Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #57

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Why not? I think it's possible.

Yes, I agree that it's possible. That's the whole point of social distancing, closing everything down, and washing like crazy with soap. As victims are harder to find, the virus will peter out. It's already happened in places that have been vigilant.

But, without humans working hard to stop the spread, I can't see it petering out on its own. For this virus, the world is its oyster.
 
I have a question for you that I've always wanted to ask. I've never used an ambulance. Am I correct in my understanding that if the fire department and their emergency people come to give you oxygen or you faint and they take you off the toilet and put you back in the bed, and you never go in an ambulance, you are not charged? That it is part of your city tax that gives you that and you don't have to pay unless you take an ambulance to the hospital and then you were charged?

I'm not asking for a friend, I'm asking for myself because I've always wondered that.

ETA: I just remembered, I have been in an ambulance before. In 8th grade when I was riding my bicycle Barefoot and my foot flew off the pedals and went into the front Spokes and I went Head Over Hill and landed on my chin. That elderly couple went into their house and got wire clippers to cut my toes out. My toes weren't right for about six months. As an eighth grader I was yelling all types of dirty words and an elderly couple came out and called an ambulance and I was transported by ambulance to the hospital at that time. My parent was notified, but after I was in the ambulance on the way? I was in 8th grade and I never asked my mother about that when I got older so I don't know.

I can't say for certain with other EMS systems, but here in the city, you only get a bill if we transport you to the hospital--even if we treat you on scene (this includes administering drugs). If we assess you and/or treat you, but you decide to refuse transport (and you are of sound mind & of age), then you don't have to get transported and you won't get a bill. This, however, has led to abuse by some that have figured out the system and use it to their advantage. Eventually, I can see the possibility of that backfiring in the form of added fees.

Our system here is a bit different, in that it's mostly not financed by city taxes, if at all, and the employees are not technically city employees (long story). The systems in our surrounding counties are part of their county's budget, and everyone is a county employee, but one of them charges supplemental fees (I don't remember whether or not they still charge when a pt refuses transport), while the other doesn't charge anything at all.

Both the city and county offer programs where you pay X amount of money per year (it used to be $65/year), and you generally wouldn't have to pay anything in the event you need an ambulance. It's a pretty sweet deal if you use EMS.

You probably wouldn't have had a choice as an 8 y/o, unless they got a hold of your guardian before transport. But I'm glad you had some friendly neighbors to come to your rescue =) Hopefully your toes made a full recovery!
 
eta, this is Virginia Beach

The beach at the Oceanfront was closed. But the crowds were large.

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The beach at the Oceanfront was closed. But the crowds were large.

lol, people out here are acting like they just survived a zombie apocalypse instead of just being asked to stay home except for essential trips :rolleyes:

I guess you don't feel like you're suffering as much when you're a introvert like me, but I don't feel bad that I've had it easier. It sucks to live in an extrovert's (non-pandemic) world. It's finally my time to shine!

ETA: Just to clarify, most of the state entered phase 1 of re-opening (though it might technically start tomorrow), so it's now a "safer at home" order, with the exception of the localities that requested not to move forward yet. Of course, I doubt this is what phase 1 was meant to look like.
 
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I used to think that I was quite health conscious and quite clean.

Do you shudder about all of the "gross" stuff that you used to do?

Salad bars, movie theaters, gyms, shaking hands, attending church!

Remember how every one thought Michael Jackson was weird? He always wore gloves, a face mask, never wanted to shake hands or touch things? Now, he was really just ahead of his time.
Michael Jackson 'predicted coronavirus and that's why he wore a facemask'
 
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Sorry, Georgia/South Carolina.
They told my cousin that since his wife tested positive for him to assume he had it too and didn’t need a test. o_O
In Ohio both my MIL and FIL were tested a few days ago. No symptoms and no known contact with any positives. Just a precaution before their regular appointments for pain shots. I was surprised.
 
