GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #60

[NewToSleuthing]

I seriously doubt she was buying hair products at 2am after a delayed flight exhaustion and emotional upheaval with CW. I think that was just when she got a notification for an earlier in the day/nite purchase or autoship( was it Amazon?) I was thinking she tried to make the purchase while she was awaiting her plane to take off, or even on the plane itself.

The Phone Data Review timeline starts on PDF page 1,883 (discovery page 2,078). The texts between CW and NK were deleted but there are texts between CW and SW listed as well as a breakdown of what NK was doing on her phone around the same time.

Thank you! And thank you to all who replied to my message with some pointers. I almost took a day to go thru the messages and it was REALLY hurting to read them! SW went thru so much in the last 4-5 weeks, truly truly REST IN PEACE beautiful lady especially knowing justice is served to some extent. She could have been bossy, authoritative etc etc but SW didnt deserve the treatment she got in the days leading upto Aug 13th. Communication and transparency was missing and I wish we can go back in time and CW just walks out of the house with zero explanation. IMO, he did what he did so he doesn't have to pay child support. When do people realize that money DOES NOT and CAN NOT buy things that a man needs(forget about wants!).
And to CW's family, who am I to judge? There may be zillion things between CW/SW and his parents that didnt come to light. CW is responsible to do the balancing act and he totally failed at it. SW should have got clues that if her man is not standing up for his parents then one day he will not for her as well. Total utterly failure on CW's part and he is solely responsible one!! NK - the lesser said the better, unbelievable....she did google Amber Frey book deal???

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I think NK's behaviour is understood if we consider that she wanted to get married and have own family. I was thinking, she had several failed relationships, and SW treated her well, and also, maybe there are not too many good guys around? Not drinking, not using, being smart at least in one area (technical), and in addition to it, good-looking? CW was married, true, but he and SW were on diverging courses anyhow, much earlier, it happens.

The only two things that bother me are, the erased text messages and the advice to pawn the ring. I don't think NK was complicit in the drama, but she might have been guessing something.

Still, all the blame for the killings lies on CW. And I would not be surprised if the thought to kill his family first came to his mind much earlier than he met NK. I think that we shall find no cruelty to animals in his childhood, nothing that would be the predictor. It is unfathomable, but he probably used to be a "nice guy" or "mellow guy", per descriptions, slowly accumulating hatred and rage.

I doubt we find past incidents of cruelty to animals in his past. Those type of perps get pleasure out of killing, they have a different motivation. Other FA’s do not have distubing pasts, no violence. It was my understsnding that prior to Shan’ann leaving for the summer things were good. Chris said in one of his LE interviews that he fell out of love with Shan’ann because he fell in love with NK. Yes, they had stresses before NK, but I really do not think they were having a troubled marriage.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned previously but during the interrogation after the failed polygraph and before CW confessed I felt that the detective interviewing him put the idea that SW killed the girls in CW head. He asked if SW hurt the girls and even gave examples of when a mother had harmed her children. Up to and even during this CW maintained that SW was a good mom and would never hurt the girls. However immediately after this conversation CW asked to speak with his father and then blamed SW for killing the girls. I was disturbed that this technique was used because of this claim there has been a huge amount of hatred and blame put on SW and I really wonder if it was not for the detective mentioning this to CW that he would have ever used this "excuse".

Definitely yes.

 

[celticthyme]

Can anyone get an epi-pen or is that only prescribed by a medical specialist after testing? Not to you, but to anyone who might know.

Need an Rx for that. Some of those run into the $100 + dollars

I'm thinking also they are dosage specific, because a child would need a different dose than a 200# man.

 

[kkdj]

I doubt we find past incidents of cruelty to animals in his past. Those type of perps get pleasure out of killing, they have a different motivation. Other FA’s do not have distubing pasts, no violence. It was my understsnding that prior to Shan’ann leaving for the summer things were good. Chris said in one of his LE interviews that he fell out of love with Shan’ann because he fell in love with NK. Yes, they had stresses before NK, but I really do not think they were having a troubled marriage.

I think he was (is) probably just a milk toast and could be molded by whoever gave him the most attention. No depth.

