CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #73

[gitana1]

Look up where and when her phone pinged that morning, and if it had ever pinged in that particular area before. I'm sorry I can't remember if it is in the discovery or if the info was released later by LE, but it was released. There are YT sites that presented the phone pings in detail. With maps, normal routes to work, etc.

JMO but I don't think he had any help from her re murdering them or moving the bodies. But they had a long phone call late the night before, IIRC 111 minutes, just short of 2 hours. Neither of them would divulge what that was all about. It's my own personal opinion that between the date on Saturday and the phone call on Sunday night there was an ultimatum presented to him. That's what I think.

Oh I agree. Although I don’t think it was for him to kill his family. But I do think it had to do with leaving them.

 

[kkdj]

That woman’s electronics showed she repeatedly searched social media for Shannan Watts, during the time she was dating Chris. So she had to have known Shannan was pregnant and praising her husband Chris. No sign of separation.

Her texts to her girlfriend also showed her resentfully sulking about how she wanted a man with whom she could have “firsts” with, like having kids. But Chris already had them.

She seems like a shady narcissist to me. Much like his mother. I think it’s clear this woman fully knew he was married, not separated and had a baby on the way, but wanted the guy.

However, she had to punish him for having a family and repeatedly reassure herself that she was more important than them, by doing things like petulantly insist he “get back together” with his wife and making comments and doing things to try to make him prove she was the most important thing to him.

Did she murder the family? Did she participate? No.

But I think it’s quite clear she was the trigger. And while I’m sure she didn’t intend for him to kill his family, I think she was engaged in a sick, personality disordered push-pull, probably much like his own mother, and she didn’t much care about the fallout for the wife and kids from that. She just cared about herself and what she wanted.

IMO, she’s not a good human being.

Couldn't be better said!

 

[kkdj]

I think he knew it was evil. He just didn’t care and he thought he’d get away with it.

MOO

He just didn't care. Void of love for his own children.
Funny (not haha funny) how sex seems to be the driver for some people.

 

[kkdj]

Oh! And I suspect there were some drug enhancers involved in their relationship.
moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

I feel like it portrayed her honestly. It's okay for someone to be imperfect. Imperfection doesn't mean you deserve to be murdered. Everyone has flaws and is imperfect.
I do think that once someone has been killed in such a way then there is room to be more forgiving of their flaws than you would otherwise. They have been robbed of the chance to grow and change.



Unlike a lot of people here I feel like his mistress isn't really to blame in any way? She was told he was separated. Even if he blatantly told her he was cheating, it's still not her fault. It's Chris's.

Also she went to the cops and told them she didn't think he was acting the way he should be, and she stopped seeing him. Given how many women stand by their murdering men and/or strike up a relationship KNOWING they're murderers (of their wives no less), I think that does count for something.

Shanann, Cece and Bella are dead because of Chris, no other reason. If it wasn't this woman it would have been another. I actually think she's lucky she didn't end up with the same fate.

NK might not have been involved physically with these murders, but I sure as hell think she was knew A LOT more than she admitted.

Why would she delete all of her text messages between herself and that filthy perp before handing her phone to LE?

She spoke to CW for hours right before the murder, she was helping him search for a rental property.....the list goes on.

Who knows what else might have been uncovered before she deleted their communications?

JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

Oh I agree. Although I don’t think it was for him to kill his family. But I do think it had to do with leaving them.

Me neither, I didn't mean that she gave him an ultimatum to kill them. He wasn't being honest with her, he wasn't being honest with his wife, he had no core of values or anything of strength to fall back on, to make hard decisions, so he took the easy way out, for him, just get rid of everyone he had already moved on from.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think they have bots that scour the public records in high profile cases - either electronic or researchers. We have to file a court action on a name change - just like a lawsuit - hearings, etc.

I am curious though - did she never once look at his social media and see he was married with children or did he not have any accounts?

