Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #7

[KaylynnCouture]

Something I've been thinking of all morning --

Is there any way you think CW is going to try and go for a self-defense route? Granted, that is going to completely blow up in his face, but it may be possible. He says he saw SW strangling the children and so he went and killed her. It wouldn't surprise me if, what's next, is "I killed her because I thought she would come strangle me next."

When does he officially enter his plea? Or has he done so already?

 

[Deleted member 117120]

In an interview, Nickole says “I had my son look in the garage...” so she may have boosted him up to see through the window.

Also, she said the girls beds were unmade which was abnormal because Shanann was “very OCD.”

Interview here: Friend of woman allegedly killed by husband not 'shocked' by his arrest

Not doubting NU-A's statement, but how can anyone let alone her son who I assume is young, see the car seats in the car (backseat) from outside the garage with no side window on garage exterior and the only windows into the garage are at the top of the garage door and they are very small. It would be difficult to get a clear view inside the garage let alone the car from that outside angle with it being light outside and dark inside the garage ~ it would be like looking into a tunnel because each pane of glass is narrow both in width and height . If the car was driven in front wards inside the garage, it would be even harder to see inside the vehicle especially into the back seat to see car seats. Plus, if the vehicle had tinted windows even harder.

 

[rabbithole]

In an interview, Nickole says “I had my son look in the garage...” so she may have boosted him up to see through the window.

Also, she said the girls beds were unmade which was abnormal because Shanann was “very OCD.”

Interview here: Friend of woman allegedly killed by husband not 'shocked' by his arrest

THANK YOU! I’ve watched her interview several times and never caught that she was saying she had her son to look in the garage. I really thought she was saying “I had in my mind to look in the garage”.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

deleted by ldbd

 

[rabbithole]

Not doubting NU-A's statement, but how can anyone let alone her son who I assume is young, see the car seats in the car (backseat) from outside the garage with no side window on garage exterior and the only windows into the garage are at the top of the garage door and they are very small. It would be difficult to get a clear view inside the garage let alone the car from that outside angle with it being light outside and dark inside the garage ~ it would be like looking into a tunnel because each pane of glass is narrow both in width and height . If the car was driven in front wards inside the garage, it would be even harder to see inside the vehicle especially into the back seat to see car seats. Plus, if the vehicle had tinted windows even harder.

My thoughts as well! I’m still searching for photos of the left side of the house to confirm no windows there.

 

[Talisman]

With so many different forensic type information available for anyone to view/research ...

Is it possible that CW isn't as 'dim' as many posters believe? What if he didn't haphazardly leave the bedding on their bedroom floor, sheet in the kitchen trash, and a sheet at the area where he left the bodies?

Shanann and the girls had just come home from a six week trip. She was home a few days and had to leave again for the weekend in AZ.
CW had plenty of time to arrange things for his version of events.
Naturally, Shanann's DNA would be on their bedding & perhaps the girls, too.
Shanann was probably tired after her six week trip. Before leaving on her weekend to AZ, maybe she asked CW if he could wash the bedding or do laundry before she got back. Perhaps, he didn't wash them. I do believe this was premeditated. He did try to delete some Social Media (facebook).
What I'm trying to ask - does any other poster think he could've set the scene ahead of time? He did seem to be time restrained. But, why leave a sheet in the trash & at the site where the bodies were? Really? I mean that's Forensics 101.
I hope I'm making sense.
Can't get Shanann, Bella, Celeste or Mollie Tibbets of my mind.
Prayers to all of their families during these troubling and heartbreaking years ahead.
Sorry for any sp errors. Auto correct sometimes isn't 'correct'.

 

[Lola68]

Who even mentions selling their house when they fear their family has been abducted and has been missing for less than 48 hours?

A normal person desperately hopes their loving wife and children will return to that home they all live in.

This is another Freudian slip.

He's gotten rid of the family. Now he's let it slip he's thinking about getting rid of the house, too..... It's just part of his whole disordered thinking about freeing himself.

I’m sure this has been posted already, but going back to the video interview, it seems even more obvious now (BBM):

5:55 – 6:01 – “But it’s, sigh, I just want them back (smiles and laughs) I just want them to come back.”

