Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #79

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In depth interview by Dr. Sanjay Gupta with Dr. Fauci:



ilovewings said:
I have a question which has been on my mind for a long time- it might be a stupid question but i am going to ask anyway: if the coronavirus is in the air, why don't we get it from just breathing the air: why do we only get it from person to person transmission?
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In the above interview, aerosol vs. droplet transmission is discussed. I’m not sure if it will answer your question, but it may help shed some light.
 
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COVID-19: 200,000 deaths yet no one seems to be mourning | 9news.com
While individual families grieve the life of loved ones, it does not seem the country is grieving collectively as we have after previous events

"The families who have lost loved ones to COVID are really the only ones that get this loss," said Lea Ann Lyster, whose 21-year-old son Cody died from COVID-19 earlier this year. "Obviously, other than our family and friends, life goes on. Life goes on. But not for us, We’re living in a new reality. I won’t even call it a new normal because there’s nothing normal about Cody not being here. It’s just our new reality."

The Lyster family is a family still grieving. Cody Lyster's parents said he was a healthy guy with no pre-existing conditions who loved baseball. They said goodbye to him over a video call while he was in the ICU.“
 
10ofRods said:
You could go read the scientific literature. There are many ways these deaths could be avoidable.

Your sentence, that I bolded, makes no sense whatsoever. What is the "average age of death" to you? Have you consulted actuarial tables there?

I'd suggest looking at actuarial tables, then get back to us. You're actually saying that people with CoVid are living longer than they would have had they gotten the average number of years left to them as established by the very thorough methods of actuarial science. I do not agree with you at all and you won't be able to find a juried scientific article that agrees with you either.

In fact, all the excess death studies are saying the opposite.
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I believe OP is confusing the average life expectancy at birth, with the life expectancy of older adults.

As you say, a person who has reached age 75 in the USA has a life expectancy of 87. A person who has reached the age of 80, has a life expectancy of 89. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_07-508.pdf

<modsnip>
 
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Sundog said:
Seems like this is a problem around the world - in the U.S., Canada, UK, Australia, and other countries. Perhaps society will now open their eyes to how we collectively treat our citizens in their elder years.
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You listed only Anglophone nations - and I don't think that's a coincidence. In Greece, South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Cambodia and many other nations, there was a strong desire to protect everyone - including the elderly.

And that's what they did.

What's sad about the care homes (as you can see from some posts today) is that people assume all of the people in them were just going to die, never get out. Many are there to convalesce from hip or knee replacement or some other similar issue. They stay for a month, maybe. Even if they could afford at home healthcare, none is available where they live (this is what happened to my mom and dad). Mom went home from the care home a few times (and died in hospice in a hospital). Her first major surgeries were in her mid-60's but she lived another 20 years.

But I will say that the number of people who think that older people receiving a death sentence from CoVid is in a class of deaths that's less worthy or important has made me question just how much I want to spend mental energy on the health problems of strangers. The number of people who shrug about the life expectancy thing has really been eye-opening to me. I thought people cared about health and longevity - but obviously, about half of Americans do not.

A shorter, less healthy life (because CoVid is causing longterm symptoms in at least 20% of patients - if not more) is apparently just the ticket for some people.

For the record: I'm finding my 60's to be very pleasant (until recently) and very productive. The guy who is in charge of the Oxford Vaccine project looks to be close to 70 - and most of the principal researchers at that institute look to be 60 or over.

So lack of care for the elderly is either aimed just at the elderly poor - or if not, at the elderly in general. I think we're already seeing profound social consequences in life due to so many older people staying home. A world dominated by the young is, apparently, a good thing - but without the wisdom, knowledge and stabilizing presence of older people, it's a different world.

People won't realize until so many doctors and nurses are dead from CoVid that they really will have their own healthcare served up differently - and not in a good way. American medical schools already struggle to bring only top notch students to their programs, and we're seeing a drop off in undergrads designating themselves pre-med or pre-nursing. Who would want to go into medicine right now? Answer: not as many as two years ago, which was already a shrinking number.
 
Satchie said:
I believe OP is confusing the average life expectancy at birth, with the life expectancy of older adults.

As you say, a person who has reached age 75 in the USA has a life expectancy of 87. A person who has reached the age of 80, has a life expectancy of 89. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_07-508.pdf

However, the whole idea that you can or should quantify these things is absurd and leads to arguments like: "I have 50 years left to live and Grandma only has 8, so I'll arrange for her to die now so I can make use of her money."
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ITA. My dad lived to be 99 (at which point he still had a life expectancy of 5 years). His sister (a chain smoker) lived to be 97. His cousins lived to be 100 and 105. IOW, this was a long-lived clan.

CoVid is a painful disease to die of, it's a lonely disease to die of.

