Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #38

[PommyMommy]

It could be very remarkable depending on a number of things. Were the girls in bed sleeping already or were they already dead?
What was he grilling? Food, evidence, letters, information, clothing?

I wish we knew!
MOO

 

[MyBelle]

From the videos I've watched it seems that the girls were participating in most of the going ons around the house.
Also, if their bedtime is around 6:30 and he was grilling at 7:15, did he not eat dinner with them prior to their bedtime? I do wonder if he was burning something he didn't want SW to see and that was his main reason for lighting up the BBQ at that time and after the girls were in bed.

I have three toddler grandchildren and they are very picky eaters who are fed, bathed and in bed before their parents eat. I see nothing remarkable in CW grilling at 7:15 pm. JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

This “stood out to her,” meaning that it was likely something out of the ordinary.

Good question would be: had the girls been seen that time of the evening or later, (ie after the normal 6:30 bedtime) the night before when he was babysitting them?

 

[Seattle1]

It makes sense that they wouldn't be outside if their bedtime was usually 6:30 pm. It's a little odd that CW didn't eat dinner with them, but maybe they don't eat steak or whatever he was grilling and he fed them earlier. Either way, it may be unremarkable to you, but it stood out to the neighbor. And I don't know why you're focused in on the deck - there was a backyard out there. The children would not have had to be on the deck.
MOO

From earliest memory, Sunday has always represented "family" to me, and the only day our family counted on sharing a meal together. Knowing the girls had been away for several weeks, and finally home and alone with their Daddy, It saddens me to think these beautiful children didn't partake in nourishment of their bodies at the hands of their father. Perhaps they were no longer alive at CW bbq meal time, and they were already out of sight, out of mind. MOO...

 

[kkdj]

Good question would be: had the girls been seen that time of the evening or later, (ie after the normal 6:30 bedtime) the night before when he was babysitting them?

IIRC he dropped them off somewhere the night before.

 

[MyBelle]

It makes sense that they wouldn't be outside if their bedtime was usually 6:30 pm. It's a little odd that CW didn't eat dinner with them, but maybe they don't eat steak or whatever he was grilling and he fed them earlier. Either way, it may be unremarkable to you, but it stood out to the neighbor. And I don't know why you're focused in on the deck - there was a whole backyard out there. The children would not have had to be on the deck.
MOO

I doubt the Watts children were ever playing in the yard at 7:15 pm.

 

[Flowanda]

IMO him being treated as innocent until proven guilty by jury would be of honest concern for me as anyone that knew SW, I would want to make sure if he is guilty than nothing could be tainted or thrown out, if he didn't do it I would feel those same measures important IMO

 

[NuttMegg]

The father is a victim. His private conversations with his son don't put him in the middle of the crime. JMO

Nor did I say that. He was, however, the last person to consult with his son before the son would tell the "truth". (per affidavit.)

 

[Layla123]

