knew killed him. Who would have motive? We will never know. I wish new investigators would reopen this.

 

[Danaya]

If Roger ran away, his money would not be untouched.

If his friends knew his plans, as Pash insenuates, then why has nobody come forward? Have they?

Authorities believe he was killed by someone he knew. They know things we don't.

No history of runaway behaviour, parents do not believe he ran away.

Allegations (unsubstantiated and online) against person of interest, Mr. Pash, that he had used his power over students to harm them.

“I dont know if you were responsible for Roger Ellison’s disaperance,but I do know that you used your position of trust and psychology to manipulate certain students. (even if they were wanting to be a part of your life) They trusted that you had their best interest in your thoughts and that they were special. Isnt that what you wanted? You took no heed that your actions might have side effects.
People can use their knowledge for or against or for their own personal wants. We all have things we need to ask forgiveness for and I do beleive you have a consequence now or later.”

“I was in 7th grade at the time Roger disapeared. It impacted my older sibling, who was one of those teenagers meeting at Mr. Pash’s house.
Who knew that 3 1/2 years later I would be a victim of his “so called” counseling. Yes their was definitely drug use, drinking, and under age sex going on. I know because I was there. He cannot deny it!
It took me a few years after it happened to realize what happened and that it wasnt my doing. I was just a kid with low self esteem and thats exactly the kind of kids he preyed upon.
Unfortunately highschools are filled with them. A great hunting ground for someone like Mr. Pash.
I am doing great now. I have a lot of confidence and hardly give a thought to this predator any more. A friend of mine told me about this web site so I had to take a look.
It does trouble me and always has that this predator still teaches and is probably still abusing his power.
I did talk to investigators years ago, but unfortunately it was to late to prosecute for what was done to me. Im always hoping someone whom it is currently happening to will have the courage to talk.”

Pash: What do you say in response to these comments? You can find them here: https://findrogerellison.wordpress.com

This website is full of speculation and theories. I'm trying to make sence of the circumstances and validated information, just like anyone else.

 

[Danaya]

Thank you Mr. Pash,

Great points raised. I really think that Roger has a serious personal conflict in his life, which was brought out in your class' assignment. I think it helped you see Roger's pain in a way that no one else could see, or understand. Roger couldn't take the conflict, his friends couldn't handle what ever the issue was, if it ever was revealed to them Roger's issue was too shocking and painful. It seems that if Roger had stayed, other people would have found out about his personal pain and conflict. The small town almost reminiscent of the kind of values associated with something out of the Salem Witch Trials. People who didn't follow the simple, if even simplistic views of the community where deeply ostracized for views that violated the social norms, or what we would see today in a modern society as a "backward belief" system.

I believe that Roger had more emotional pain than anyone could understand, and probably left to get away from the personal issues that must of pained him for a very long time. I share Mr. Pash's concern that it seems odd that no one really took the time during the day Roger vanished to inquire why he did not go to any classes, or to go to the office to ask about him? It seems that by the time somebody cared and got a search mobilized, Roger was sadly, long gone.

When did people actually consider that Roger never came back after being seen at his locker, and actually start searching? Perhaps quicker community involvement could have helped Roger with this problem, or even some concern in the weeks to months before that day? Nothing was "fine." and I think that these issues were a part of Roger's life for a very long time.

Satch

Everything you've written here is based on Mr.Pash's [unsubstantiated] claims.

 

[Kamy]

I'm not sure why so many people are taking Mr. pash at face value. His tone and his posts have really not added anything, except to deflect from himself and add to confusion. We have no record of any "Freudian assignment" from anyone but Pash himself.

Pash is a person of interest. He is the ONLY person of interest.

I don't recall, but I wonder what Pash's allibi was. If he could account for the hours Roger went missing. I think he said he was teaching. Certainly if he were then it would add to his innocence. I wonder if his wife and children were home. I wonder why a few ex students have made allegations of drug use and parties at the Pash household.

I do not think Roger ran away. He didn't take anything. He did not plan on leaving to start a new life, say, in San Francisco. Police believe soneone he knew killed him. Who would have motive? We will never know. I wish new investigators would reopen this.

BBM. I couldn't agree more.

I was quite surprised to see a few posts that seemed to suggest that Pash had spoken - and answered questions so
the issues were cleared up...IMO all that info was nothing more than his version.

I really wish, in a perfect world, any of those kids who knew back then what was going on would come forward.

The truth usually has a way of catching up and I really hope its so for this case, and those involved.

 

[Satch]

BBM. I couldn't agree more.

I was quite surprised to see a few posts that seemed to suggest that Pash had spoken - and answered questions so
the issues were cleared up...IMO all that info was nothing more than his version.

