GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #69

[margarita25]

Welcome to WS @TridentBlu,

I too don't want to believe CW killed the girls at Cervi because that means the girls traveled with their deceased mother on the floor boards of the truck -- knowing they were not going to the "hospital" to get her help.

I also think the detectives were suspicious that the girls may have been alive at Cervi. At one point during their interrogation, I recall detectives asking CW if the girls were alive when he put them in the tanks -- to which CW recoiled saying NO, NO, absolutely not! When asked about the blankets, I believe CW said he left them at the site (like the sheet), and they likely blew away. I don't know if they were found in the truck as others have alleged. CW had plenty access, and very likely he destroyed them before he was called to come home. MOO

(Ugggghhh)

Venting: This is such a horrific turn of events! I’m so mad and upset about this (I know you guys are too!)

I mean, what a twist! Did anyone here suspect this? Iirc someone might have even have made this suggestion in the early days and was laughed out of the water (metaphorically speaking of course).

I mean, we considered this, and pretty much decided this was unlikely, am I correct? (“This” specifically referring to them being alive at Cervi)

Grrrr.

 

[gitana1]

No matter what, CW will always control the narrative of what happened that terrible night. There are no other accounts. He has proven himself a liar and manipulator. I don’t think we can ever 100% believe anything he says. There is so much evidence to lend credence to the theory that this was premeditated. This recent account still maintains that it was a rage killing, that he had to kill the kids because BW witnessed something...it’s still a story to deflect the full accountability that he planned this.

How could the girls, knowing what just happened, ride in that truck with their dead mother’s body for close to an hour and LE not find a single hair of theirs in the truck? Fingerprints?

Once he killed SW he couldn’t leave them home alone to dispose of SW’s body. Maybe he thought he could dispose of the body and the kids wouldn’t realize what was going on, and after checking on the site he could be “called home” to take care of something. That way he could avoid killing the kids. But they knew what was going on so that didn’t work. I think this story is a step closer to the truth but I still have a lot of doubts.

Yes. I have always believed this was likely premeditated as to all three. As time went on, the feeling became certainty.

He had planned a trip for the next weekend with his girlfriend.

He called his co-workers to make sure they didn't go to the site where he dumped the bodies.

His girlfriend did not want a man who had children. She resented that and said she wasn't sure if he was the one, as a result (pg. 617 of discovery).

His kids knew mama was pregnant. Bella could've talked about that with the villainess NK. He did not want NK finding that out, IMO.

The way he stared so eerily and silently at his girlfriend the night before he murdered his family. He knew what he was going to do.

He seemed detached and uninterested in his children in various videos before he killed his kids. In the NC videos and some before that. I think a person has to make themselves detach before they can murder their babies.

He would not have had the funds on his one salary to please what I believe was his high maintenance woman, AND afford to care for two kids. Remember, no more Shanann to bust her tail to get work-sponsored trips. But he was planning them anyhow for his new "boo" AND he was searching jewelry for her.

He was not going to be able to bear the costs of childcare, the expensive 3 bedroom apartment NK thought he should have, school, clothes, etc., and be able to pay for his girlfriend.

Those kids had to go.

His conduct directly after he slaughtered his family. This is not the conduct of a man who went into a rage or reluctantly got rid of witnesses. I think he didn't care if Bella witnessed what happened to mommy because she was next.

I'm with you. He's confessed but again it's with slightly mitigating details. We fought. She said something. I became enraged.

Nah. I don't believe that exhausted and sick pregnant woman came home and fought with him and had sex and fought again. She went to bed.

But he's defective. So he doesn't understand how abhorrent it is that Bella begged for her life or witnessed her mom and sister's murders. He's more concerned with saying that Shanann drove him to it and that he really didn't want to kill the girls - "See! I even drove around with them for a long time trying to figure something else out!" - but had to do it.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Could somebody please be so kind to give any input on this question as I try to catch up? This is really bugging me and sorry for rehash and repeat if this has been discussed, which it likely has.

I know DP asked if there were any trades/incentives provided for CW in exchange for these furthers details and the answer was no.

But IF CW is the MNP (“malignant narcissist psychopath”) that DP says he is, which I believe to be true, then this would indicate a possible self serving motivation. My question is, and especially to @gitana1, how would and could the divulgence now of these details possibly serve CW’s own narcissistic needs? What are the potential advantages he receives from this (other than “repenting his sins”), either legally or otherwise? Hope this makes sense, thanks.