AB 10/04/18
1. Today C.W. did speak on the phone with SW’s parents and brother about probate. It was a 3 way conversation- Between the jail, Courtroom, and SW’s parents. Probate is not part of criminal case, but CW’s attorneys and the DA were all present for the conversation. The DA, Michael Rourke, sat in the gallery of the courtroom, as did Defense Attorney, John Walsh. The Judge sat at his desk. Defense Attorney, Kate Herold was at the jail seated right next to C.W. while he was on a phone. SW’s parents and brother were on a phone in North Carolina. We have no idea who spoke on that call. Hearing was scheduled to be one full hour, but only lasted 10 Minutes and 40 seconds. Since SW’s family was petitioning the court to take over SW’s estate, AB assumes the Judge asked C.W. if he opposed. AB was able to get 1/2 page of notes from the meeting, and on them it said that no one opposed, and specifically, C.W. did not oppose. Why would C.W. want to be in on that call if he wasn’t going to speak? SW’s family called for an emergency meeting so SW’s car and some Life Insurance could be dealt with in a timely manner.
2. CW’s truck was taken away as evidence weeks ago. All 3 bodies were in the back seat. Don’t know how long truck will be held as evidence. Police referred to CW’s truck as a “work truck.” AB showed photo of “1139” in the back window of CW’s truck which certainly makes it look like a work truck, but AB has asked but still not received an answer whether it’s a work truck or if it belonged to C.W. and SW.
3. Guest Attorney Kirk Nurmi (Jodi Arias’s Attorney) talks about probate hearing. Nurmi thinks a lot of things were left unsaid. Attorneys were there to make sure CW didn’t say anything incriminating. CW is under a microscope right now. DA was there to evaluate CW. He’s still trying to decide whether or not to file Death Penalty.
4. Guest, Probate Attorney, Bonnie Bowles, was asked her opinion of 10 minute Probate hearing. 10 minute hearing was probably normal for what they discussed today. It was only to appoint SW’s father as SW’s personal representative, as well as determine SWs heirs. Heirs probably weren’t discussed at that time because the meeting was so short, but they will probably schedule another meeting to discuss SW’s heirs in the future. SW didn’t leave a will, CW is entitled to be sole heir, but if he is convicted of murder, by state law, he is not entitled to anything.
5. Quick claim deed on house is made out equally to SW and C.W. Joint tenants. if CW is convicted, he will not be entitled to house. If he’s not convicted, it belongs to C.W.
6. Kirk Nurmi talks about what it is like to defend somebody everyone hates. How you feel about them personally doesn’t matter. You’re there to defend them. You ignore the animosity for our client. Given the abhorrent behavior, 2 children murdered, Nurmi thinks he would try to plead out before it ever made it to a courtroom, if the DP was off the table, and justice was being served. He would work with the County Attorney to try to resolve things in that manner. AB disagreed with Nurmi because C.W. blamed SW for children’s deaths. With that, C.W. might be able to convince one juror that he’s innocent. Nurmi disagreed with AB. He thinks AB’s perspective is a bit wishful because when you go before a jury with the fact pattern in this case, the reasonable doubt you have is lesser, decreased. We’re talking about a father killing his own children. Once jurors hear that, he’s going to be looked at with skeptical eyes. We also have inconsistent stories, here. CW’s attorneys have to consider what could be lost if he goes to trial. Could it be his entire life? Could it be lethal injection? That’s the calculus that has to be done. The likelihood of his manslaughter story being proven is probably unlikely. AB agrees, except she’s covered cases where irrationality was applied when determining reasonable doubt, like Casey Anthony and OJ. All it takes is one juror.
7. Couldn’t C.W. instruct his attorneys to go for it? Yes. Ultimately the only thing an Attorney can do is show CW the evidence and advise. They can’t twist the clients arm. It is entirely up to C.W.. Nurmi is guessing his attorneys, with this evidence, are trying to advise him to plea.
8. Will the Defense try to have CW’s confession suppressed? Nurmi says, depends on what the ultimate defense is, but if he is arguing manslaughter, his attorney can say C.W. made this confession, it was clearly against his interests because it was true. Therefore, the jury must convict him of manslaughter, not First Degree Murder. The confession is actually more favorable than the other outcomes if he goes to trial.
9. What’s it like to defend a client in a high profile case where everybody hates your client? Nurmi got death threats while defending Jodi Arias. Many people mistakenly believe that Public Defenders are there because they believe in and support their clients, but it’s not true. Defendants have constitutional rights. Public Defenders are assigned these cases.
10. How long will this take? Nurmi says it’s hard to say. If Colorado decides to seek the Death Penalty the time will drag on. Defense Attorneys will have to investigate CW’s life from birth to day of sentencing. That puts things on a different timeframe. Minimum 2 years is not unheard of, maybe more.
11. AB says Prosecutors are probably going to play the porch interviews at the trial, and everybody is going to think C.W. is a liar. Once a liar always a liar. How can Defense get over that? That’s going to be something CW and his attorneys will have to figure out. What was C.W. thinking at the time? What’s the explanation? Was he trying to be consistent with being innocent? Defense is going to have to try to explain.
Viewer Questions
1. Could it be that CW had his girlfriend over that weekend and he freaked out about the girls telling their mom, so he killed them? Maybe he killed SW at the top of the stairs where her phone was found, before he saw that her phone was missing? Sounds logical. Police have to run through every possible theory. Key part is we have a confession, and in that confession CW talks about how he sees SW killing the 2 girls and going into a rage and killing SW. That theory doesn’t fit with that confession. This is all part of the investigation. They made the arrest fairly quickly after the crime was committed. They’ve had all this time to put a case together. Next court date is November 19. They know what C.W. was doing, who he talked to, his affairs, his electronic footprint. They’re putting it all together.
2. What if SW was recording on her phone and she ran through that area and hid her phone right before she was killed. Evidence for the police. That would be a dying declaration. Video evidence has been used before. If that was the case this would play heavily in the prosecution of C.W.

