Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #81

[nhmemorymaker]

I remember reading this very sad post earlier. It is tragic that she had to endure that. I remember the letter because my 89 yr old mother is on lock down in her senior living complex.

I actually got kicked out of her home there on March 12th, because it was going on lockdown. She has not had any visitors yet, since that day because they are not allowing anyone in.

Your letter is tragic. But I don't see how that translates to President Trump slapping them in the face. IMO, he has a responsibility to keep the citizens informed as to his current condition.

Driving past the crowd and waving and sending them hundreds of pizzas does just that. It does more than just having a doctor in a lab coat speaking to the press, which usually just brings forth more questions and concerns.

I thought Trumps drive by was encouraging and inspiring. I know a lot of people who feel the same way. I don't personally know anyone who felt it was a slap to anyone's face. It certainly was not meant to be a slap in any way.

It is a true tragedy that so many people have had to endure this horrible virus on their own in the hospitals, in order to prevent it spreading further. It is horrid to imagine how lonely that must be.

My mom assures me she is not lonely and she understands why she is on lockdown, but I know it pains her that she has not seen her great grandchildren since Christmas. She has even wondered out loud if she will ever see them again...

This pandemic and lockdown and ensuing financial crisis, and growing death toll is hard to fathom. We are all on edge and things are volatile. I do think we should try to see things in a balanced and objective way, whenever possible. And maybe we can learn to see things from each other's perspectives, to try and unify if at all possible...

I actually had no problem with the actual drive around. He can. And both he and his fans do love it.

My comments and repost of friend's letter was because I DO, however, believe it is a slap in the face to many.
And when I found out the secret service people have to now spend two weeks in quarantine, ( dumbly, I simply had not thought about that, at first, with the drive around).... and felt bad for them.

 

[Trino]

“Zverev is up to date on his tests, which have all been negative. His last test was on September 29, with results received on September 30. Today he received a reminder for his next test, to be carried out within 5 days of the previous results. He did not consult the tournament doctors before his match."
He tested on the 29th, results on the 30th and he was to test again WITHIN 5 days.
Which would have before the match?
It appears he was not ignorant of Covid since both his parents has tested positive very recently. He deliberately played sick.
JMO

Why would he do this, especially if he did not feel well? Money?

If I was behind a glass partition, and wearing full PPE, and we all wore masks, and the air was circulating, and I was being paid well to protect them, then I would.

Wrong post? This is not about Trump. It's about a tennis player.

 

[katydid23]

From a medical stand this was not a good decision. The leader of the world has a communicable disease, possibly fatal. He is hospitalized, being monitore 24/7 heart/oxygen. How is monitoring happening inside a vehicle?

I don't see any reason that he would have to be monitored every minute of the day.

When I had an acute asthma attack, and taken to hospital by ambulance, kept there for 6 days---I was not on the monitor every minute of the day.

The nurses came in and took my BP and took my oxygen level and my heart readings. But I ate meals, took walks, went to the restroom, etc etc, without any monitors.

 

[musicaljoke]

PS---the 'whole world' does not think we are all crazy here. I think the world is just as divided as the country is. Half the nation thinks he was irresponsible and selfish and the other half applauds him and thinks it was fantastic for him to think of his supporters like that.

I imagine the world feels similarly, half outraged, half inspired by him. JMO

If you Google the world press articles about it this morning, they are strongly condemning the drive by, calling it "joy ride", "political theatre", "stunt", etc.


Trump criticised over car ride with Covid-19


England ‘This is insanity’: Walter Reed physician among critics of Donald Trump drive-by visit

Australia https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...-photo-opp-in-washington-20201005-p5622b.html

India Life ‘Irresponsibility is astounding’: Covid-positive Trump faces criticism for 'joyride' - New India Life

Jerusalem Post Trump breaks quarantine at Walter Reed for 'political stunt'

China Chinese experts doubt rosy report on Trump’s health after his brief ride-by amid COVID treatment - Global Times

 

[katydid23]

I actually had no problem with the actual drive around. He can. And both he and his fans do love it.