NK knew from the beginning that Chris was married with two children but he told her they were separating.

He deleted his FB account when Shanann and the girls went to NC. According to the VI, he did this because Sannann wouldn't stop posting lovey dovey posts on his account, or something like that.

Of course during this time he was seeing NK nearly every day, and he wouldn't have wanted her to know about the pregnancy or that they weren't actually separated.

Before Chris went to join his family in NC, his lover apparently encouraged him to try one last time to see if he really wanted to get divorced. He came back and told her that he tried to talk about it with Shannan but she would not change her mind and she told him the marriage was over.

Of course the opposite was true. Chris had already distanced himself from both Shanann and the girls and she was trying desperately to save their marriage in the weeks before the murder. She admitted her mistakes and was willing to make compromises while he couldn't even work up the courage to admit he was having an affair.

 

[MsBetsy]

NK might not have been involved physically with these murders, but I sure as hell think she was knew A LOT more than she admitted.

Why would she delete all of her text messages between herself and that filthy perp before handing her phone to LE?

She spoke to CW for hours right before the murder, she was helping him search for a rental property.....the list goes on.

Who knows what else might have been uncovered before she deleted their communications?

JMO

I think LE was able to recover most of the deleted messages. She was probably embarrassed and ashamed after learning that he had murdered his wife and children. I don't think she could have ever imagined it would end that way and she probably didn't believe it at first.

Chris did the same with NK as he did with everyone else. He molded himself into the person they expected him and wanted him to be. Just like he tried to present himself to his coworkers and his boss as the "good guy."

 

[CocoChanel]

Here’s a reminder:

Websleuths’ TOS do not allow bashing or trashing ANYONE’s appearance, even a POI, suspect, or accused or convicted person. Doing so will get that post removed, AND all posts that quoted it, and the one after that, and the next, and so on, and so on. It is similar to the “fruits of the poisoned tree” element in the judicial system. Please be careful of where the discussion you are participating in originated from. If it was from a post that violated TOS, subsequent posts may be removed because they all stemmed from that one offending message that then resulted in multiple others disappearing as well. I hate when that happens, but there is no way to keep subsequent posts that are quoting posts that no longer exist. Post carefully and prudently to be sure yours can stay.

CocoChanel
Moderator

 

[Eloise]

I agree to the bolded portion to an extent. There is LOTS that we will never know about her or about Chris.

Absolutely, but the family were happy with it on the whole, so it's probably as close as we'll ever get.

 

[Seattle1]

NK knew from the beginning that Chris was married with two children but he told her they were separating.

He deleted his FB account when Shanann and the girls went to NC. According to the VI, he did this because Sannann wouldn't stop posting lovey dovey posts on his account, or something like that.

Of course during this time he was seeing NK nearly every day, and he wouldn't have wanted her to know about the pregnancy or that they weren't actually separated.

Before Chris went to join his family in NC, his lover apparently encouraged him to try one last time to see if he really wanted to get divorced. He came back and told her that he tried to talk about it with Shannan but she would not change her mind and she told him the marriage was over.

Of course the opposite was true. Chris had already distanced himself from both Shanann and the girls and she was trying desperately to save their marriage in the weeks before the murder. She admitted her mistakes and was willing to make compromises while he couldn't even work up the courage to admit he was having an affair.

^^bbm

I also recall NK's story to authorities about how she allegedly told CW to try and save his marriage just before he left for NC to reunite with his family.

But instead of believing this the right course of action, NK wasted no time sending CW pics of herself while he was in NC, saved to his secret calculator app -- all the while SW wondering what the heck happened to the husband she'd known and loved for a decade.

Good riddance to NK and any future alias.

 

[DaisyKenny]

I think LE was able to recover most of the deleted messages. She was probably embarrassed and ashamed after learning that he had murdered his wife and children. I don't think she could have ever imagined it would end that way and she probably didn't believe it at first.