People do indeed confuse LE at birth with overall LE. I am in the group where there's 3-3.5% mortality from CoVid (way hire than any other risk I've ever taken), and I should have another 21 years left. If I can make it through the next 5 years, I'll still have about 20 years left (the 60's are treacherous for certain disease outcomes).

So I really do wonder why we even bother putting labels on cigarette packages (to prevent deaths, right?) if so many people actually just don't care, either about themselves or others.

But I'll bet my bottom dollar that every single one of these "It mostly affects others" will change their thinking if in fact they get a moderate to severe case of CoVid.

I do doubt, though, whether they care if they get a mild or asymptomatic case and pass it on to a dozen others. <modsnip>
 
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ilovewings said:
I have a question which has been on my mind for a long time- it might be a stupid question but i am going to ask anyway: if the coronavirus is in the air, why don't we get it from just breathing the air: why do we only get it from person to person transmission?
Click to expand...

It's a virus. It's made of a tiny molecule called RNA. Air is gases in our environment (oxygen, nitrogen, CO2, etc). The virus "rides" mostly on tiny water droplets that are suspended in air. Air also contains water (called humidity - right now, there's a lot of humidity where I live).

It's not the "air" that's the problem, it's that CoVid floats in the air. In dry air, it stays aloft longer, in humid air, it drifts more quickly to the floor.

It isn't only airborne. But it can't replicate in air, only inside a human body - with the longs being the most available and hospital host for CoVid.

A CoVid+ person breathes about 100,000 virions (individual CoVid units) into the air with each breath. Children, while hosting CoVId, expel far less per breath (but as they get older - by around 12-14, they're pretty much capable of breathing out 100,000 per breath).

We do not get CoVid from breathing in non-CoVid infected air. Unless someone comes to my house (who has CoVid) the air in my house is safe, it has no CoVid.

When we are outdoors, the volume of air recirculated is quite high (especially if there's a breeze). So a person exhaling CoVid has those 100,000 virions dispersed over a very wide area - quickly.

Indoors, well, you can do your own experiments (but be careful). Bl0w out a candle and watch the smoke plume - it may just hang above the candle, slowly disappearing (the particles are still there - but dispersed). If I do this in my home, I can see smokey particles at about 5 feet off the ground linger for a long time (because the draft in my house is near the floor and it takes a while for the smoke to go to ground. If there were CoVid in my house, it would do the same thing (hang out right where my nose is).

It's estimated that one is 1000X more likely to get CoVid indoors. A 6 minute conversation with an infected person (with neither wearing masks) can easily result in the uninfected person getting CoVid. Sitting next to someone on an airplane for 6 minutes can result in tranmission. This is with "normal" conversational distances.

With masks, we can have a 50-60 minute conversation and be unlikely to get CoVid. At 6 feet away, our chances of remaining healthy go up even further. If outdoors, even further. If it's breezy or humid, even better.

Dry indoor air - well, those CoVid-containing aerosol droplets can remain aloft for as long as a day - maybe longer. If 20 people were breathing out CoVid in, say, a large classroom, people might get CoVid from that space for the next 24 hours. A/C experts say that in older buildings (most buildings), the volume of air that turns over is about 10-25% of what it needs to be to prevent CoVid.
 
<modsnip>

I think the economic ramifications are clear. It’s not just one group of people who are suffering from economic hardship. We are all affected (some more than others, as we know). It’s not like those who respect this virus like being locked down and broke. We are all feeling the effects and most certainly realize the economic impacts.

The point that I think that is missed here, is that the whole country does not have to be locked down if the virus is in a managed state. If transmission is controlled, then people CAN go about their daily lives, and when small fires ignite, they can immediately be mitigated. But we are not in a position for that to happen when people keep carelessly and willfully go spreading it around.

The whole idea is to collectively do all we can so that transmission is low in our communities, so we can all go about our lives. We ALL want this. But when community circulation is rampant, then the ripple effects are endless: economic impacts, kids and school, jobs, lockdowns are implemented, etc. All it takes is looking at other countries who have been successful with this to see what it could be like, if we were to take a collectively responsible and unified stance. This has also been demonstrated wrt to other epidemics. With blatant disregard, we can not even be in a situation to implement control measures which normally are effective tools, such as contact tracing. So, those who go around spreading disease really are just ruining it for everyone else who is trying to be responsible, proactive, etc. and all it does is slow down overall progress, economic and more, for everyone.
 
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10ofRods said:
The "looming crisis" in the economy won't cease to be a threat until CoVid is not a threat.
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Indeed. It is mind boggling and oxymoronic imo how the very entity which is holding us back (the virus) is being willfully (and selfishly) perpetuated. You would think people would want to nip it in the bud to the best of our abilities, and do all we can respectfully, together, in order to minimize the economic and other impacts. Instead, the monster just keeps being fed.
 