If we had on average one to two percent of population infected, and had 90,000 die, to hit 60-70 % needed for herd immunity would mean nearly 3 million deaths.
The problem is we don't really know how many people have been infected.

Antibody surveys suggesting vast undercount of coronavirus infections may be unreliable

Surveying large swaths of the public for antibodies to the new coronavirus promises to show how widespread undiagnosed infections are, how deadly the virus really is, and whether enough of the population has become immune for social distancing measures to be eased. But the first batch of results has generated more controversy than clarity.

Antibody surveys suggesting vast undercount of coronavirus infections may be unreliable
 
Sorry, Georgia/South Carolina.
They told my cousin that since his wife tested positive for him to assume he had it too and didn’t need a test. o_O

Could this have been 2-3 weeks ago? Because test kits were still being held for symptomatic patients in many places. At any rate, if he never had symptoms, he can go get an anti-body test. He would have started showing symptoms about 3-7 days after his wife got it.

Some people who have very mild cases may not be forming antibodies. There are two newer antibody tests with 98.5-99% accuracy that are just now rolling out, so maybe he can wait and be tested. At the time, they wanted him to assume he had it and self-quarantine.
 
WATCH: Lionel Richie, 'American Idol' revive 'We Are the World'
Iconic anthem delivers a message of global solidarity amid COVID-19 pandemic

“Thirty-five years after Lionel Richie and Michael Jackson combined to write the charity anthem “We Are the World,” Richie presented an updated version Sunday night with the help of “American Idol” contestants past and present.

The new single closed out the Season 18 finale of “Idol” on an inspirational note as the nation — and the world — continues to struggle with hardships brought on by the coronavirus pandemic.”


Eta: Lionel hasn’t aged a bit moo...
 
Texas cases of COVID-19 increasing by thousands since reopening

There are now 45,198 confirmed cases of COVID-19, the illness caused by the virus, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services. That is an increase of 1,347 cases from Thursday to Friday. The new numbers have not yet been recorded for Saturday.

Last Friday, the daily case increase was 1,219.

While the cases are still well below New York, the state with the most confirmed cases at more than 345,000, the steady increase shows that the curve has not yet flattened in Texas.

The state also experienced its highest and second-highest daily death toll just a day apart. On Thursday, 58 deaths were recorded in 24 hours and Friday that number dropped only slightly to 56, according to the health department. The total number of fatalities is at 1,272.

Last Friday, the daily death toll was 31.

Texas cases of COVID-19 increasing by thousands since reopening

Nothing To See Here, Move Along.
The number of COVID-19 cases in Texas has decreased by over 1,000 cases in one day, despite the fact that Texas has increased its testing rates exponentially.
A0337836-9E64-4837-98F7-43FFD8B95477.jpeg

We have 45 thousand cases and 1,200 deaths with a population of 30 million. 400 of those deaths are in one city.

New York has 350 thousand cases and 22 thousand deaths with a population of 8 million.

From the article you linked:

Gov. Greg Abbott's communications director John Wittman told ABC News that the amount of testing has doubled since reopening, contributing to the rise in cases.

"Since [COVID-19 testing] started, we did 330,000 tests in March and April. Since May 1, we have done over 330,000 -- so in 16 days we have doubled our testing from the previous entire two months," Wittman said.
"The governor has been clear that as the state of Texas conducts more tests, we will see the raw number of cases rise," Wittman said. "However, the [rolling seven-day] average positivity rate has steadily declined from our high April 13 [of a bit more than 13%] to around 5% today.

”Our hospitalizations remain steady, and Texas has one of the lowest death rates per capita in the nation."

The number of Houston-area coronavirus cases is at 14,784 with 382 deaths, 5,607 recoveries
 
Coronavirus Updates: China Locks Down Northeastern Province; Texas Sees Largest One-Day Increase in Cases | The Weather Channel

“Concerned about a resurgence of the virus, Chinese officials have quarantined 8,000 people and reintroduced lockdown measures in the province of Jilin in northeastern China.