I really wish, in a perfect world, any of those kids who knew back then what was going on would come forward.

The truth usually has a way of catching up and I really hope its so for this case, and those involved.

My Concerns,

A main thing that I have learned from Mr. Pash's posts is the small town beliefs of the community and how everyone knew each other, and that speculation in these communities has a way of becoming fact. Furthermore, we have learned that Mr. Pash himself even struggled with administrative issues at the school where he taught, before Roger had disappeared.

Unless I am missing something, it appears that only Mr. Pash, and a poster who claims to be Roger's sister have spoken out concerning persons directly connected to the case on our forum. There are good points raised. If Roger simply ran away because lets say there was an identity issue, which he believes the small town community could not handle, why would LE believe that he was killed and those involved invoke what sure looks like a cover up after thirty-six years.

The problem is that we have no evidence of anything connecting to Roger's disappearance concerning foul play that is known publicly. I wonder how long LE or anyone else needs to keep the files closed? I can see and certainly understand the need to protect the privacy of living Ellison family members, that is needed. The sad feeling is I don't think there will ever be closure in this case until we find out why LE believes Roger was murdered. The clues would seemingly be in LE's case file. One of these things is going to have to happen IMO:

1.) LE says they know what happened to Roger, but can't reveal what that is to protect family or those close to the case. If that is true, do we have to wait till everyone connected with the case has passed away to know what happened, or even have a chance of LE opening the files?

2.) Someone or several someone's comes forward that day and tells what happened to Roger AND their story is verified through physical evidence to prevent this from being just another rumor.

3.) A classmate of Mr. Pash's comes forward and tells the specifics of the "Freudian Exercise" and Roger's answers to the questions asked in the assignment. Note that this may not solve what actually occured, or even be truthful, but if it was truthful, it may at least give us a clue as to Roger's whereabouts.

Other than what the poster claiming to be Roger's sister, and Mr. Pash have provided, we know very little additional information compared to that day that Roger vanished. February 10, 1981.

Satch

 

[dogperson]

Didn't a lot of Freudian exercises have to do with word association or free association? If so, maybe Roger's responses were disturbing. They may have involved violent thoughts, suicidal thoughts, thoughts of feeling trapped, thoughts that didn't fit societal norms, etc. Or maybe the words he chose indicated something involving drug use or illegal activities?

I don't see why, after all these years, anyone who was questioned by LE would still be bound to keep silent. I wouldn't think they could be charged anything if they revealed what was in the exercise or what LE questioned them about.

 

[kilahchris]

John Pash if that who he really is.
Has provided nothing of substance.


What he says should not be taken seriously. Clearing your name is one thing but writing in a repetitive tone and calling everyone on here a sleuthie is pretty pathetic.
There have been allegations about John Pash and his relationship with the students, and the close proximity of his home. So how pathetic is it sign into a forum designed to solve the case and just make claims that provide nothing of substance.
He writes an essay mocking people who are genuinely trying to put that facts together to solve this mystery all of this after 35 years????

I call his bluff.
After 35 years law enforcement cannot crack this case. He claims to know what was written in a school assignment but yet he is compelled to stay silent about it. Because a Sheriff from 35 years ago told him not talk about it. Roger Ellison's parents are both dead and the family and friends have suffered for all this time and to this day he holds silent on pertinent information. This Freudian school assignment makes no sense in the context of a wrestling coach\history teacher. What was the purpose and goal of this alleged assignment??? How can two words from an assignment guarantee in anyone's rational mind what Roger Ellison did? This guy is either an internet troll or a flat our liar.

He even claims to have thought Roger Ellison was found and to later find out he really was not found. So this rational thinking man who sounds intelligent can come to that conclusion based on rumors???

If one uses a rationale mind they can evaluate this case easily. No runaway teen can survive on their own with 3 dollars in their pocket and no means of transportation. No rationale teen would tell his friend "hey please watch my locker I will be back"One person came on to this forum and claimed to know Roger and Mitch and said things are not what they always seem but yet did not divulge anything more. I call B.S
The internet is filled with trolls who are trying to get a rise out of people who are genuinely trying to help. Everyone who has come on this thread to claim they know Roger has provided nothing of substance. They have not answered one pertinent question.

A teenager going through crisis, is not something that can easily be hidden from everyone. But yet there is no evidence of such crisis situation other than from the person who claims to be John Pash. No mention of school assignment other than this man who claims he is John Pash.

 

[Satch]

John Pash if that who he really is.
Has provided nothing of substance.


What he says should not be taken seriously. Clearing your name is one thing but writing in a repetitive tone and calling everyone on here a sleuthie is pretty pathetic.
There have been allegations about John Pash and his relationship with the students, and the close proximity of his home. So how pathetic is it sign into a forum designed to solve the case and just make claims that provide nothing of substance.
He writes an essay mocking people who are genuinely trying to put that facts together to solve this mystery all of this after 35 years????