 

[kkdj]

I doubt the Watts children were ever playing in the yard at 7:15 pm.

Really? Why? Fed and bathed perhaps, still light outside....That's a wonderful feeling to play at that time imo.

 

[NuttMegg]

I doubt the Watts children were ever playing in the yard at 7:15 pm.

New babysitters, even if one is the father in this case, might very well break the "rules". And at 7:15 it would be cooler.

 

[Flowanda]

Legally, is a person considered innocent if he has confessed to the act?

 

[nwmouse]

AB 10/04/18
1. Today C.W. did speak on the phone with SW’s parents and brother about probate. It was a 3 way conversation- Between the jail, Courtroom, and SW’s parents. Probate is not part of criminal case, but CW’s attorneys and the DA were all present for the conversation. The DA, Michael Rourke, sat in the gallery of the courtroom, as did Defense Attorney, John Walsh. The Judge sat at his desk. Defense Attorney, Kate Herold was at the jail seated right next to C.W. while he was on a phone. SW’s parents and brother were on a phone in North Carolina. We have no idea who spoke on that call. Hearing was scheduled to be one full hour, but only lasted 10 Minutes and 40 seconds. Since SW’s family was petitioning the court to take over SW’s estate, AB assumes the Judge asked C.W. if he opposed. AB was able to get 1/2 page of notes from the meeting, and on them it said that no one opposed, and specifically, C.W. did not oppose. Why would C.W. want to be in on that call if he wasn’t going to speak? SW’s family called for an emergency meeting so SW’s car and some Life Insurance could be dealt with in a timely manner.
2. CW’s truck was taken away as evidence weeks ago. All 3 bodies were in the back seat. Don’t know how long truck will be held as evidence. Police referred to CW’s truck as a “work truck.” AB showed photo of “1139” in the back window of CW’s truck which certainly makes it look like a work truck, but AB has asked but still not received an answer whether it’s a work truck or if it belonged to C.W. and SW.
3. Guest Attorney Kirk Nurmi (Jodi Arias’s Attorney) talks about probate hearing. Nurmi thinks a lot of things were left unsaid. Attorneys were there to make sure CW didn’t say anything incriminating. CW is under a microscope right now. DA was there to evaluate CW. He’s still trying to decide whether or not to file Death Penalty.
4. Guest, Probate Attorney, Bonnie Bowles, was asked her opinion of 10 minute Probate hearing. 10 minute hearing was probably normal for what they discussed today. It was only to appoint SW’s father as SW’s personal representative, as well as determine SWs heirs. Heirs probably weren’t discussed at that time because the meeting was so short, but they will probably schedule another meeting to discuss SW’s heirs in the future. SW didn’t leave a will, CW is entitled to be sole heir, but if he is convicted of murder, by state law, he is not entitled to anything.
5. Quick claim deed on house is made out equally to SW and C.W. Joint tenants. if CW is convicted, he will not be entitled to house. If he’s not convicted, it belongs to C.W.
6. Kirk Nurmi talks about what it is like to defend somebody everyone hates. How you feel about them personally doesn’t matter. You’re there to defend them. You ignore the animosity for our client. Given the abhorrent behavior, 2 children murdered, Nurmi thinks he would try to plead out before it ever made it to a courtroom, if the DP was off the table, and justice was being served. He would work with the County Attorney to try to resolve things in that manner. AB disagreed with Nurmi because C.W. blamed SW for children’s deaths. With that, C.W. might be able to convince one juror that he’s innocent. Nurmi disagreed with AB. He thinks AB’s perspective is a bit wishful because when you go before a jury with the fact pattern in this case, the reasonable doubt you have is lesser, decreased. We’re talking about a father killing his own children. Once jurors hear that, he’s going to be looked at with skeptical eyes. We also have inconsistent stories, here. CW’s attorneys have to consider what could be lost if he goes to trial. Could it be his entire life? Could it be lethal injection? That’s the calculus that has to be done. The likelihood of his manslaughter story being proven is probably unlikely. AB agrees, except she’s covered cases where irrationality was applied when determining reasonable doubt, like Casey Anthony and OJ. All it takes is one juror.
7. Couldn’t C.W. instruct his attorneys to go for it? Yes. Ultimately the only thing an Attorney can do is show CW the evidence and advise. They can’t twist the clients arm. It is entirely up to C.W.. Nurmi is guessing his attorneys, with this evidence, are trying to advise him to plea.
8. Will the Defense try to have CW’s confession suppressed? Nurmi says, depends on what the ultimate defense is, but if he is arguing manslaughter, his attorney can say C.W. made this confession, it was clearly against his interests because it was true. Therefore, the jury must convict him of manslaughter, not First Degree Murder. The confession is actually more favorable than the other outcomes if he goes to trial.
9. What’s it like to defend a client in a high profile case where everybody hates your client? Nurmi got death threats while defending Jodi Arias. Many people mistakenly believe that Public Defenders are there because they believe in and support their clients, but it’s not true. Defendants have constitutional rights. Public Defenders are assigned these cases.
10. How long will this take? Nurmi says it’s hard to say. If Colorado decides to seek the Death Penalty the time will drag on. Defense Attorneys will have to investigate CW’s life from birth to day of sentencing. That puts things on a different timeframe. Minimum 2 years is not unheard of, maybe more.
11. AB says Prosecutors are probably going to play the porch interviews at the trial, and everybody is going to think C.W. is a liar. Once a liar always a liar. How can Defense get over that? That’s going to be something CW and his attorneys will have to figure out. What was C.W. thinking at the time? What’s the explanation? Was he trying to be consistent with being innocent? Defense is going to have to try to explain.
Viewer Questions
1. Could it be that CW had his girlfriend over that weekend and he freaked out about the girls telling their mom, so he killed them? Maybe he killed SW at the top of the stairs where her phone was found, before he saw that her phone was missing? Sounds logical. Police have to run through every possible theory. Key part is we have a confession, and in that confession CW talks about how he sees SW killing the 2 girls and going into a rage and killing SW. That theory doesn’t fit with that confession. This is all part of the investigation. They made the arrest fairly quickly after the crime was committed. They’ve had all this time to put a case together. Next court date is November 19. They know what C.W. was doing, who he talked to, his affairs, his electronic footprint. They’re putting it all together.
2. What if SW was recording on her phone and she ran through that area and hid her phone right before she was killed. Evidence for the police. That would be a dying declaration. Video evidence has been used before. If that was the case this would play heavily in the prosecution of C.W.