My comments and repost of friend's letter was because I DO, however, believe it is a slap in the face to many.
And when I found out the secret service people have to now spend two weeks in quarantine, ( dumbly, I simply had not thought about that, at first, with the drive around).... and felt bad for them.

Is there an article that says they have to go into quarantine now? Because these agents are with the POTUS 24/7 --they cannot all go into Q every time they have a shift with him.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Thank you for the clarification. I apologise if I made it appear that I did not understand the terminology. I was trying to be more specific about 'who' was being disrespected and by whom.

The OP @JerseyGirl stated clearly and specifically MOO

1) Who was being disrespected ---"It was wrong and a slap in the face to the millions of families that have loved ones in hospitals right now fighting the disease."
2) By whom --- the discussion is surrounding the president and his actions. Critical thinking = whom initiated the actions= the president

MOO

HTH.

ETA: Link for MOO =

It was wrong because no patient should be allowed to leave a hospital without being signed out or discharged.

It was wrong and a slap in the face to the millions of families that have loved ones in hospitals right now fighting the disease. I'm sorry, but there is no way to justify Trump's joyride trip around the block while being a patient in the hospital.

 

[katydid23]

duplicate

 

[Trino]

I doubt they will have to quarantine.

Walter Reed doctor said they would.
Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential ‘drive-by’ just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die. For political theater,” Dr. James Phillips, an attending physician at Walter Reed and doctor of emergency medicine at George Washington University, said via Twitter on Sunday.

 

[branmuffin]

As I understand it, doctors are responsible first to their patients, so I don't know that they should offer "unvarnished information" to the public or anyone else. If a patient has a terminal illness and asks the doctor not to share that information, the doctor doesn't share.

That said, it's probably better to just say "no comment," than to say something that needs to be walked back.

I would agree under normal circumstances but we're talking about the President of the United States and doctors treating him have a civic duty as well as a doctor's duty to advise the American public of his health status rather than giving a Disneyesque spin to the facts.

 

[Simply Southern]

I was reading this Washington Post article about Dr Sean Copley, Physician to the President. I will paraphrase a few things, for those who can't read it.

Navy Commander Sean Copley has told some co-workers that he has felt under great personal stress as White House physician. The pressures of the job were making him feel weighted down.
Mentioned are the president over-riding advice of his own health officials, not wearing a mask, holding public events. (It is not clear if those are the pressures.)

One person who worked with Dr Copley says that the statements he gives are not statements that a medical doctor gives. (Dr Copley does have a good history as a medical doctor ... as well as being awarded honors as an outstanding resident).

Former colleagues say he is a nice guy, but has little management experience. And as a Navy Officer he cannot defy an order given by the Commander in Chief.
Dr Copley has been in the top White House physician position since 2018, having joined the White House medical unit in December 2016.


My point in mentioning all of this is that it could be that Dr Copley makes treatment recommendations and perhaps the president wants to try things that have not been recommended by Dr Copley. Or is willing to take medication/personal health risks that he may be privately advised against.
I do personally agree that the president's treatments seem to be based on at least a moderate case of covid, from what I understand anyway.
And I heard on TV News tonight that dextamethazone is usually only used for severe or critical cases of covid.

White House physician Sean Conley draws scrutiny for rosy assessments of Trump’s health

For me....its hard to validate the comments made by "coworkers" that are unidentified. I've experienced this in the work place, but we called it gossip and it can get ya fired for sure. I see this as an HR nightmare.

Moo.....

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Contact tracing is one of the most fractured activities in the US. I just cannot accept the lax attitude that it cannot be done. I feel New Jersey is one of the best we have, so I really hope that Murphy is heard. When I tried to "sign up and get trained" in Florida ???? all I got was laughter. And mention of one or two counties that was trying to do it, and failing.


New Jersey governor calls for federal cooperation on contact tracing following a Trump fundraiser event
New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy is calling for federal cooperation as authorities continue to contact trace after President Trump’s big-dollar fundraiser at his New Jersey golf club Thursday night despite the President and staff knowing he had been exposed to coronavirus.