6:02 – 6:14 – And if, if they’re not safe right now, that’s what’s tearing me apart, because if they are safe, they’re coming back, but if they’re not, this, this, this has got to stop, like this, somebody has to come forward.”

I know a number of posters have assumed that he wanted to get rid of his family as they were interfering with his new relationship, but I think he couldn’t bear the idea of Shannan leaving him and taking the kids, so he killed them all. “If I can’t have them, nor can you”. Final act of control/punishment was to take away the things most precious to her. JIMO

 

[rabbithole]

Not doubting NU-A's statement, but how can anyone let alone her son who I assume is young, see the car seats in the car (backseat) from outside the garage with no side window on garage exterior and the only windows into the garage are at the top of the garage door and they are very small. It would be difficult to get a clear view inside the garage let alone the car from that outside angle with it being light outside and dark inside the garage ~ it would be like looking into a tunnel because each pane of glass is narrow both in width and height . If the car was driven in front wards inside the garage, it would be even harder to see inside the vehicle especially into the back seat to see car seats. Plus, if the vehicle had tinted windows even harder.

I’m even more confused now..... upon looking at NUA SM, it seems her son is a teen or “tween”. The younger one is a toddler girl. I cannot imagine N being able to hoist the son up to look in the window OR vice verse!

 

[Davia18]

With so many different forensic type information available for anyone to view/research ...

Is it possible that CW isn't as 'dim' as many posters believe? What if he didn't haphazardly leave the bedding on their bedroom floor, sheet in the kitchen trash, and a sheet at the area where he left the bodies?

Shanann and the girls had just come home from a six week trip. She was home a few days and had to leave again for the weekend in AZ.
CW had plenty of time to arrange things for his version of events.
Naturally, Shanann's DNA would be on their bedding & perhaps the girls, too.
Shanann was probably tired after her six week trip. Before leaving on her weekend to AZ, maybe she asked CW if he could wash the bedding or do laundry before she got back. Perhaps, he didn't wash them. I do believe this was premeditated. He did try to delete some Social Media (facebook).
What I'm trying to ask - does any other poster think he could've set the scene ahead of time? He did seem to be time restrained. But, why leave a sheet in the trash & at the site where the bodies were? Really? I mean that's Forensics 101.
I hope I'm making sense.
Can't get Shanann, Bella, Celeste or Mollie Tibbets of my mind.
Prayers to all of their families during these troubling and heartbreaking years ahead.
Sorry for any sp errors. Auto correct sometimes isn't 'correct'.

I believe he had to go to work for his alibi and didn't plan on Nichole calling 911 right away (thank goodness for Nichole).
I believe he was going to come home from work and stage the scene, maybe break out a window, leave a door open and so on then call 911. IMO

 

[Waterdog]

Numerous reports state that the affair was with a co worket has been reported that it was a co worker who he was having an affair with.

Maybe SW discovered about the mistress and who she was and then contact her herself via text/call while away on business trip? enraging CW? maybe that coincides with CW's Facebook deletion so SW could not investigate or contact his friends and/or mistress who may have known about affair.

Oh, likely! And SW would have told her friend Nichole about this.

Some are speculating he had the girlfriend over that Sunday for a cookout. What if he killed the girls before having the girlfriend over (a la Casey Anthony - getting rid of the kid for a booty call). D,: And that is why he attempted to ditch the sheets? But didn't have time toe cleanup before leaving for disposal and work check in.

This is all really hard to type out. ),:

 

[Boodles]

Not doubting NU-A's statement, but how can anyone let alone her son who I assume is young, see the car seats in the car (backseat) from outside the garage with no side window on garage exterior and the only windows into the garage are at the top of the garage door and they are very small. It would be difficult to get a clear view inside the garage let alone the car from that outside angle with it being light outside and dark inside the garage ~ it would be like looking into a tunnel because each pane of glass is narrow both in width and height . If the car was driven in front wards inside the garage, it would be even harder to see inside the vehicle especially into the back seat to see car seats. Plus, if the vehicle had tinted windows even harder.

Listen to the interview. She did not say that her son saw car seats. She said she thought it was odd that CW said she was at a play date because her car was there (and that’s where the car seats were kept).