MrX said:
I was going to post something, yesterday, on this topic. When we were discussing the U.K. I had an epiphany. I'm in my late 50's and have zero fear of the virus. I have friends as old, or older, who feel the same way. We are the ones that were in restaurants the minute they re-opened. We are the ones that refer to masks as "Costco Cards," because we need them to get through the door. If we are living like this, it strikes me as a total impossibility to get young people to comply with restrictions much longer than they already have. I think the world is in trouble if the best we can offer is "they need to be concerned about grandma." I wonder what hospitalization rates would look like if we added new age restrictions to things. For example, concerts at many places were "21 and over." What if they were now "21 through 64"?
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Most people I have spoken with who are in their 80's really don't worry about Covid. Their families are more concerned.
 
MrX said:
I think the world is in trouble if the best we can offer is "they need to be concerned about grandma." I wonder what hospitalization rates would look like if we added new age restrictions to things. For example, concerts at many places were "21 and over." What if they were now "21 through 64"?
Click to expand...

I agree that 'concern about grandma' may not be an adequate rationale for young people. However, IMO, most people are concerned about getting the virus themselves. Even if they don't die, they can be mighty sick, scare the heck out of their friends and family (who will have to go into quarantine for a time), lose time at work, spread it to other people they care about, potentially spend time in hospital, and potentially have long term side affects like fatigue.

However, I think the unassailable rational for restrictions is to keep hospitals and the heathcare system functioning. We saw in places where the virus was out of control, like NY city, that hospitals couldn't function, people were dying from other problems like car accidents, drug overdoses and heart attacks. Elective surgeries are cancelled, people are failing to get diagnosed for diseases like cancer, that could be fatal to them later.

I think the solution is for people who want to mingle and not social distance to wear some sort of bright marker, so everyone else can stay away from them if they choose. For eg, refuse to meet with them in person at the bank, insurance company, at work, etc, and transact all business with them via Zoom. They can be refused entry to grocery stores and other places that offer essential services, and attend special classes where there are no teachers.
 
Students told to isolate after 124 test positive

A major outbreak of Covid-19 at Glasgow University has led to 124 students testing positive.

The university said the actual number of infected students was "likely to be higher", and added that 600 people were self-isolating.

Details of the outbreak emerged after Scotland's national clinical director, Prof Jason Leitch, urged students to stick to the rules.

The clusters are centred on two halls of residence in the city.

The university said they involved the Murano Street and Cairncross residences, and were largely due to social activity at the start of Freshers Week, from 12-14 September.
 
margarita25 said:
Indeed. It is mind boggling and oxymoronic imo how the very entity which is holding us back (the virus) is being willfully (and selfishly) perpetuated. You would think people would want to nip it in the bud to the best of our abilities, and do all we can respectfully, together, in order to minimize the economic and other impacts. Instead, the monster just keeps being fed.
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What actually happens is that the economy takes a pretty big hit, then it is rebuilt. (More so than minimising economic damage.)

Our economy has taken a big hit. We are feeling in more control of the virus now (fingers crossed) so now different govt programs are starting - the ones that will help to rebuild the economy.

Just this morning on our news we have the federal treasurer speaking about new protections for small/medium businesses who owe less than $1,000,000 ... measures being taken to pull them through. (I won't go into the details, they are pretty extensive.)

He is also speaking of changing govt payments to businesses ... now they will move from paying you to keep your employees, to incentives to take on more employees and regrow.

Because yes, first we must get the virus into a manageable place, then we must get the economy going again (not that it ever completely failed, because people must still eat, and use electricity and water, and have their garbage picked up, etc. etc).

IMO
 
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SouthAussie said:
6 months in hospital and 77 days in intensive care, due to covid :eek:


One of Australia's longest-hospitalised coronavirus patients has been discharged from the COVID-19 ward at the Gold Coast University Hospital, where he spent 77 days in intensive care.

Richard Misior was admitted to hospital in March after he contracted coronavirus on board the Ruby Princess cruise ship.

Despite initially showing only mild symptoms, the 81-year-old went on to spend six months in hospital and at one stage was placed in an induced coma.
The virus left Mr Misior paralysed and unable to walk, talk or move.

"Suddenly it turned rather bad. They put me in ICU and of course I lost memories from then," Mr Misior said.
After waking from his coma, Mr Misior struggled to move or communicate due to muscle loss.
"It was terrible," he said.
"People [would] come and talk to me and I can't talk, I can't write.

"It was a hard slog and [there were] lots of difficult periods in between, but things are going well now."

Live: 'We mustn't drop our game': Chief nurse says UK a reminder to stay vigilant as COVID-19 restrictions ease
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and he wants to live dammit!
we need to take care of our seniors!
 
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beatrixpotter said:
Sadly I have noticed this. Though the child of a friend of a friend died from COVID and she was white. She died within just a few hours of showing any signs of serious illness. She looked like she had a mild cold then suddenly two days later struggled to breath. They rushed her to the ER and she was dead within the hour. It's horrifying.
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so sad
sending you hugs
 
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