 

[Charlot123]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned previously but during the interrogation after the failed polygraph and before CW confessed I felt that the detective interviewing him put the idea that SW killed the girls in CW head. He asked if SW hurt the girls and even gave examples of when a mother had harmed her children. Up to and even during this CW maintained that SW was a good mom and would never hurt the girls. However immediately after this conversation CW asked to speak with his father and then blamed SW for killing the girls. I was disturbed that this technique was used because of this claim there has been a huge amount of hatred and blame put on SW and I really wonder if it was not for the detective mentioning this to CW that he would have ever used this "excuse".

In general, the explanation is so poor and childish - "Shanann did it" - that I wonder how certain people could even buy it and stand by him. No need to blame it on the detective.

 

[PommyMommy]

Googling SW on Sept 1, 2017.

NK could have seen these videos and photos from August from Shanann's Instagram and facebook:

Aug 6 SW and CW in swimsuits by a pool: Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “You know because we #DUO #thrive”

Aug 8 SW and CW video with CW's parents and Bella and CeCe in downtown Denver: Shanann Watts

Aug 10 video of Bella and CeCe eating Parmesan cheese at a restaurant (CW is heard in background): Shanann Watts

Aug 25 Photo with Bella and the caption:
I love this girl so much! She's such a mamas girl! She came into my room this morning saying she needed me and wanted me. I feel like she senses what I'm feeling and when I'm nervous, sad or worried. I'm having Anterior Cervical Disectomy done Tuesday and they are doing an arthroplasty for my disk on C5-C6 and I'm a little nervous. She has been holding her neck complaining it hurts for weeks! Bella is one special little girl! #ShesCompassionate #Loving #Caring #OldSoul #LoveMyGirls
Shanann Watts

Aug 26 CeCe in a Target shopping cart: Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “It's Saturday and I'm excited! And generous! $100 CASH BACK To the next THREE NEW PROMOTERS that join me with the $200 pack! $200…”

Aug 26 photo of CW with CeCe on his shoulders: Shanann Watts

Aug 26 post of photo Gallery with caption: This what happens when we let Chris watch the girls while we run errands, network and get things done. Girls have their sassiness on full power! Shanann Watts

Aug 27 photo gallery wishing SW's mom Happy Birthday with pics with Chris and the girls: Shanann Watts

Aug 27 reposting of CW singing and Dancing Hot Digity Dog: Shanann Watts

Aug 28 Photo of SW and CW together in their living room with the caption:
Late Dinner Date with my amazing supportive hubby! He rocks and couldn't imagine life without him! #BossCouple #ThrivinCouple #PowerCouple #Forever Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Late Dinner Date with my amazing supportive hubby! He rocks and couldn't imagine life without him! #BossCouple #ThrivinCouple #PowerCouple…”

Aug 30 post on SW's facebook:
This is Chris, I wanted to let everyone know Shanann's anterior cervical discectomy and Fusion (ACDF) with Arthroplasty implant (aka neck surgery) yesterday went well. She is going to be staying another night. She's in a lot of pain, but she's doing good. She's strong and still trying to help others. Thank you everyone for prayers and checking in on her!

Aug 31 photo gallery of Bella and CeCe with Caption saying she missed her girls and thanking her friends for taking care of them (I assume SW was in the hospital still recovering): Shanann Watts

--------

The next photo on instagram is from Sept 7th of SW in her neck brace after surgery (with CeCe and Bella): Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “I have 3 samples going out today! Are you next? Message me #ThriveExperience #thrive #minithriveexperience #Energy #focus #mentalclarity…”

NK could have known from her Sept 1st google that they had kids by those photos and videos. In August they look like a happy couple/happy family going by their social media. NK may have also been able to find out about SW having surgery-- Chris had access to SW's facebook and posted about it on the 30th. I think the timing of the Sept 1 search and SW's surgery is interesting. You don't need a Facebook or Instagram to see any of the above.

The timing makes me wonder if CW had laid early groundwork for plans to possibly hook up with NK while SW recovered from surgery. I'm not saying their relationship started then but it makes me wonder. Didn't SW's parents come out to CO to help with the girls during this time? I'm not sure if his in laws being in town would have made it easier for CW to claim he was "working extra hours" to pay medical bills or more difficult for him to sneak around. What do you guys think?

