Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #31

[MollyDDD]

She will be a force to be reckoned with in the trial. Imo

And this is why I said her testimony is going to be crucial to the Prosecution. Although, it just dawned on me, wouldn’t it be considered “here say”?

 

[pocketaccent]

I can't think of a case where a father dumped his children's bodies in something like a tank of crude oil within hours of their death who didn't kill them. IMO.

I can't think of another case either and I think he killed them.

But look at what the State is up against:
CW is claiming SW killed them. So the State must prove that CW did it.

And dumping the girls in oil does not mean he killed SW with premeditation. That's what the defense will be arguing vigorously.

That's why I said I hope the State has the solid evidence that is incontrovertible that he killed the children, not SW.

 

[book-thinker]

MerryB said: ↑
IMO the state would want to meet with SW’s family first to discuss the autopsy findings & how to proceed. Now, that may not have happened since they’ve asked for a forensic pathologist’s input, but the original deadline for discovery was today. JMO



@FlossyMay the post by @MerryB in no way suggests the question you have posted to that member.

Just wondering, is it standard protocol releasing autopsy reports to family members,
before the public has access?

 

[riolove77]

Hi hi - lawyer here. First, CW will have no reasonable expectation of privacy in the camera pointing at his home. A REP is had in any area you would need to go out of your way to look into - for example, into a window, and sometimes into a yard if there is a privacy fence. But certainly not in footage from a neighbor's camera that is pointed at the outside of the home. Also, LE did not ask for the neighbor to record the footage so the camera recording the home was not the product of the neighbor being an agent of LE. I highly doubt the defense will be successful in keeping that out.

Second, NUA's testimony regarding everything she saw and did that day is not hearsay. Firsthand knowledge of something you said is not hearsay. Hearsay is an out of court statement being used in court to prove the truth of the matter concerned. For example, "I arrived at the house at 1:30 pm" is not hearsay, but "SW told me the night before that..." would be hearsay and would be inadmissible, unless a hearsay exception or exemption applies (and there are lots...). Hope this helps!

ETA: just saw that Mrspratcher also verified this about REP a couple replies above. Sorry!

 

[DexterMorgan]

And this is why I said her testimony is going to be crucial to the Prosecution. Although, it just dawned on me, wouldn’t it be considered “here say”?

They really dont need her hearsay details.

She's just there to corroborate a definitive timeline of when she last saw SW going in the house and when she herself first arrived back to the house later that day and why she was so worried.

She also may give insight on if CW tried to move or touch something during the walkthru.

 

[Hazelnutty]

Just wondering, is it standard protocol releasing autopsy reports to family members,
before the public has access?

Good question. I guess it would be horrid if they had to find out at the same time the general public (world) does. Horror upon horror. May G-d have mercy on them.

 

[Jennifer17]

How about a front porch and/or garage?
If the neighbors cameras did indeed show his truck backed up to the garage is that invasion of reasonable expectation of privacy? Because, if you think about it he certainly wasn't expecting anybody to be nosying around what he was doing on his own property.
I think this could be an issue.

I don't think so. You do not have an expectation of privacy at your front door. Anyone on the street can see your front door and porch.

 

[Lucyray]

Yes hers is the best, I do mine more to make fun of AB and her craziness lol.

You do an excellent job, and I appreciate the occasional comment from you that is thrown in! Thank you!

 

[PommyMommy]

Completely agree! I don’t believe they would or could lie. Sorry, if my post was confusing, wasn’t carefully worded. I need to stop dropping critical pronouns!

TY for posting the links though as they probably clear up my post for others reading.
You’re always so awesome! So how do you keep it all straight? In my mind, I picture a color coded multi tab MS Excel spreadsheet. I wish I could! Can you come organize my life, are you for hire?

LOL!!! Here are some pictures for your spreadsheet. The links are helpful to understand the responsibilites of the coroner's office.

Coroner - Weld County
https://www.weldgov.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_6/File/Departments/Coroner/AcaC6Bb2C3622d57D072.pdf

 

[NuttMegg]

I figure with her being 15 weeks pregnant and perhaps a little heavier too, she simply would not fit in the man hole and she he had to quickly bury her. But the one thing that really puzzles me is, why did he go through the trouble of putting each child into a different oil tank?

I just figured it would be less likely to plug drain filters, it could be that the tanks were so full (?) at least in the first tank that he couldn't shove them both in. I really don't know, though.

 

[CFlo]

Which reminds me; I wonder what that conversation looked like between CW and his employer when he had to a) let them know he wouldn't be returning to work that day, and why, and b) assuming he would have had to notify his employer Tuesday morning, letting them know again that he wouldn't be coming into work on that day, and why.

I'm sure anyone who interacted with CW at all during that timeframe would have some interesting information regarding his demeanor, and his explanations for what was going on at home.

JMO.