She also clearly said that when they went through the house, “the girls’ beds weren’t made...”

She was there. I believe her. I’m not aware of a source for the other versions of those events.

 

[Davia18]

I’m sure this has been posted already, but going back to the video interview, it seems even more obvious now (BBM):

5:55 – 6:01 – “But it’s, sigh, I just want them back (smiles and laughs) I just want them to come back.”

6:02 – 6:14 – And if, if they’re not safe right now, that’s what’s tearing me apart, because if they are safe, they’re coming back, but if they’re not, this, this, this has got to stop, like this, somebody has to come forward.”

I know a number of posters have assumed that he wanted to get rid of his family as they were interfering with his new relationship, but I think he couldn’t bear the idea of Shannan leaving him and taking the kids, so he killed them all. “If I can’t have them, nor can you”. Final act of control/punishment was to take away the things most precious to her. JIMO

I said this from the beginning, sadly not sure we will ever really know.

 

[Gardenista]

In an interview, Nickole says “I had my son look in the garage...” so she may have boosted him up to see through the window.

Also, she said the girls beds were unmade which was abnormal because Shanann was “very OCD.”

Interview here: Friend of woman allegedly killed by husband not 'shocked' by his arrest

Good catch. No doubt she boosted up her son

 

[CARIIS]

Presser:

In cases when a someone confesses they arrest them. Peroid. There were reasons why it took them some time.

Reason what he told them they did not believe . Fine. But the holdup , based on the confession with the reality that two children dead - meant that they had to think about they were gonna do as it relates to charges .

"We have strong reason to believe that we know were the victims are" - congruent with reported confession that he wanted his children out and did fasciite that,

I know disgusting ot do it in the first place I concur

Media title card on bottom of presser

"Husband confesses to killingS"

The plural is not a fact. That is not what he confesed to .

An accurate title call, based on documentation released by LE would be

"Husband confesses to killing Spouse"

that is what he confessed to -- just the facts media just the facts .

Question from press : SM is saying that he confessed to the murders.

(SM is where the rumor that he confessed he killing three people came from- never LE )
.
Answer ; Wont answer!

Asked about when it will unsealed .

Response We hope we will have made our final decision by Monday. Again if there is a murder, and a confession, it all happens.

The reason why they needed more days imo was to address some of what was in his confession.

There is no forensic evidence at this time to prove his confession , in total , one way or the other.

Now media question - has everything all backwards - the reporter is asking about her being seen at 5 by a friend . Totally wrong SM stuff

Whew memory intact. Noone from LE throughout the presser said he confessed to killing three people that night.

 

[Talisman]

I believe he had to go to work for his alibi and didn't plan on Nichole calling 911 right away (thank goodness for Nichole).
I believe he was going to come home from work and stage the scene, maybe break out a window, leave a door open and so on then call 911. IMO

That's what I mean, though. Maybe he had already staged the scene. The bedding & sheets would already have the DNA on them from not washing them after the North Carolina trip.
I know my posts are rambling messes sometimes. Sorry for not being clear. Can't seem to put my thoughts into articulate posts.

 

[riolove77]

Something I've been thinking of all morning --

Is there any way you think CW is going to try and go for a self-defense route? Granted, that is going to completely blow up in his face, but it may be possible. He says he saw SW strangling the children and so he went and killed her. It wouldn't surprise me if, what's next, is "I killed her because I thought she would come strangle me next."

When does he officially enter his plea? Or has he done so already?

Hi! Lawyer (and longtime lurker) here...CW's defense strategy at this point is likely going to be a defense of others claim...that is a defense that basically states that one person can interfere in defense of another, if that other person would be justified in using self-defense themselves. It is (in my opinion) the only reason the defense has come up with this...if the jury can be convinced that SW killed the children, and CW only stepped in in defense of them, then they could come about with a justifiable homicide defense, which would essentially acquit him of all charges if even one juror buys it....scary thought. However, given how early on in the case we are, the prosecution likely, and hopefully, has FAR more evidence that will directly challenge this claim.