I call his bluff.
After 35 years law enforcement cannot crack this case. He claims to know what was written in a school assignment but yet he is compelled to stay silent about it. Because a Sheriff from 35 years ago told him not talk about it. Roger Ellison's parents are both dead and the family and friends have suffered for all this time and to this day he holds silent on pertinent information. This Freudian school assignment makes no sense in the context of a wrestling coach\history teacher. What was the purpose and goal of this alleged assignment??? How can two words from an assignment guarantee in anyone's rational mind what Roger Ellison did? This guy is either an internet troll or a flat our liar.

He even claims to have thought Roger Ellison was found and to later find out he really was not found. So this rational thinking man who sounds intelligent can come to that conclusion based on rumors???

If one uses a rationale mind they can evaluate this case easily. No runaway teen can survive on their own with 3 dollars in their pocket and no means of transportation. No rationale teen would tell his friend "hey please watch my locker I will be back"One person came on to this forum and claimed to know Roger and Mitch and said things are not what they always seem but yet did not divulge anything more. I call B.S
The internet is filled with trolls who are trying to get a rise out of people who are genuinely trying to help. Everyone who has come on this thread to claim they know Roger has provided nothing of substance. They have not answered one pertinent question.

A teenager going through crisis, is not something that can easily be hidden from everyone. But yet there is no evidence of such crisis situation other than from the person who claims to be John Pash. No mention of school assignment other than this man who claims he is John Pash.

Hello Kilahchris,

For me on this case, the silence after all these years is very sad. Can you share what you believe happened to Roger? It sounds like you believe he was murdered. But why would someone do that? We need some hard factual evidence in this case. Now that I think of it, Roger's alleged quote to Mitch, "Please watch my locker, I will be back." does seem strange. Why not just close the locker door, if Roger did indeed say, "Hold it Open." Some reports claim that Roger told Mitch, "I'll see you in class." How could someone vanish that quickly in such a short period of time to NEVER be seen again? Can we assume that there were only about fifteen to twenty minutes before class began that day? That amount of time is very short for someone to leave for the unknown

Satch

 

[kilahchris]

I am of the strong belief that Roger Ellison was shot and killed in the manner that was explained by the Deer Poacher. Roger Ellison was lured outside to meet 2 individuals. For reasons I do not know and can only speculate on. These were people Roger initially trusted and I believe he got in a car\truck and these 2 men drove him to the woods Northwest of Cederage.

The man who made the deathbed confession has no real reason to lie on his deathbed unless he is in fact the one who committed the murders. It is my opinion that the Deer Poacher knows exactly who killed Roger and due to friendship\relationship never came forward to authorities back in 1981. To clear his conscience he decided to open up about what he knows in the best way he can.


If Law enforcement want to crack this case they need to get in touch with the 2nd poacher if that person is still alive.

 

[pitkrew]

I am of the strong belief that Roger Ellison was shot and killed in the manner that was explained by the Deer Poacher. Roger Ellison was lured outside to meet 2 individuals. For reasons I do not know and can only speculate on. These were people Roger initially trusted and I believe he got in a car\truck and these 2 men drove him to the woods Northwest of Cederage.

The man who made the deathbed confession has no real reason to lie on his deathbed unless he is in fact the one who committed the murders. It is my opinion that the Deer Poacher knows exactly who killed Roger and due to friendship\relationship never came forward to authorities back in 1981. To clear his conscience he decided to open up about what he knows in the best way he can.


If Law enforcement want to crack this case they need to get in touch with the 2nd poacher if that person is still alive.

I tend to agree. The only thing I wonder is Roger went missing in early February and the deathbed confessor said it was in early spring that they saw the suspicious activity.. To me early spring is March or April, however, I guess maybe it could have felt like spring. And if it truly was spring i.e, March/April timeframe, where had roger been in the interim? Or maybe did he make that timeframe up? Does anyone know if the second poacher is still around/alive ?



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[msmithca858]

If the timeline is correct as stated, where and why keep Roger alive for so long before killing him? I believe I mentioned these points in an earlier post. Another posted (a local I believe) mentioned that Cedaredge is about 6000 ft and deer would not be found at that elevation at that time of year. Further, if LE thought the story credible why do they still officially maintain he was killed "shortly after he disappeared? Mr. Pash does raise, in my mind, one very interesting idea... when is friends and especially locked partner saw he never made it to ANY classes that day, why did no one question it or check on him? I do think the second "witness" might have more to tell, if he is still living. I had mentioned the idea that the two men Roger was talking to that morning and the two poachers might be the same individuals... just an interesting idea

 

[wfgodot]

False confessions mask private shames.