Fears of another wave of COVID-19 have also rattled South Korea, where confirmed cases thought to be linked to Seoul's nightclub cluster rose to 168.

Meanwhile, eight more sailors aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt have tested positive for the virus — bringing to 13 the number confirmed to be infected after having negative tests. It is not clear if sailors have been re-infected or if very low levels of the virus remained in their bodies and testing had not caught it, CNN reported, citing an unnamed Defense Department official.”

—-

Hundreds of villages locked down in northeastern China after fresh coronavirus outbreak
Over 1,000 residential buildings have also been quarantined in Shulan, officials said.



Sailors on sidelined USS Theodore Roosevelt get virus for second time

“Five sailors on the U.S. aircraft carrier sidelined in Guam due to a COVID-19 outbreak have tested positive for the virus for the second time and have been taken off the ship, according to the Navy.”

[...]

“All five sailors had previously tested positive and had gone through at least two weeks of isolation. As part of the process, they all had to test negative twice in a row, with the tests separated by at least a day or two before they were allowed to go back to the ship.”
 
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Coronavirus Updates: China Locks Down Northeastern Province; Texas Sees Largest One-Day Increase in Cases | The Weather Channel

“Concerned about a resurgence of the virus, Chinese officials have quarantined 8,000 people and reintroduced lockdown measures in the province of Jilin in northeastern China.

Fears of another wave of COVID-19 have also rattled South Korea, where confirmed cases thought to be linked to Seoul's nightclub cluster rose to 168.

Meanwhile, eight more sailors aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt have tested positive for the virus — bringing to 13 the number confirmed to be infected after having negative tests. It is not clear if sailors have been re-infected or if very low levels of the virus remained in their bodies and testing had not caught it, CNN reported, citing an unnamed Defense Department official.”

—-

Hundreds of villages locked down in northeastern China after fresh coronavirus outbreak
See my post above, Margarita! We (Texas) just had a huge decrease in cases yesterday. Great news!
 
Could this have been 2-3 weeks ago? Because test kits were still being held for symptomatic patients in many places. At any rate, if he never had symptoms, he can go get an anti-body test. He would have started showing symptoms about 3-7 days after his wife got it.

Some people who have very mild cases may not be forming antibodies. There are two newer antibody tests with 98.5-99% accuracy that are just now rolling out, so maybe he can wait and be tested. At the time, they wanted him to assume he had it and self-quarantine.


What Covid-19 antibody tests say — and don’t say — about immunity

"There have been reports of a few patients out of China who had mild symptoms of Covid-19 who did not have detectable neutralizing antibodies after recovery, though they did have another form of antibody that binds to the virus. "It's unclear whether they have protective immunity," Nature reports. Tracking these sort of people long term, for instance, can help us better understand what mix of antibodies is necessary for enduring immunity."
 
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No. I don't think that how I used to live everyday, without wondering if everything I touched was infected with some invisible monster that wanted to invade me and everyone I came in contact with is gross.
*This new "Normal" is the grossest thing I've ever dealt with in my life.
This is Gross and infuriating to me.
I want it stopped, investigated, shut down, and I NEVER want anything else like this happening again.
<modsnip: politicizing>
We are smart, we need to take control of our medicines and whatever else we depend on. Mo



I used to think that I was quite health conscious and quite clean.

Do you shudder about all of the "gross" stuff that you used to do?

Salad bars, movie theaters, gyms, shaking hands, attending church!

Remember how every one thought Michael Jackson was weird? He always wore gloves, a face mask, never wanted to shake hands or touch things? Now, he was really just ahead of his time.
Michael Jackson 'predicted coronavirus and that's why he wore a facemask'
 
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Must Move Forward. Worry about the consequences later.