—-

Also, I’m still confused as to why the investigators went back to talk to him as a team, only because I assumed the case was closed since the suspect sentenced. Was it just to try to clear some things up for themselves and for the family? I got the impression from Rourke at the PC after the sentencing that he pretty much accepted they might not ever understand why and exactly how he did all this.

Did they think anticipate that CW might break? Do we know for sure that LE initiated the discussion? Thank you again in advance for answering any of these questions.

—
PS: Yesterday when I sat down with my pen and notebook and DP on the big screen with pause and rewind I thought “wow, I never thought we’d all be here again...”.

The length of the interview being 5 hours surprise me very much. That is long enough for a 3-hour lie detector test, plus two hours of interview. Who knows, we will see tomorrow

 

[Bambina]

I understood from what was released that he killed both girls in the truck or at the site, but it wasn't clear to me that he actually climbed up and dumped (heartbreaking even to type) Cee Cee before returning to murder Bella? Is it possible he murdered them both (Cee Cee first, Bella second) and then dumped them both? I can't imagine Bella in that truck waiting and waiting. Also, do we know where the truck was parked? Finally, I thought I read earlier in this thread from discovery that car seats were found in his truck. Can someone clarify that issue?

 

[Seattle1]

Would any part of his comings and goings have been recorded on the doorbell cam? I've seen the one of Shanann returning home and it seemed to me as if there is a possibility some of it might have been captured.

The Watts home included a 3 car garage, and I believe CW backed his truck to the garage furthest away from the front entry, and why there was no capture of this on their doorbell cam.

 

[esayer]

Why kill the girls? Because they knew what was happening. I can imagine the entire car ride they were freaking out and CW was more than ready to dispatch them upon arrival at the site. This is unreal.

 

[esayer]

People, do I really have to go into detail about the oil tanks? They were NOT put in easily; he broke their bones to get them in. The rest you may read up on as I can't bring myself to go into further detail. They came out easily because they were in a gloved state. I'm seeing a lot of talk based on emotion, not fact or constructive conjecture.

Dude the kids didn't have broken bones. You need to read the discovery and past threads. We have been over this dozens of times already.

 

[margarita25]

I understood from what was released that he killed both girls in the truck or at the site, but it wasn't clear to me that he actually climbed up and dumped (heartbreaking even to type) Cee Cee before returning to murder Bella? Is it possible he murdered them both (Cee Cee first, Bella second) and then dumped them both? I can't imagine Bella in that truck waiting and waiting. Also, do we know where the truck was parked? Finally, I thought I read earlier in this thread from discovery that car seats were found in his truck. Can someone clarify that issue?

Iirc from DP, Bella was killed virtually immediately after CeCe. Is this correct? It seems I started taking notes and dropped the pen right about here. I believe it would’ve been around 19:00ish of DP)

Why kill the girls? Because they knew what was happening. I can imagine the entire car ride they were freaking out and CW was more than ready to dispatch them upon arrival at the site. This is unreal.

(&&)/:?,!,-$;!!)

 

[esayer]

If ever there was a murder case that needed to go to trial, this was it. People are going to argue this case in the court of public opinion for the next one hundred years because there is too much/not enough info on what may or may not have happened. Basically lies and gossip. No facts or evidence to convince a jury to convict or acquit. Just back and forth and the words of more than one liar. If and until he goes on trial, there is nothing really more to say that will give anyone a definitive conclusion.

Except there is a definitive conclusion and you refuse to believe it, unbelievably.

 

[Seattle1]

I understood from what was released that he killed both girls in the truck or at the site, but it wasn't clear to me that he actually climbed up and dumped (heartbreaking even to type) Cee Cee before returning to murder Bella? Is it possible he murdered them both (Cee Cee first, Bella second) and then dumped them both? I can't imagine Bella in that truck waiting and waiting. Also, do we know where the truck was parked? Finally, I thought I read earlier in this thread from discovery that car seats were found in his truck. Can someone clarify that issue?

Clearly CW evil enough to make Bella watch and wait, but I believe he killed her before taking CcW to her tank disposal. I say this only because Bella was capable of getting out of the car seat/truck on her own.

Also, it was highly unusual for the girls to ride in CW work truck so I'm not certain about car seats located in the truck. Car seats were definitely found in the Lexus -- that was widely reported when they were first reported missing. MOO

 

[Gardenista]

Clearly CW evil enough to make Bella watch and wait, but I believe he killed her before taking CcW to her tank disposal. I say this only because Bella was capable of getting out of the car seat/truck on her own.

