Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #52

[Mysticeilis]

I only see the “Thule Rack” on top of the Black Chevy Suburban mentioned twice in the AW. It’s on page 22. Once on 5/24/2019 at 1:36 PM as it arrived at 80 Mountain Springs (MT claims FD was driving it) and then at 4:03 PM that day as surveillance camera sees it leave 80 Mountain Springs. Are we supposed to assume the rack was always on that car, just not mentioned? Could remains be in that carrier?

 

[Jmoose]

I think one grave at the gun club (the one they stumbled upon) was for KM’s wife.

And I think that there was another one on there that they did not find for Jennifer.

Why else would KM’s phone have pinged there right after MT and FD were arrested on May 31st?

They need to search the gun club again.

Also, they should offer KM immunity in exchange for the body.

just give the poor family some closure.

I’m afraid I really, really disagree with this-if he is heavily involved enough to know where her remains are, he is too heavily involved to walk free.

 

[Morgan10028]

As per dismemberment; discussed many threads back, if the body was in the back of the Tacoma bed, under a tarp, under the bike (photo from warrant is grainy but there was an enhanced image in the early threads where something lumpy could be seen under the bike wheel), then rigor mortis could have been really setting in by the arrival back at 80MS (heat from black plastic +sun would have really sped it up). Rigor mortis could have prompted need for dismemberment.
I believe that if he drove the 1.5 hrs back to Farmington with the body in the front seat, there would have been far more blood on the front seat than they found. It would have been immediately obvious to the eye and taken more than paper towels to remove. If that much blood had been spilled in the Welles garage, such an injured body lying on a porous surface for 1.5 hours much more would have seeped out (also other fluid drainage, apologies for the graphics). Remember the weathertec liner, too, that must have been in the bed of the Tacoma, so I am thinking that’s where her body was on the trip but either way by the time he and Michi had their lunch and prepped for phase 2, rigor mortis could have compounded their task.

Where might he have done this gruesome act away from watchful eyes?
MT said FD went into the basement at 80MS while she was cleaning windows upstairs. Any of the luxury bathrooms in the unoccupied 80MS
(8 to choose from, 5 with full baths and walk-in showers) lined with tarps or ponchos could have been an obvious out-of-the-way that could have required the Clorox and cleaning supplies MT was summoned for. No neighbors windows for miles to see.

I had early on considered disposal in the remote area around Silver Spring Rd. @afitzy clocked the RT from Lapham pullout at 38 minutes I believe so he could have been there and back in time to get on the Merritt at 11:07.
FD was caught crossing the state line back there shortly after his release from the first arrest in June 2019. It’s completely remote, would not be associated with FD, and his excuse that Waze directed him there to avoid traffic is extremely hard to believe, some segments are only 1 lane, it’s unpaved in parts, and there are multiple quicker ways to cut up to 84 from NC. Moreover much of the land is owned by the water company, so it’s not somewhere people would stumble over something hiking, bikers use it and people looking for remote place to do illicit things. There are some houses back there but long stretches that are remote and unoccupied.
I had pretty much dissuaded myself that she’s back there though, based on the facts presented and swayed by Colangelo’s hinting that “FD owned a lot of land around Farmington” and repeated digging and searches up there, with virtually no activity in FFC after the first few weeks of the case more than a year and a half ago. (Of course they could have snuck in to do a search along SS Rd without catching attention if they were discreet, it’s that off the beaten path.) I still wonder what FD was doing back there so soon after his release though.

Thanks for the opportunity to dredge up some of these thoughts. While we wait for movement (3 hours of KM interview with LE- what’s the juicy details in there that has MT abandoning her IG PR campaign and JS filing blanks in desperation?) it’s always good to revisit and ruminate.

MOO.

Great post! I've been thinking a lot lately about what you mentioned above so to see it in text got the wheels spinning.

Was Silver Spring Rd confirmed as the spot FD crossed the state line? NOT questioning it, I just don't think I've ever seen the spot identified before. And when @Tink provided the map (thank you!) I was surprised that would be where he crossed over if traveling from 4JX to 61 Sturbridge Hill (map link directly below) . If @afitzy said it, I consider it to be 110% accurate. I've traveled from CT to NY extensively in the last year and Waze has definitely woven me between the states during one trip, though rerouting away from a 'major accident' (see second quote/link further below) seems unlikely to land you near Silver Spring Rd.

Google Maps

"An attorney representing Fotis told NBC Connecticut "(Fotis) was directed by Waze to avoid a major accident and briefly veered into New York unbeknownst to him on his way to a property he owns in New Canaan." (thanks @sds)
Estranged Husband of Missing New Canaan Mother Crossed State Line Into New York: Lawyers

Just to be clear, I ask mostly because I want to go check out the area for possibilities...