“We're taking the lead. We got on it immediately, both at the state level and the local level. But, you know, we need cooperation from the feds,” he told CNN Monday. “Remember, the staff all live in New Jersey even though the attendees were from around the country.”
“We need everybody to punch at their weight here,” he added.

The President announced he and first lady Melania Trump tested positive for coronavirus roughly eight hours after leaving the fundraiser, when he was back at the White House.

Murphy also emphasized the need for everyone at the Trump event to self-quarantine.

“Please, god, if you know you're exposed to someone who is Covid-positive, you need to quarantine,” he said. “I don't want to be the grinch here but that’s the way we have got to deal with this virus.”
“This borders on reckless in terms of exposing people not just in New Jersey, but looks like from folks around the country, who have now scattered by the way,” he added.

Live updates: Donald Trump's Covid-19 diagnosis and reactions

 

[JerseyGirl]

Dr. James Phillips, an attending physician at Walter Reed, tweeted "Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential 'drive-by' just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity," he added.

Trump criticized by medical experts after leaving hospital to drive by supporters

First lady Melania Trump, who also has Covid-19, would not leave isolation in the White House residence to visit her husband at the hospital.

"She has Covid," the official said. "That would expose the agents who would drive her there and the medical staff who would walk her up to him."

 

[Trino]

An episode on Saturday and a car ride on Sunday...

The disclosures about Trump’s oxygen levels and steroid treatment suggested the president is enduring more than a mild case of COVID-19.

Blood oxygen saturation is a key health marker for COVID-19 patients. A normal reading is between 95 and 100. Conley said the president had a “high fever” and a blood oxygen level below 94% on Friday and during “another episode” on Saturday.
Trump Takes a Brief Car Ride, Ignoring Own COVID-19 Infection

 

[Trino]

Is there an article that says they have to go into quarantine now? Because these agents are with the POTUS 24/7 --they cannot all go into Q every time they have a shift with him.

Dr. James Phillips, an attending physician at Walter Reed, tweeted "Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential 'drive-by' just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity," he added.

Phillips has been an attending physician for almost three years at Walter Reed medical center and is also a board certified emergency medicine physician and assistant professor at George Washington University Hospital in Washington, D.C.

“That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play,” Phillips tweeted.

Walter Reed attending physician slams Trump motorcade photo op: "The irresponsibility is astounding"

 

[JerseyGirl]

White House Struggles To Explain, Contain Its Own Spiraling COVID-19 Crisis

White House chief of staff Mark Meadows said that a decision on whether to discharge Trump will be made after a late-morning meeting with doctors Monday.

“That determination has not been made yet,” Meadows said when asked whether Trump would be discharged Monday. “The doctors will actually have an evaluation sometime late morning. We’re still optimistic based on his unbelievable progress … that he will be released, but that decision won’t be made until later today.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2020/10/05/trump-biden-live-updates/

 

[Simply Southern]

Just jumping off the comment of Prednisone and the energy it spurs. Prednisone makes me feel like wonder woman-just wish there was something legal and with no side effects that I could take ongoing with that effect. Gives me more energy than I had at 20! Even being a nurse and knowing better -I always make use of that increased energy for at least a couple days whenever I'm on a Prednisone pack.

So happy I'm not the only one to "enjoy" the benefits of Prednisone. First time I had pneumonia, so sick, two hours after my first dose I was mopping all my floors and cleaning the house. DH came home from work amazed, and said...I thought you were sick, my reply, I feel great!!
Moo...

 

[CSIDreamer]

Why would he do this, especially if he did not feel well? Money?


Wrong post? This is not about Trump. It's about a tennis player.

Guess we’ll find out. They are now quarantined. Would you get into a vehicle with a person who you know has the virus?

"That should never have happened," one current Secret Service agent who works on the presidential and first family detail said after Trump's drive-by, adding that those agents who went along for the ride would now be required to quarantine.
Inside Trump's Walter Reed parade - CNNPolitics

If I was behind a glass partition, and wearing full PPE, and we all wore masks, and the air was circulating, and I was being paid well to protect them, then I would.

Here are quotes from back arrows. This thread is really moving. Jmo

 

[branmuffin]

It IS a slap-in-the-face to ALL who have to die alone, or live in total isolation if they get this disease. It is a slap in the face to all their loved ones too.