 

[kilahchris]

I tend to agree. The only thing I wonder is Roger went missing in early February and the deathbed confessor said it was in early spring that they saw the suspicious activity.. To me early spring is March or April, however, I guess maybe it could have felt like spring. And if it truly was spring i.e, March/April timeframe, where had roger been in the interim? Or maybe did he make that timeframe up? Does anyone know if the second poacher is still around/alive ?



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You have to take into the account that the actual confession came in 1998, 17 years after Roger's Disappearance. The confessor said early spring, to me that is not so alarming giving the amount of time. People tend to lose details in that amount of time. To me early spring is close enough to February to not rule out the confession on a whole. I think it is a travesty grown men could watch what happened to a child and not say anything about until it is too late.

 

[kilahchris]

If the timeline is correct as stated, where and why keep Roger alive for so long before killing him? I believe I mentioned these points in an earlier post. Another posted (a local I believe) mentioned that Cedaredge is about 6000 ft and deer would not be found at that elevation at that time of year. Further, if LE thought the story credible why do they still officially maintain he was killed "shortly after he disappeared? Mr. Pash does raise, in my mind, one very interesting idea... when is friends and especially locked partner saw he never made it to ANY classes that day, why did no one question it or check on him? I do think the second "witness" might have more to tell, if he is still living. I had mentioned the idea that the two men Roger was talking to that morning and the two poachers might be the same individuals... just an interesting idea

The 2 men may very well be the men Roger had a conversation with. They could even be his killers.
I but i believe the Death Bed Confession is authentic and the dying man knew the killer and remained silent out friendship. The guilt must of eaten up over the years and he felt compelled to at least say something before leaving this world.

 

[kilahchris]

If the timeline is correct as stated, where and why keep Roger alive for so long before killing him? I believe I mentioned these points in an earlier post. Another posted (a local I believe) mentioned that Cedaredge is about 6000 ft and deer would not be found at that elevation at that time of year. Further, if LE thought the story credible why do they still officially maintain he was killed "shortly after he disappeared? Mr. Pash does raise, in my mind, one very interesting idea... when is friends and especially locked partner saw he never made it to ANY classes that day, why did no one question it or check on him? I do think the second "witness" might have more to tell, if he is still living. I had mentioned the idea that the two men Roger was talking to that morning and the two poachers might be the same individuals... just an interesting idea

I believe Roger was lured, maybe by a promise of money, a job, drugs, I am not sure. And out of respect for his family I am only speculating do not mean to tarnish his memory. But i believe he was lured and made to believe he was being driven somewhere legitimate.

 

[armywife210]

I wonder if the "death bed confession" was only a half truth. Perhaps he wasn't a poacher but he knows what happened and where because he was involved. An attempt to alleviate his conscience without completely implicating himself, tarnishing the family that he was leaving behind. He might have been off by a couple of months in time, especially if he was a heavy drinker/drug user. I don't feel Roger was necessarily into anything illegal. I'm not sure why he would meet up with this guy but it's obvious he only intended to be gone for a few minutes.


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[Satch]

I wonder if the "death bed confession" was only a half truth. Perhaps he wasn't a poacher but he knows what happened and where because he was involved. An attempt to alleviate his conscience without completely implicating himself, tarnishing the family that he was leaving behind. He might have been off by a couple of months in time, especially if he was a heavy drinker/drug user. I don't feel Roger was necessarily into anything illegal. I'm not sure why he would meet up with this guy but it's obvious he only intended to be gone for a few minutes.


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I agree,

The confession could be a half-truth in order to prevent LE from trying to prosecute other witnesses to protect those who were involved. If the two men meeting story has any truth at all, Roger obviously did not intend to be gone for more than a few minutes. And if there was no death bed confession, or it was totally made up as John Pash believes, it sure seems too coincidental that such a story would carry on for decades like this. I think the most likely circumstance is that there is some kind of cover-up involved, but why? I get this feeling that unless someone comes forward with physical evidence that can support that any new information is not a rumor, we may never know what happened here.

If this had been a larger community with a solid LE background who could handle cases like this, I think the facts could have been much easier separated from fiction years ago, and we would know what happened to Roger and maybe even why.

Satch

 

[pitkrew]

Agree. I cannot fathom that someone (let alone 2 people) could see this going on and not do something. Does anyone know anything about the remains that were found ? From what I've read, they didn't identify them as being roger or anyone else.. How come, has too much time passed to get that info? Wondering if roger had siblings, as a way to link the remains with a living relative ? And who was that second poacher ?? Random questions tumbling around in my head...


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