Also, it was highly unusual for the girls to ride in CW work truck so I'm not certain about car seats located in the truck. Car seats were definitely found in the Lexus -- that was widely reported when they were first reported missing. MOO

There were no car seats in the truck. We learned yesterday the girls were seated in the back, seatbelts buckled with their feet on Shanann's body.

 

[gitana1]

At what point in his “passionate, unpremeditated” state do we think he hid Shanann’s cell phone?

Lol.

 

[gitana1]

I think there are a few reasons why this case captured such a big interest:

* Attractive family and life - they look like people who "have it all."

* Videos! We have so much footage to watch. And whether you like all the videos or not, it's easy to feel like you know these people. All four of them have such distinct personalities that are revealed in the videos. It's intriguing to watch them and look for clues to what was brewing. The videos are there to return to after learning new information about the family and the case. The videos bring smiles, frustration, perhaps dislike. They also give a complete sense of the unfairness of what SW and the girls went through.

* Interviews. Interviews are not unique to this case, but CW's porch interviewers were such red flags to crime followers that is intriguing to find out how and when he will be caught in lies.

* Oil tanks! It's horrific where he deposited the girls and the detail, frankly, makes the case stand out from others. When you hear about the oil tanks, it pulls you in to learn more. When I first heard oil tanks, I assumed something like a barrel and when I saw what the tanks actually looked like, it was all the more shocking. Shocking cases get attention.

* One of the first statements I recall about the case is that he said his DNA would not be found on them (on their necks if I recall correctly?). Well, it's tempting to follow the case to see if that will in fact be proven true and to find out why he would say that.

* Cast of characters. The case has interesting characters from the friend who came looking for her (we all admire her!) to unkind in-laws (boo!). Oh, and people coming forward claiming to be CW's lovers. The amazing interrogator. On and on.

* Documents! I've never followed a case with a document drop like this one. It's easy to feel involved with the case to be able to read the documents. And it's interesting to discuss with others.

* The "reveal" about the Other Woman. That's not particularly unique and a bit predictable, but it keeps the interest up.

* Fast pace. This case moved quickly. And with the plea deal, there was no wait for a trial.

The case definitely has just about everything to keep up interest. Mostly, I think it's SW's videos. The public got to know the family.

jmo

Perfect summation!

 

[margarita25]

I can’t wait to hear all this straight from the horses mouth in his own words, and at what specific verbal directive/inquisition.

Actually not really.

 

[NuttMegg]

I understood from what was released that he killed both girls in the truck or at the site, but it wasn't clear to me that he actually climbed up and dumped (heartbreaking even to type) Cee Cee before returning to murder Bella? Is it possible he murdered them both (Cee Cee first, Bella second) and then dumped them both? I can't imagine Bella in that truck waiting and waiting. Also, do we know where the truck was parked? Finally, I thought I read earlier in this thread from discovery that car seats were found in his truck. Can someone clarify that issue?

Being pressed for time, IMO he killed them both, dumped each in separate crude oil tanks at nearly the same time or left one at the bottom of the stairs for a minute, then buried SW.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Yes. I have always believed this was likely premeditated as to all three. As time went on, the feeling became certainty.

He had planned a trip for the next weekend with his girlfriend.

He called his co-workers to make sure they didn't go to the site where he dumped the bodies.

His girlfriend did not want a man who had children. She resented that and said she wasn't sure if he was the one, as a result (pg. 617 of discovery).

His kids knew mama was pregnant. Bella could've talked about that with the villainess NK. He did not want NK finding that out, IMO.

The way he stared so eerily and silently at his girlfriend the night before he murdered his family. He knew what he was going to do.

He seemed detached and uninterested in his children in various videos before he killed his kids. In the NC videos and some before that. I think a person has to make themselves detach before they can murder their babies.

He would not have had the funds on his one salary to please what I believe was his high maintenance woman, AND afford to care for two kids. Remember, no more Shanann to bust her tail to get work-sponsored trips. But he was planning them anyhow for his new "boo" AND he was searching jewelry for her.

He was not going to be able to bear the costs of childcare, the expensive 3 bedroom apartment NK thought he should have, school, clothes, etc., and be able to pay for his girlfriend.

Those kids had to go.

His conduct directly after he slaughtered his family. This is not the conduct of a man who went into a rage or reluctantly got rid of witnesses. I think he didn't care if Bella witnessed what happened to mommy because she was next.

