Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #32

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
@Mrspratcher do

she indeed is a victim but perhaps she is a catalyst to her murder by strangling her babies

There no evidence to back that up bar the word of a murderer who has EVERY reason to lie - his freedom and perhaps his very life is at stake.

Right now they are nothing more than wild accusations against SW. I don’t believe in wild accusations, I believe in accusations made based on evidence.

Of which there is compelling evidence against CW: see Gitana1’s list, and none against SW.

I won’t consider SW capable of strangling her children unless there is evidence to support it. I don’t just randomly accuse people of brutal crimes, that’s horrible. Especially people who can’t defend themselves.
 
What source do you have that the prosecution did not like the autopsy report? The evidence I have seen says they did not have it yet as of yesterday when you asked this question.

He confessed to lying. Not to telling the truth. Many, many, many lies.
Quote of the year! “He confessed to lying”.
 
It's not delayed, the DA doesn't have it yet!

Two years ago my 37 year old step-daughter passed. It was natural causes, she had epilepsy. It was one of the worst times of my life, because we found her. Despite her illness, it took the coroner over three (3) months to issue a cause of death. It was epilepsy. These things take time, especially with multiple murders.

IMHO everyone is doing their best, and a thorough job!
I agree. With three victims, two of which were submerged in crude oil to complicate matters, I'd be more suprised if they were complete. The pathologist will be consulting with other experts in how to obtain the best physical evidence, sending out samples for testing, performing her/his own tests, and it's all going to take time. My grandmother also had to have an autopsy and it's a process.
 
Would it change your opinion of her if “hypothetically” you found out she had lied about many things?
No, hypothetically or not, because who's determining what are lies and what aren't, if it's CW, I wouldn't believe one word he's said or is going to say!

If this is to do with the 'gay lover' claiming CW told him SW was abusive?! Phfft to that!
 
@gitana1 Has a pinned post on every thread. Here it is:

I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

Evidence of triple murder:

1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
A Global History of Child Death

12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
ALSO their security system had one touch 911 buttons. Absolutely NO EXCUSE will do as to why he did not call 911. None. This clinches it for me. If he were telling the truth, there is nothing he would have done, or anyone would have done, other than calling 911 right away like immediately.
 
The police or lawyers have not given us another series of events to consider. Nothing about his timeline nor viewing the babies in the moniter can be disproven thus far IMO when the lights are on in a room color can be detected. We know the dog barked that night but not sure if wellness check time therefore it’s highly unlikely none of the people were dead until after she came home. She was told he wanted to separate according to his confession. Why kill her and the kids if he is involved with someone else and leaving?
If having an affair, as you say, is not a reason to kill her, why did he lie about it to police?
 
Jon Benet's autopsy took 8 months! I was certain we cleared this up yesterday. The girls were submerged in CRUDE OIL TANKS, fgs.
MOO

I lost an immediate family member unexpectedly a few years ago. Months went by with still no cause of death. Nearly a year after she died her body was exhumed and sent for a forensic autopsy. Even after all that the cause was ‘undetermined’.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes a very long time for the autopsy results on the little girls.
 
I lost an immediate family member unexpectedly a few years ago. Months went by with still no cause of death. Nearly a year after she died her body was exhumed and sent for a forensic autopsy. Even after all that the cause was ‘undetermined’.
I’m so sorry for your loss.

I think people expect autopsy and DNA results to happen instantly like they do on TV. Unfortunately, it’s not like that in real life. Results can take months or longer, and as you said, may not even be conclusive.
 
I lost an immediate family member unexpectedly a few years ago. Months went by with still no cause of death. Nearly a year after she died her body was exhumed and sent for a forensic autopsy. Even after all that the cause was ‘undetermined’.
I'm sorry for your loss. It is always hard when the results come back undetermined. I'm pretty confident that isn't going to happen in this case. I have no problem with them taking all the time they need and using as many experts as needed. I can wait.
MOO
 
Can you point to evidence he did it besides he lied on interview and dumped the bodies?

1. Confessed to killing SW and Baby Nico

2. Was having affair(s)

3. Reported as distant with SW and the girls

4. Talked about selling the house while his family was missing

5. Did not call 911 after he saw his baby “blue”; did not call 911 after he became enraged that SW was allegedly strangling CCW

6. Went to work just a few hours later like nothing happened

7. Stuffed his families lifeless bodies into his work truck and drove with them for approximately 40 miles.

8. Was able to sleep in the home where his family was “murdered by SW”

9. Was able to put on a shirt SW purchased for him...hours after he murdered her for allegedly murdering his daughters

10. Did not care to follow up on leads relating to his families disappearance

11. Does not want to provide his palm prints/fingerprints to exonerate himself, since according to him, SW murdered the girls. If he wanted the ME to test the girls necks for trace DNA, then clearly he was confident his DNA would not show up on their necks. What happened to his confidence?
 
It's beyond chilling to consider what may have happened to NUA but for LE arriving before him.

She's going to be the absolute star witness in this case.
Yes. Thank G-d she called the police. I had thought about what might have happened if she went in the house w/SW when she dropped her off Sunday night but for some reason didn’t think about the possibilities if LE hadn’t been there when CW came home Monday. Maybe because it was broad daylight— who knows, it just didn’t occur to me. It’s a horrifying thought. And she wasn’t just by herself—she had her son and her own baby with her. If he killed his own children he probably wouldn’t have blinked at killing hers. So glad she had the guts to call the police. I’m not sure I would have.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
146
Guests online
1,840
Total visitors
1,986

Forum statistics

Threads
605,307
Messages
18,185,520
Members
233,309
Latest member
Rachael529
Back
Top