Also - he has not yet entered a plea, and has waived his prelim. This means that the next status hearing (scheduled for Nov. 19 as of now) will still come before the prelim. However, he can plea at any point between now and then, though his apparent narcissism, and new "defense", make it unlikely he will plea at all, in my opinion. I think we are gearing up for a trial and a ride which will likely draw out for years...

 

[rabbithole]

Listen to the interview. She did not say that her son saw car seats. She said she thought it was odd that CW said she was at a play date because her car was there (and that’s where the car seats were kept).

She also clearly said that when they went through the house, “the girls’ beds weren’t made...”

She was there. I believe her. I’m not aware of a source for the other versions of those events.

She did not mention her car seats in that particular interview but it is stated in the arrest affidavit that N observed the car and car seats in the garage.

 

[molly1255]

Is that possible with the BANKRUPTCY, that he could be all about money? Records show Macy’s $1k and Nordstrom’s $3k balances. I admit I don’t pay close attention to name brands others are wearing - did he wear nice clothes???
It seems strange that someone who was “all about money” allowed? his wife to spend so much at clothing stores and get so deeply in debt in the first place. She insisted he had wanted another baby (obviously changing his mind, later) which would mean a lot more money spent.
I’m still thinking it was control. He thought he owned them - like a slave owner - he had papers on her and those kids. He could do whatever he wanted to them in his mind.
I had a mentally, eventually physical abusive (ex-)husband - he told everyone “I have papers on that b!tch” I left, I knew he would kill me one day - that was 30+ years ago, but I remember it vividly. I took a lot of psychology and sociology classes to understand and to avoid choosing men like him ever again.

Good for you on getting out! My thoughts are that this guy is a psychopath and he may never have been physically abusive, until he killed his wife and children. I definitely think he was covertly abusive and this likely involved financial abuse and possibly even serial infidelity and who knows what else. They usually have some sort of secret life that those around them have no clue about.

I think that throughout their marriage, SW may have gotten little glimpses into his real character, and things weren't always adding up with him, but she really loved him and wanted to believe he was the great guy she thought she married. I don't think he was ever that great guy, but only pretended to be, in order to suck her in.

A psychopath is anti-social personality disorder plus meeting certain criteria on the Hare Psychopathy checklist. These folks project a mask of sanity to those around them and they are very, very hard to spot. Interestingly, Dr. Robert Hare, who developed the checklist also authored a book entitled "The Mask of Sanity". Very often, they are not diagnosed until they are in the criminal justice system.

Just my thoughts. I'm not a professional, but I do have personal experience. These people are the great destroyers. They target kind, trusting and empathetic people as their victims and they feel incredible contempt towards their victims for the very good, human qualities that they possess.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

I wonder what was going on between CW and SW while SW was in Arizona on that final work trip because there is a photo on SM with the Thrive group in Arizona at a restaurant eating meals and SW didn't have any food in front of her ~ maybe she wasn't feeling well and was upset and some people can't eat when they are upset.

 

[cottonweaver]

You are correct Cariis, I never connected that point together before but I have not seen any documents or reports indicating that he confessed to killing the little girls. That ties into why he subtly shook his head "no" during the last hearing when judge was reading the murder charges about the little girls. He has enough where with all to act out that passive aggressive defiant motion to node "no" for the world to see. I actually believe he thinks he is the victim in all this in his mind. He has no remorse, no empathy for SW's family and he is feeling sorry for himself because he lost his freedom and his mistress.

Slightly at a tangent but....

Re his perception of self
Did you see his twitter account? It's almost all sports and then peppered, every so often, is a RT of some kind of heroism or compassion , often by a cop or member of military.

(I thought that was striking , the tweet from Aug 10th ( cop saves lifeless baby's life, tries CPR, drives off thru red lights to hospital *) could even be a smoksecreen though- if he'd premed all this prior to Aug 10th)

* That part also reminded me of an extract of his Denver7 interview where he's smiling ( almost proud) as he lies about "blowing thru stop lights" to get back home in the emergency. He was trying to put himself over as a hero! ( Even tho it was all BS)

CW is a real piece of work. ( Who is he vs who he wants to be.)

Plus look at that friends comment, few pages back wtte - he looked into your eyes and told you what was needed to make you warm to him.
As Dr Jack calls it - Dupers Delight - duping others as well as himself.