My guess is that you have not had close contact with the extremely sad and lonely elders that are isolated in the final days of their lives, because they can be with NOBODY.

This is what one of my good friends wrote, when her mother died from covid....

Moments of pain and indecision.
It should not have been a surprise to us that my mother would not survive coronavirus. But the reality of that does not hit home until it is time to make decisions about medical care that you know will ultimately lead to your mother’s death. We went from "no code and no intubation” to “comfort care”, then stopping the high flow oxygen and downgrading to just oxygen by nasal cannula. Next, a morphine drip to make her less fearful and pain free while she is passing. These are all decisions.
Every day a new decision. It is exhausting. And then you ask yourself, who am I to decide when my mother should die? How much time should I have given the medical team to get her better. Of course, they think it is hopeless. After all, she will be 89 in 2 months. But they don’t know how tough she is. What a fighter she is. After all she lived through WWII when the allies carpet bombed her home in Frankfurt ,Germany, and through many hardships as an adult. So maybe she can last long enough for her immune system to kill this virus.
But then she is on the phone, crying, “they tied down my arms, my throat is so dry, it’s impossible to rest with the oxygen in my nose forcing air in.” Then she calls and says there are constant blood tests and restarting IV’s that have infiltrated and she has no veins. I am too weak to endure it. I call the doctors and ask what are her chances of beating this virus and they say, as expected, none. So I ask why are we torturing this poor soul and they say, it is my choice. What would I have them do. First, I say, untie her hands! Then she will pull out her IVs and maybe her oxygen tubing, they say. I say, if she will die anyway, then why does that matter? So the tubes came out and the ties were taken off. She is better. Things are calmer and she is resting.
The next day the high flow oxygen mask was removed. We thought that would be the end. The family members had steeled themselves for the end. But she rallied once again. Since she seemed stable, there was a plan put into place to move her to a nearby hospice facility. She would be more comfortable there and get more personalized care. It sounded like a good plan. We were not allowed to see her anywhere, so it was all about decisions that were best for her.
Finally after a huge stack of paperwork was filled out, she was transferred by ambulance to the hospice facility. Her morphine drip kept her drowsy and comfortable. About 3 hours after her transfer, she stopped breathing and peacefully slipped away. I didn’t get the message until the next morning.
I was suddenly dazed and numb. I knew it was going to be soon, but still a shock. My mother was gone. My thorny, needy, and sometimes manipulative mother was gone. But still she was my mother. I had cared for her for years. I paid her bills, cleaned her house, bought her clothes, took her to appointments and found ways to entertain her. There were happy times, but less and less over the last few years. She blamed me for putting her into a nursing home. This was more or less true, but I never abandoned her. It was a decision forced on me. It was apparent to everyone, that she could not live alone.
She died on August 29, 2020 at 9:30pm. I will miss her and I will always worry that I did not give her a fighting chance against the virus, but instead took the cowards way out for her and me, by making the decision to withdraw care.
Those are the hard choices which we must make during this era of the coronavirus.

I don't cry much but this made me cry. Terrible decisions aren't made by terrible people, they are made by people who are strong enough to bear the load of responsibility, love, selflessness and guilt. Don't focus on the guilt.

 

[katydid23]

The OP @JerseyGirl stated clearly and specifically MOO

1) Who was being disrespected ---"It was wrong and a slap in the face to the millions of families that have loved ones in hospitals right now fighting the disease."
2) By whom --- the discussion is surrounding the president and his actions. Critical thinking = whom initiated the actions= the president

MOO

HTH.

ETA: Link for MOO =

I happen to disagree.

There is no reason for any of those families to feel disrespected. His quick trip to wave at his supporters so they could see that he was feeling stronger and to thank them for their support. And to assure the country that he was on the mend.

It was not a slap in anyone's face. In my opinion.

 

[FrostOwl]

These knights in Visby on the island of Gotland are still spreading the message about how to avoid spreading the corona:
* Wash your hands
* Keep distance
* Stay at home when sick
Riddare med uppdrag att minska smittspridningen på Gotland