Chris did the same with NK as he did with everyone else. He molded himself into the person they expected him and wanted him to be. Just like he tried to present himself to his coworkers and his boss as the "good guy."

IIRC, NK was the one who provided about a dozen texts between her and CW to LE out of what should have been hundreds.

The biggest coincidence for me was how CW claimed that is was NK who asked him to look up the lyrics to Metallica's song "Battery" right after he disposed of his little girls in oil tank batteries.

CW also claimed in the prison interview that NK told him to delete everything right after his family went missing, but only after she confirmed that LE didn't have possession of his phone.

Of course CW could have lied since that's what he does.

I also don't think NK was at the house when he loaded the truck that morning. And if she was there, she probably would have driven the Lexus out of the garage not long after he left at 5:45.

But the Rzuceks are bothered by all the conspiracy theories.

It would upset me too if people were claiming someone else was responsible for murdering my loved ones and making money off their already debunked theories under the guise of justice.

 

[MsBetsy]

^^bbm

I also recall NK's story to authorities about how she allegedly told CW to try and save his marriage just before he left for NC to reunite with his family.

But instead of believing this the right course of action, NK wasted no time sending CW pics of herself while he was in NC, saved to his secret calculator app -- all the while SW wondering what the heck happened to the husband she'd known and loved for a decade.

Good riddance to NK and any future alias.

Yeah, I think she was "testing" him when she asked him to try to save the marriage one last time. She didn't want to get burned. She mentioned to detectives that she had seen all the pictures of Shanann and the girls and didn't understand why he would want to leave all that. She must have been very insecure.

After Shanann and the girls went missing Chris was apparently worried that NK would leave him after finding out about the pregnancy on the news. He had just killed his wife, daughters, and unborn son and he was worried that her finding out his wife was pregnant would jeopardize their future.

 

[Seattle1]

Yeah, I think she was "testing" him when she asked him to try to save the marriage one last time. She didn't want to get burned. She mentioned to detectives that she had seen all the pictures of Shanann and the girls and didn't understand why he would want to leave all that. She must have been very insecure.

After Shanann and the girls went missing Chris was apparently worried that NK would leave him after finding out about the pregnancy on the news. He had just killed his wife, daughters, and unborn son and he was worried that her finding out his wife was pregnant would jeopardize their future.

Yes - she tried to paint herself to investigators as the product of divorce and how much she meant her plea to save his marriage with but must have forgotten all about it every time she hit "send" with yet a new racy photograph... And CW's babies little bodies were disintegrating in petroleum and he was worried about NK. They truly deserved each other.

 

[Doghairrules]

I don't recall if I interacted much at the time but I followed in the early days and watch along side many others while his porch front interview aired live.
That rocking/shifting from side to side, arms folded over his torso.
That weird, twitchy smile.
Even for so many who really didn't know much about body language from liars (myself included), folks just KNEW.
It was palpable in all the messages flying back and forth.
He was quite probably one of the worst guilty liars I've ever had the displeasure of watching lie.

Right? And in some ways that is shocking because his entire life was a lie. But he wasn’t used to people questioning him and he ran out of time to google how is a husband and father supposed to feel when wife and daughters go missing. Ugh.

 

[PommyMommy]

Maybe @PommyMommy is around to remind me what the source of this is, there was quite a report on the first day she went to Shan'ann's house to visit CW while SW was on the east coast. He had spent the night at Nichol's place the night of the 3rd July, and on the morning of the 4th CW had to suddenly leave so that he could get SW's calls at home. Then, later on that day, 4th July, NK went over to the house, they had lunch there, she went there to help him with his macro diet app, she said. She went up to the area where the bedrooms were, and commented on how many books the girls had. She got bent out of shape at seeing all the evidence like pics of the actual wife of the house, had a snit fit, and went out to her car to sit in it, while texting with CW who was in the house. Then she visited Shan'ann's house one other time, about 10 days later, IIRC. First she told the investigators she just went there only once, then changed her story to two times. I think the report of her visits to the house were in CW's interviews on Feb 18 2019 with FBI, etc. IIRC Or maybe part from her interrogation and part from him, later.