This case has fried my brain. I don't remember if Shanann's parents were in CO for her neck surgery or not. I know that when she was pregnant with CeCe, they moved to Colorado for about 15 months. I don't think inmate Watts' affair with NK started that early, and hoping the next document dump provides us with ALL the text messages from her phone and his. Thank you for all these links! MOO

 

[gitana1]

Thank you! And thank you to all who replied to my message with some pointers. I almost took a day to go thru the messages and it was REALLY hurting to read them! SW went thru so much in the last 4-5 weeks, truly truly REST IN PEACE beautiful lady especially knowing justice is served to some extent. She could have been bossy, authoritative etc etc but SW didnt deserve the treatment she got in the days leading upto Aug 13th. Communication and transparency was missing and I wish we can go back in time and CW just walks out of the house with zero explanation. IMO, he did what he did so he doesn't have to pay child support. When do people realize that money DOES NOT and CAN NOT buy things that a man needs(forget about wants!).
And to CW's family, who am I to judge? There may be zillion things between CW/SW and his parents that didnt come to light. CW is responsible to do the balancing act and he totally failed at it. SW should have got clues that if her man is not standing up for his parents then one day he will not for her as well. Total utterly failure on CW's part and he is solely responsible one!! NK - the lesser said the better, unbelievable....she did google Amber Frey book deal???

No. When parents act inappropriately, especially toward one's mates or children, it is up to the son or daughter to set boundaries and protect their mate and children. Not "stand up for his parents". You don't stand up for people who are doing the wrong thing.

 

[Tortoise]

I may be giving them way too much benefit of the doubt but I just don't feel safe concluding they /wanted/ or expected to hurt Cece with the peanuts. I see it as a more older generation stubbornly dismissing all the “newfangled allergies”. I'm willing to admit Cindy may have been way more sinister about it but honestly when I read the history between them and Shanann I can see how compared to their seemingly quiet and mellow son (and yes he had something going on under the surface I'm not saying he was just a quiet mellow guy) Shanann could have seemed a bit intense and particular.


I've wondered what the cross contamination at the engagement party actually entailed. I honestly can see how from their viewpoint she was blowing up on them and calling them evil when they weren't intending malice (though maybe they were and I'm way off?).


I do agree though, damn, they barely got to see their grandkids even if they absolutely think it's foolish and she was out there with her food demands just do what you can to make peace. It's not how I would have done things. I just think it's tragic for /everyone/ and don't feel good about ripping apart one set of grieving grandparents. Though I may very well be giving them too much credit because the whole case is mind boggling to me.

So what about his sister putting nuts on the table then, she isn't older generation. She's a mother with young children herself.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I may be giving them way too much benefit of the doubt but I just don't feel safe concluding they /wanted/ or expected to hurt Cece with the peanuts. I see it as a more older generation stubbornly dismissing all the “newfangled allergies”. I'm willing to admit Cindy may have been way more sinister about it but honestly when I read the history between them and Shanann I can see how compared to their seemingly quiet and mellow son (and yes he had something going on under the surface I'm not saying he was just a quiet mellow guy) Shanann could have seemed a bit intense and particular.


I've wondered what the cross contamination at the engagement party actually entailed. I honestly can see how from their viewpoint she was blowing up on them and calling them evil when they weren't intending malice (though maybe they were and I'm way off?).


I do agree though, damn, they barely got to see their grandkids even if they absolutely think it's foolish and she was out there with her food demands just do what you can to make peace. It's not how I would have done things. I just think it's tragic for /everyone/ and don't feel good about ripping apart one set of grieving grandparents. Though I may very well be giving them too much credit because the whole case is mind boggling to me.

I agree, I don’t think Cindy intentionally wanted to harm Cece or did not care if she harmed her. I saw the video of her kissing on those girls when she arrived for a visit, she did love them. Unfortunately she let her hate for Shan’ann guide her actions and it seemed she never missed an opportunity to let her know that. Disregarding her request to not have nuts in the house was nothing more than a big middle finger to Shan’ann, so blinded by her hate she refused or was incapable of seeing the consequences of her actions.

 

[Mitch11]

Let's see just how violent is he? Ummm he strangled his little daughters,and pregnant wife to death. I think it's safe to say you can skip the test,and put him in max security, solitary.
Just saying.
Moo

I totally hear what you are saying and agree. Sadly, in the wider picture of prisoners he is likely to be deemed less violent than other criminals.