I was just starting to think about all this yesterday and got side tracked (shocker, I know).
IMO, Monday (leaving early was wife/kids something’s going on/family emergency at home). Tuesday and day of interviews would have to be my wife/kids are missing and Wed morning would’ve had to be the same.
We know he was fired on Wednesday with IIRC approximate timing of this coinsiding with the drone finding the sheet, etc. It was later in the evening my time (EDT) when I first started watching CW interviews and reading about them “missing” as friends of SW friends were posting. I had a little bit of time to read, watch CW news interviews at that point in still missing status... but as I started to delve in “sleuth mode” immediately upon seeing interviews, and I went to a SW family FB page, is when I saw a confession had been made. I was just taking a break from Mollie on WS. Anyhooo.... I then saw he had been fired for no related reason I couldn’t sleep that night, so me reading about CW being fired could’ve been the next morning, I can’t recall).
My question still is, well amongst many, but regarding body dumping site located.... HOW? Why fly the drone exactly over there? Was it CW work truck GPS, SW applewatch ping, both. We won’t know until trial, but I am curious.
Also curious too about work demeanor Monday morning in person or via phone thereafter. We already know the Thayer’s witnessed demeanor that seemed off enough to them to call PD on Wed when he went to do his Dad airport pick up.
So many unknowns.

 

[CFlo]

I think a lot of the pieces to this puzzle will be revealed when NUA testifies. Since she spent time with SW during the AZ trip, and was the last person to see her alive.

No doubt in my mind that her media interviews left much out, as it should be.

 

[Jennifer17]

I just figured it would be less likely to plug drain filters, it could be that the tanks were so full (?) at least in the first tank that he couldn't them both in. I really don't know, though.

Let that sink in. Forcing your little girls into full tanks of crude oil.

 

[Kensie]

Welcome Riolove. Love posts from lawyers to give insight into what is important in the court of law. We have such great lawyers at WS that explain things to us.

 

[CFlo]

LOL!!! Here are some pictures for your spreadsheet. The links are helpful to understand the responsibilites of the coroner's office.
View attachment 148604 View attachment 148603
Coroner - Weld County
https://www.weldgov.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_6/File/Departments/Coroner/AcaC6Bb2C3622d57D072.pdf

It’s like a patch quilt over there!! LOL
Bless you for keeping it all straight! Pulling them up right now.

 

[NuttMegg]

Let that sink in. Forcing your little girls into full tanks of crude oil.

Yeah, i thought about that imagery while typing, but i really do think that's what gear he was in, desecration through pressure and haste.

 

[Gardener1850]

It's a good question. Those who feel this was likely premeditated but looks sloppy because his plans were derailed by the flight delay, have been challenged by those asking similar questions.

For example, he knew about the camera, and/or he planned to take the bodies out through the garage when he left for work so he wouldn't be seen driving around in the middle of the night the night before his family goes missing, how does a flight delay matter?

These questions have certainly given me pause.

Maybe he wasn't really aware that the camera next door would capture everything coming in or out of the house. Maybe he thought he would have time to kill everyone and then take them out through the back which butts up against a cul de sac and undeveloped property. Or he would have a lot of time to dispose of everything, check the scene carefully, and stage it after killing everyone earlier in the night, and still take them out through the garage on his way to work.

I truly suspect the flight delay has something to do with why the crime scene was sloppy. My feeling is this was likely planned in advance and not a sudden rage attack -although I'm on the fence- and I see a scenario in my mind that makes sense.

I see him obsessively watching the flight trackers or his phone and texting her a lot about the delays. I imagine he either killed the girls in advance and was starting to freak out with the knowledge that he would be expected to take them to school or have them make an appearance in public Monday, or talk with mommy, and he would be expected to get a sitter so what if her flight didn't come in that night? Then what, if the kids were already dead.

Or he had decided that it had to be that night. For whatever reason. Kids weren't dead yet. But he needed that to be the night. Maybe his affair gave him an ultimatum. Maybe he felt due to trips and the beginning of the regular fall season of pre-k (or was she entering kindergarten), and a gender reveal party he would likely be in no mood to endure if he planned to end the baby before he was born, that it had to be then, as someone explained really well here in another post.

So instead of spending time while the flight was delayed, carefully staging the scene, he's panicking. He's checking and re-checking the flight tracker and trying to figure out what to do.

Now time is going to be tight. He won't have time to kill the wife and kids, carefully load them up, dispose of evidence, leave for "work", get rid of the bodies before the sun rises and someone might see him AND stage the scene.

At that point he might have been totally freaking out. Plans to remove her purse and phone and the kid's medicine, or their car seats from the car, etc., might have flown out the window as now he's faced with reality.

He couldn't have had several hours to clean the bedding and put it back on, unlock a window or the back slider, grab several of their things, and have all the bodies loaded and ready to be concealed, and still have time to dump property in remote locations or down other oil drums or in a dumpster somewhere on the way back from work.

But the flight delay and that terribly noisy Nickole who had no right to be concerned and get involved (according to a few posts) blew his plans and ability to stage things.

It's going to be interesting to see how the pans out. Data on phones and computer will be quite interesting.