Some of that is from NK's 8/16/18 audio interview starting just after the 18 minute mark and it was also discussed in her 8/21/18 phone interview with the CBI which is summarized in the discovery on pages 647 and 648 (pdf pages 574 and 575). I don't remember the part about her going back out to her car but your memory is better than mine, Nuttmegg!

8/16/18 audio MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINES - NO DISCUSSION - - Shanann Watts (34, dec.), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4

1960 page discovery doc here: Christopher Watts murder case file: Read all 1,960 pages

 

[NuttMegg]

Yeah, I think she was "testing" him when she asked him to try to save the marriage one last time. She didn't want to get burned. She mentioned to detectives that she had seen all the pictures of Shanann and the girls and didn't understand why he would want to leave all that. She must have been very insecure.

After Shanann and the girls went missing Chris was apparently worried that NK would leave him after finding out about the pregnancy on the news. He had just killed his wife, daughters, and unborn son and he was worried that her finding out his wife was pregnant would jeopardize their future.

Did we ever hear CW confirm that story she told about wanting him to try to save the marriage? I've been racking my brain, I remember the story only coming from her interviews with LE.

Given the photos she send him in NC I think she made that up for LE.

 

[NuttMegg]

Some of that is from NK's 8/16/18 audio interview starting just after the 18 minute mark and it was also discussed in her 8/21/18 phone interview with the CBI which is summarized in the discovery on pages 647 and 648 (pdf pages 574 and 575). I don't remember the part about her going back out to her car but your memory is better than mine, Nuttmegg!

8/16/18 audio MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINES - NO DISCUSSION - - Shanann Watts (34, dec.), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4

1960 page discovery doc here: Christopher Watts murder case file: Read all 1,960 pages

Thank you, PM! I knew you had your handy pinterest resource. I definitely remember about her going out to the car and texting with him still inside the house. I think it came from that long Feb 18 interview that we heard a month or so later, ie his account of her having the emotional reactions inside of his house. I remember thinking hey, that's strange, her sitting in her car in front of his house on the 4th of July with curious neighbors out and about. But I don't have the heart to listen to that 5+ hour-long tape again.

 

[kkdj]

Did we ever hear CW confirm that story she told about wanting him to try to save the marriage? I've been racking my brain, I remember the story only coming from her interviews with LE.

Given the photos she send him in NC I think she made that up for LE.

I don't think he ever verified that story. And I've never thought it was true either. This was a highly sexual affair imo and they were going to keep it up no matter what imo. I think CM was concerned if NC found out the truth of him still being married to a pregnant wife, but only because he had lied to her from the get go.
moo

 

[MsBetsy]

Did we ever hear CW confirm that story she told about wanting him to try to save the marriage? I've been racking my brain, I remember the story only coming from her interviews with LE.

Given the photos she send him in NC I think she made that up for LE.

No, I don't think he ever confirmed it, but he's doesn't have the best record for telling the truth. He probably wanted to avoid any mention of working out his marriage because that would mean having to confront and admit to how hard Shanann tried to save the marriage in the weeks before the murder and how he pretended to go along with it. I think he had already decided to get rid of her but he wanted investigators to believe he lost control the night Shannan came home and it wasn't premeditated.


Suggesting that he try to work it out one more time while sending sexy pictures of what he is missing just seems like something a competitive, insecure lover would do. Women who have affairs with married men worry that the man will never actually leave his wife and children even when they say they will. I think seeing the pictures in the home of what looked like the perfect family would have put doubts in her mind. I think it was her way of testing him to make sure he would follow through with giving up his home, his car, and the life he was accustomed to for a new life with her in her tiny apartment.

As it turned out, he was more than willing since he annihilated his entire family.