They look for things such as age of first violent offense, how many past violent offences, his past criminal history, including types of violent crimes (eg robberies, assaults, arson etc), past relationship violence such as DV, overall aggressive behaviour twiards others, type of violence used in his current crime.

I absolutely hate saying this but his crime was targeted specifically at one group of people (eg his immediate family) which he committed in a weak, pathetic way. Remember he's 'Mr Nice guy' on his best behaviour in prison.

I'm just hoping DOC take into consideration his predatory nature (eg waiting to they were asleep) and the absolutely cold, and calculating way he did the crimes and attempted to cover them up. Plus they should add on bonus points for his stupidity.

Regardless, he's not coming out which means he's in for one miserable existence for the rest of his life.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I think he was (is) probably just a milk toast and could be molded by whoever gave him the most attention. No depth.

Yep, a sluggish piece of clay to mold. I think those who research him will find just what you said, lack of depth, identity, lack of ability to bond and connect with others on a true emotional level.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

So what about his sister putting nuts on the table then, she isn't older generation. She's a mother with young children herself.

I think his family was hell bent on causing problems between SW and CW and they were willing to go to any lengths to get what they wanted.
jmo

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

SEE IT: Chris Watts sent unsettling photo of a doll covered by a sheet to Shannan Watts days before her murder — and his father tried to use photo to claim murdered pregnant mom ‘planned’ killings
Wow.
Just SMH . The lengths these sociopaths have gone to smear,and blame Shannan for everything. It's all coming back to them like spit in the wind.

 

[kkdj]

deleted

 

[NewToSleuthing]

No. When parents act inappropriately, especially toward one's mates or children, it is up to the son or daughter to set boundaries and protect their mate and children. Not "stand up for his parents". You don't stand up for people who are doing the wrong thing.

Sorry, I should've said stand up for the right thing.... poorly worded, my bad! The sadness has consumed me and I am still struggling to come out!

 

[kkdj]

deleted again.

 

[curiouschat]

So what about his sister putting nuts on the table then, she isn't older generation. She's a mother with young children herself.

I missed that part. I saw that she noticed more nuts out accessible in the document but not who put it out there and I wasn't positive if she had not noticed them or if it was just something in the kitchen that wasn't put up and away? I'm not even sure if they were having some kind of ice cream bars with nuts or like had bowls with different toppings?

 

[Mitch11]

I agree, I don’t think Cindy intentionally wanted to harm Cece or did not care if she harmed her. I saw the video of her kissing on those girls when she arrived for a visit, she did love them. Unfortunately she let her hate for Shan’ann guide her actions and it seemed she never missed an opportunity to let her know that. Disregarding her request to not have nuts in the house was nothing more than a big middle finger to Shan’ann, so blinded by her hate she refused or was incapable of seeing the consequences of her actions.

Some families have a real messed up way of knowing and showing what 'love' is.

You can see why the term love is socially constructed, with people having their own definition. As in my world, putting your allergic grandchild at risk to get back at their mother is not love and never will be.

 

[PommyMommy]

I may be giving them way too much benefit of the doubt but I just don't feel safe concluding they /wanted/ or expected to hurt Cece with the peanuts. I see it as a more older generation stubbornly dismissing all the “newfangled allergies”. I'm willing to admit Cindy may have been way more sinister about it but honestly when I read the history between them and Shanann I can see how compared to their seemingly quiet and mellow son (and yes he had something going on under the surface I'm not saying he was just a quiet mellow guy) Shanann could have seemed a bit intense and particular.

I've wondered what the cross contamination at the engagement party actually entailed. I honestly can see how from their viewpoint she was blowing up on them and calling them evil when they weren't intending malice (though maybe they were and I'm way off?).

I do agree though, damn, they barely got to see their grandkids even if they absolutely think it's foolish and she was out there with her food demands just do what you can to make peace. It's not how I would have done things. I just think it's tragic for /everyone/ and don't feel good about ripping apart one set of grieving grandparents. Though I may very well be giving them too much credit because the whole case is mind boggling to me.

Mama Watts knowingly and willfully put a child's life, her own granddaughter no less, in danger to spite her daughter-in-law. There is no excuse for that. Inmate Watts even agreed: "l will call him and tell him what I think about this. lt's not *advertiser censored**ing cool at all because it is the kids. I will set this right." Chris Watts’ wife called his parents 'evil and stupid' one week before her murder | Daily Mail Online
MOO