The lack of business sense, Astounds me. We've become such narcissists, we think we can get away with anything. Large companies getting bailouts from the bills meant for small businesses. Just because.

Starve everyone else, and build up extreme demand to open back up, and start cruising again. Because, you know, $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

When one of 2 things happens, either people don't rush back onto cruise ships, or some do rush back, and there are inevitably outbreaks, then people will stay away even longer, and the result will be more financial pain.

But that's why these corrupt CEO's get the big bucks. Everyone else gets the shaft, or in this case....everyone else gets the Virus. Yay!

Cruise line CEO’s didn’t get any bailout money.


*The following is from the article SoCal and another poster were discussing, in particular about the crew members still in limbo floating around on cruise ships.*

‘Two cruise line crew members stuck at sea have committed suicide by jumping overboard
.’

Many crew members say they will never work in the cruise industry again.’

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article242565281.html
 
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I think we do include the nursing home figures in our death toll, but they are announced separately at different times of day then combined. Help me out Tresir, Cagney, Phooey? I go by Coronavirus Update (Live): 4,798,957 Cases and 316,514 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer and BBC UK virus deaths dip to lowest level since March
Sundays and Mondays are always lower, but it is so great to finally see a three figure number starting with a "1". Hopefully our downward trend continues. But a drop in vigilance will see that evaporate very quickly unless this virus does not like summer as some do not which may help us out.
I agree that comparing countries by bare statistics is problematic. The excess death tolls of all countries for this time of year will tell a story. Some of those deaths will be accounted for by other health problems that people were too afraid to seek medical help for but most probably down to undiagnosed Covid-19.

I do think that you have to take into account that densely populated and congested cities, of which England, as opposed to Scotland, Wales and Ireland has far more of, will inevitably promote infections, this is to be expected. How internationally connected places/countries are such as London, New York etc, how much public transport is a big factor too. And the proportion of people from ethnic minorities in these cities who are being hit very very hard by this virus in the UK and in the US definitely, which hasn't received enough attention.

And don't tell anyone, but we Brits are fatter than a lot of our European friends sadly. And that looks to be a high risk factor. Fact remains IMO that we lost a lot of lives here because our government did not take lessons from other countries, chiefly Italy seriously enough and dithered. One day they might admit it, a lot of British people already know it.
I don't think they were adding them on initially and then there was a big jump when they added on abou 5k in one lump. Not positive what each nation includes in their figures though TBH. Am assuming they are adding them in now. Am just catching up on some posts but TY for your posts and for your service. There is still a difference in the ONS death figures that is unexplained AFAICS.
 
Agreed. The UK population density is approx 700 people per square mile, England on its own is over 1000, London is more like 10,000. London got hammered because of all the reasons HKP mentioned added on to plane loads of families flying in from half-term skiing holidays in northern Italy /the Alps. Had this happened a few weeks earlier, and had overseas travel been restricted BEFORE half term at the end of February, our case numbers would surely have been much lower. Same with the other Euro countries.

The USA as a whole has a very low population density in comparison - well under 100 people per square mile on average - and some of their higher density areas have been hit in a similar way to the UK. We are roughly the same size as Oregon, but with 66 million people living here.

I reckon lots of people in big cities will relocate after this. I know three families leaving London when this is over: one because of financial reasons (he lost his job, they can sell up and buy somewhere bigger up north), one because they can now work from home more and commute less so don't need to be central, one simply because they no longer want the hustle and bustle of rammed tube stations, trains and buses.

Look out rural UK, the townies are coming lol!!

Completely agree with all your points here. I so hope the new pop up bike lanes stay in London to help the transport system. Plenty of room in the country for all the townies. Everyone welcome.
 
“In separate, stark warnings, two major European leaders bluntly told their citizens that the world needs to adapt to living with the coronavirus and cannot wait to be saved by the development of a vaccine.