I'm with you. He's confessed but again it's with slightly mitigating details. We fought. She said something. I became enraged.

Nah. I don't believe that exhausted and sick pregnant woman came home and fought with him. She went to bed.

But he's defective. So he doesn't understand how abhorrent it is that Bella begged for her life or witnessed her mom and sister's murders. He's more concerned with saying that Shanann drove him to it and that he really didn't want to kill the girls - "See! I even drove around with them for a long time trying to figure something else out!" - but had to do it.

Yep- she made me do it. I 100% agree with your assessment about NK, she was going to run the show just like Shanann had to do in their marriage. Because he has a type that he needs to have or wants to have and he picked the same type again with his girlfriend, is why I never thought Shanan being in charge was ever a thorn in his side - not till he started his affair and he needed to have reasons to justify why he did not like his wife anymore. I’ve read way too many comments that he finally felt like an equal with the NK, I don’t know how they see that at all, lol.

 

[Inthedetails]

Clearly CW evil enough to make Bella watch and wait, but I believe he killed her before taking CcW to her tank disposal. I say this only because Bella was capable of getting out of the car seat/truck on her own.

Also, it was highly unusual for the girls to ride in CW work truck so I'm not certain about car seats located in the truck. Car seats were definitely found in the Lexus -- that was widely reported when they were first reported missing. MOO

I was assuming he killed Cece, brought her to the tank, and returned to the vehicle to do the same with Bella.

But now that WSers are pointing out he likely killed both at the truck at the same time and then deposited them one by one, I think that is probably more likely.

Well, I can see it either way.

Bella was only 4 and in a strange and scary place in very confusing circumstances. I don't know if she would've run away from the truck. I think she was literally scared stiff, and at the same time, hopeful to the end that her daddy wouldn't really, truly harm her. She was only 4 and a sweet child, not one accustomed, imo, to running from someone hurting her. She didn't know what to do.

I realize I am likely projecting. I had scary incidents and strong fears as a child that this new revelation is bringing up. As a child, I reacted to the fear by being silent and completely still - not fighting, not screaming, not running....while hoping it would all just end and everything would be okay.

Her heart was broken because her daddy betrayed her trust in him (yes, I know he did much, much, much more than that, but I'm thinking as a 4yo at this time who was very confused and very scared). I hate knowing that she was likely so confused and even hopeful up until the moment he killed her.

Still, I do agree with others that it would've been likely faster to kill them in quick succession in the truck.

jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

Clearly CW evil enough to make Bella watch and wait, but I believe he killed her before taking CcW to her tank disposal. I say this only because Bella was capable of getting out of the car seat/truck on her own.

Also, it was highly unusual for the girls to ride in CW work truck so I'm not certain about car seats located in the truck. Car seats were definitely found in the Lexus -- that was widely reported when they were first reported missing. MOO

Yes, I'm pretty sure I read that he did kill Bella before carrying Cece to the tank. Imo

 

[gitana1]

Welcome to WS @TridentBlu,

I too don't want to believe CW killed the girls at Cervi because that means the girls traveled with their deceased mother on the floor boards of the truck -- knowing they were not going to the "hospital" to get her help.

I also think the detectives were suspicious that the girls may have been alive at Cervi. At one point during their interrogation, I recall detectives asking CW if the girls were alive when he put them in the tanks -- to which CW recoiled saying NO, NO, absolutely not! When asked about the blankets, I believe CW said he left them at the site (like the sheet), and they likely blew away. I don't know if they were found in the truck as others have alleged. CW had plenty access, and very likely he destroyed them before he was called to come home. MOO

He backed the truck in so no one could see what he loaded but he only backed the very end in. I just don't think he carried out her body in full site of anyone who happened to drive by and any cameras and then placed it on the floorboards of the truck cab. It doesn't make sense.

It also doesn't make sense that he allowed his kids to walk out of the house one by one and toddle up to him in full view of the street, to drive to his work site.

 

[gitana1]

Yep- she made me do it. I 100% agree with your assessment about NK, she was going to run the show just like Shanann had to do in their marriage. Because he has a type that he needs to have or wants to have and he picked the same type again with his girlfriend, is why I never thought Shanan being in charge was ever a thorn in his side - not till he started his affair and he needed to have reasons to justify why he did not like his wife anymore. I’ve read way too many comments that he finally felt like an equal with the NK, I don’t know how they see that at all, lol.

Me either. Her arrogant, cocky decisiveness in the interrogation. No way.