Thank you for all your hard work posting these AB summaries! I look forward to them Mon-Thursday

 

[NuttMegg]

IIRC he dropped them off somewhere the night before.

I've seen a couple of postings on that. I thought he left them with a babysitter, but then I've been corrected a few times so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[pocketaccent]

I wonder if LE recorded the conversation with CW and his father.
I assume all phone calls and face to face chats are recorded?
I wonder if that conversation will be played during the trial?

My guess is that the conversation would not have been recorded. Reason: CW wasn't under police custody at that time. He was arrested only after he 'confessed'.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

@MassGuy

“Physical evidence proving that CW killed the girls would be great, but that wouldn’t be necessary to make a case against him.

Absent any physical evidence of SW doing this, the circumstancial case against CW is solid”.

As the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Exactly!

 

[liltexans]

Legally, is a person considered innocent if he has confessed to the act?

Yes. Unless he enters an official guilty plea with the court. Confessions frequently get tossed out before trials as well. CW’s attorney is probably working on getting his confession tossed and will likely advise him to enter a plea of not guilty.

Of course I hope he will just plead guilty and spare both families the pain of a trial. But I doubt he will.

 

[Allabouttrial]

My guess is that the conversation would not have been recorded. Reason: CW wasn't under police custody at that time. He was arrested only after he 'confessed'.

Justin Ross Harris wasn't arrested when he spoke with Leanne and there are also a few others I've seen.

 

[kkdj]

I've seen a couple of postings on that. I thought he left them with a babysitter, but then I've been corrected a few times so I'll just leave it at that.

I think it was a babysitter but not at his (CW's) house.

 

[MsBetsy]

just rewatching his driveway media show.
its pretty disturbing the wording he uses when asked to describe his children.
cece - I call her rampage. she's always the trouble maker.always jumping off things, always yelling at you.
bella - calm and cautious, mothering...

shes more like me where as cece has her moms personality.

that's it. that's all he has to say.
I think bella would have been his hardest conquest.

I hope you think about how calm cautious and mothering bella was for the rest of your life chris.

Yes, I brought this up in an earlier thread. It's as if he's making it clear that he's the good guy, calm and motherly, while Shanann is more like Bella, the trouble maker, always yelling. It may be a subtle way of victim blaming. Jmo