The comments by Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson came as governments worldwide and many U.S. states struggled with restarting economies blindsided by the pandemic. With 36 million newly unemployed in the U.S. alone, economic pressures are building even as authorities acknowledge that reopening risks setting off new waves of infections and deaths.

Pushed hard by Italy’s regional leaders and weeks in advance of an earlier timetable, Conte is allowing restaurants, bars and beach facilities to open Monday, the same day that church services can resume and shops reopen.

”We are facing a calculated risk, in the awareness … that the epidemiological curve could go back up,” Conte said. “We are confronting this risk, and we need to accept it, otherwise we would never be able to relaunch.”

Conte added that Italy could “not afford” to wait until a vaccine was developed. Health experts say the world could be months, if not years, away from having a vaccine available to everyone despite the scientific gold rush now on to create one.

Britain’s Johnson, who was hospitalized last month with a serious bout of COVID-19, speculated Sunday that a vaccine may not be developed at all, despite the huge global effort to produce one.

“I said we would throw everything we could at finding a vaccine,” Johnson wrote in the Mail on Sunday newspaper. “There remains a very long way to go, and I must be frank that a vaccine might not come to fruition.””
-more at link

Shanghai to restart classes as New Orleans diners return – NewsRadio 560 KPQ
 
Yes, the data suggest that in the hardest hit states, rates really are coming down, fairly steadily. There will be bumps in the road. But the case rates are going up in the states that reopening, of course (to be expected). We don't know how quickly they'll go up. We have to keep in mind that this disease grows exponentially. Look at the church in Butte County, California. They jumped the gun, decided to have a Mother's Day church service, and 180 new cases resulted from just that single 2 hour event.

Having someone breathing, while closer to you than 6 meters, it takes about 14 minutes to gather enough virions in your membranes (especially your eyes) to contract the disease.

And while certainly, this is an age-graded disease, the median age is lower in the US and UK than elsewhere, due to underlying conditions. So, in states where the rates of underlying conditions (like diabetes) are already high, there will be higher mortality. 25% of the CoVid dead in the US are diabetics, and the age range for them is much different than for people-at-large.

So let's say we have a long tail of (optimistically) 1000 deaths per day. That's 250 diabetics per day. If 250 people were being hit as pedestrians per day, we'd be shocked and call for major changes in street design and so forth. We'd warn people not to cross the street until the problem was solved.

And when a person decided to cross the street, the ensuing death would be only theirs - not impacting health or mortality for the non-crossers (so CoVid entails even more personal responsibility than car driving or walking across intersections).

1000 deaths per day is 30,000 deaths per month (approximately the entire number of ANNUAL deaths in car accidents, pedestrians included).

At what point will it be "few enough" deaths? 15,000 a month is still a lot. It would remain the leading healthcare nightmare in the US for years, pushing other illnesses to the bottom of the list and reshaping how preventive medicine works and which doctors stay in business.

BTW, many jurisdictions don't report deaths on the weekends (my county doesn't). It takes 3-7 days for symptoms to show up, which is what prompts people to go get tested and the case rate to go up. States have barely reopened.

It's entirely too early to make any claims about reopening. But I will say that I'm very interested in overall mortality rates, in the end. Georgia's rate looks to be about 14 deaths per 100,000 residents - so if it were on the international list, by itself, that would be very low. I hope that helps contextualize their eagerness to reopen.

Michigan's is closer to 50 in 100,000. Concerning.

I've posted links about these topics before. The data on deaths per place are publicly available and posted many times a day here (worldometer is a good source or just Google "Covid _______ state name."

But one can easily see how even Michigan pales in comparison to places with ~500 deaths per 100,000. US as a whole is 260 per 100,000 last time I checked. If we backed New York out of that data, it would be ~125, IIRC.

Which opened up states are going back up? I would like to monitor them as UK is partially opening up a bit.

Just to point out, where you are quoting the deaths per 100,000 I think you must mean deaths per million right? Big difference obviously.
 
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