This entire post sums up exactly what I'm thinking so far. One thing I would add is that I suspect he actually planned to leave the house a little after 4 AM in order to ditch her car 5-10 miles away and come back to the house jogging. According to SW's SM posts, it was his routine to get up and go for a 5 mile run around 4 or 5 AM. So it would not be hard for him to run that far and would not look out of the ordinary if he was seen running back home at 5 or 5:15-- he could claim he left out the back slider and when he came back she had taken the girls in the car and left him. At that early hour, while it's still dark, it's unlikely a neighbor's camera would be able to tell who was driving or if the girls were in their car seats (JMO). I think the late flight ruined that plan for him. Perhaps his Plan B was to make sure no one gained entrance to the house before he came home from work and do his run in the evening instead. SW's friend ruined that plan (thankfully!).

Another thing-- I think perhaps he may not have known where SW's phone ended up and maybe he wasted time looking for it. He couldn't call it or that would show up on his phone record and be hard to explain. And if he wanted to take her car to ditch it, he might have wanted to take her phone in the car too to make it look realistic that she left. Plan B could have been that he would deal with finding the phone and getting rid of the car when he got home from work because he had run out of time. JMO.

 

[Layla123]

AB 9/25/18
1. New details. SW’s mother and brother have spent the last few days in. Colorado to take care of things. Police and Prosecutors may want background on C.W. Will want to do deep debrief with family. Building entire case. Prosecutors Office has been in regular contact with family all along. Prosecutors have been offering family hope for justice.
2. Lauren Arnold (SW’s good friend) and her mother are hanging out with family.
3. Going to try to build a case on a profile of how CW degenerated over last few years.
4. Defense forcing shenanigans on Prosecution demanding Autopsy reports. Dylan Kliebold (Columbine) autopsy took a long time, too.
5. Taking so long sometimes because of scientific details. Oil, may be a problem. Scientists work together. Try to find best methods and solutions. Could have disagreements. Try to find best methods, they want to deliver the best, most thorough report they can.
6. Jon Benets autopsy took 8 months. Kept expanding teams of experts.
7. Guest thinks LE already knows what happened. May be stalling a little.
8. Watts family purchased a high tech home security system. All movement in through system is recorded. Can tell if a door was opened and how long it stayed open. If door was opened and left open at times other than when C.W. said, like at 2 instead of 5:30, it will be recorded. LE can work with security Co. to get that data. Footage lasts about 15 days. Data may last longer. NUA knew code to front door. It is possible C.W. set it, so no one but him could enter. It’s possible to share footage with neighbors who use same system.
9. There is an emergency panel available for that system, with one touch you can call 911. CW didn’t use it.
10. When CW lied and said family was missing, that was a lie. That’s a crime. Could he face mores charges? Casey Anthony lied. Got 4 convictions, 4 years. CW could get charged with Obstruction of Justice, perhaps filing false police report, he lied, and he’ll probably continue to lie. CA was order to pay $217,449.23 for false investigation. Probably hasn’t paid a dime.
10. Lies are a viable part of this case. Kind of a consolation prize if you don’t get conviction.
11. If this is a death penalty case could cost millions of dollars.
12. Looks like CWs defense is going to go all out, they’re going to fight everything tooth and nail.
Viewer Question
1. This case is so much like the Peterson case yet that one was so open and up front with all information from start to finish. What’s so different about this case? Different parties involved. Different personalities in attorneys. Geragos was high profile. Lack of information not surprising, it’s only been 5-6 weeks. Waiting to find out if girls were put in oil tanks when still alive, there will be oil in their lungs.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

According to this article, it eludes to the fact that CW is allowed visitors now and he may be currently receiving visitors aside from staff at his lawyers office.

Suspected Family Murderer Chris Watts Doesn't Want His Jail Visitors Revealed

Also, it was previously reported on WS that CW did not have a Commissary account at the Weld County Jail due to restrictions placed on his incarceration but according to the link on the jail website, it appears that deposits can be made into CW's Commissary account using his recipient ID number. CW must not be on suicide watch if he is receiving visitors and Commissary privileges.

 

[Mrspratcher]

Hi hi - lawyer here. First, CW will have no reasonable expectation of privacy in the camera pointing at his home. A REP is had in any area you would need to go out of your way to look into - for example, into a window, and sometimes into a yard if there is a privacy fence. But certainly not in footage from a neighbor's camera that is pointed at the outside of the home. Also, LE did not ask for the neighbor to record the footage so the camera recording the home was not the product of the neighbor being an agent of LE. I highly doubt the defense will be successful in keeping that out.

Second, NUA's testimony regarding everything she saw and did that day is not hearsay. Firsthand knowledge of something you said is not hearsay. Hearsay is an out of court statement being used in court to prove the truth of the matter concerned. For example, "I arrived at the house at 1:30 pm" is not hearsay, but "SW told me the night before that..." would be hearsay and would be inadmissible, unless a hearsay exception or exemption applies (and there are lots...). Hope this helps!

ETA: just saw that Mrspratcher also verified this about REP a couple replies above. Sorry!

Welcome!