 

[Morgan10028]

I only see the “Thule Rack” on top of the Black Chevy Suburban mentioned twice in the AW. It’s on page 22. Once on 5/24/2019 at 1:36 PM as it arrived at 80 Mountain Springs (MT claims FD was driving it) and then at 4:03 PM that day as surveillance camera sees it leave 80 Mountain Springs. Are we supposed to assume the rack was always on that car, just not mentioned? Could remains be in that carrier?

View attachment 280789

I remember thinking it was odd that the Thule Rack was mentioned in some places and not in others. It always seemed to be a clue to me, I just don't know where it leads. Was LE intending to say it was on and off over the course of a few days? If it had nothing to do with the case, I doubt it would be mentioned at all...

MOO

 

[Laughing]

I only see the “Thule Rack” on top of the Black Chevy Suburban mentioned twice in the AW. It’s on page 22. Once on 5/24/2019 at 1:36 PM as it arrived at 80 Mountain Springs (MT claims FD was driving it) and then at 4:03 PM that day as surveillance camera sees it leave 80 Mountain Springs. Are we supposed to assume the rack was always on that car, just not mentioned? Could remains be in that carrier?

View attachment 280789

IDK specifically which Thule ski box they had, but enough room for a human in this one, sized for a Suburban:

https://www.etrailer.com/Roof-Box/Chevrolet/Suburban/Thule/TH613.html

from the description,

Internal: 82-3/4" long x 23-1/2" wide x 10-1/2" tall

Frightening.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Diddian]

I think FD likely had longer than originally thought with JFD's body after leaving 69 Welles Lane that morning.

I strongly suspect that FD was not the person driving the Toyota Tacoma from New Canaan to 80 MS Rd after the abduction/murder and that he was instead driving his own Suburban, with JFD's body aboard. I also suspect that gave him hours with JFD's body without detection of his whereabouts and raises the possibility that MT may at some point have joined him before the two of them showed up together in separate vehicles at 80 MS Rd at 1:36 pm. Why?

Had FD been the person who had transferred all the evidence from JFD's Suburban to the Toyota Tacoma, then FD would have remembered to remove the pail with hoodie so it would have been discarded with the rest of the evidence during the Albany Ave run. The fact that the pail with hoodie was not thrown away with the rest of the stuff in the Albany Ave run, but was instead left in the toolbox (only to be found there after Memorial Day by PG, who then transferred it to the laundry room at 4JC) likely indicates someone else put it there. When FD and MT emptied the Toyota after they arrived at 80 MS Rd and before they made their Albany Ave evidence-dumping run, they emptied what they saw and so missed the items put in the toolbox because they didn't know they were there. PG found the pail with hoodie in the toolbox of his Toyota when he went back to work after Memorial Day and was getting some tools for the day and, assuming the pail and hoodie belonged to FD, transferred those items into 4JC and we later see FD discarding those items at the place where he had PG's Toyota detailed.

By the way, this pail with hoodie discovered in the Toyota AFTER the Albany Ave run sort of destroys NP's suggestion that the bags of evidence FD and MT got rid of were dumped at 4JC to implicate FD. How would these supposed planters of evidence at 4JC have also managed to plant evidence (which FD subsequently dumps) into the toolbox of an employee's pickup truck that wasn't at 4JC that afternoon and that was not at any other FD-associated location after that afternoon until after Memorial Day? I bet FD flipped his lid when he discovered the pail with hoodie in his laundry room at 4JC the day after Memorial Day. I wonder if he called KM to ask where the pail that suddenly appeared had been stowed such that they missed it for the Albany Ave evidence dumping run.

IMO these conspirators played games with vehicles just like they played games with cellphones. So, IMO FD drove PG's Toyota Tacoma to New Canaan, but drove his own Suburban back and KM drove FD's Suburban to New Canaan, but he drove the Toyota Tacoma back.

I suspect KM gained access to FD's Suburban the night before, during that strange rendezvous in the middle of FD's dinner party. Then, the morning of 5/24 KM drove FD's Suburban to a prearranged meeting spot in New Canaan and waited until FD showed up.

I think after leaving JFD's home with her body in her own Suburban, FD met up with KM at FD's Suburban and transferred JFD's body to it (possibly into the Thule rack atop the vehicle). FD then took the wheel of his own Suburban and KM took the wheel of JFD's Suburban and drove it to the Toyota (where in his panic or his determination to leave as few prints as possible, KM neglected to take that Suburban out of "Reverse" and put it in "Park" and neglected to take the keys out of the ignition), then KM transferred all remaining evidence (the garbage bags full of cleanup items, the plastic pail with blue hoodie, the Weathertech liner from JFD's cargo area, and the bicycle) to the Toyota and drove off to arrive at 12:22 pm at 80 MS Rd where (IMO) MT had been kind enough to leave his cellphone for him at that location or at his vehicle somewhere nearby.

FD in his Suburban and MT in the Jeep later arrive in tandem at 1:36 pm at 80 MS Rd and FD's phone then activates. IIRC, MT accounts for her time from when her phone alarm rings to wake her up until around 11:30 and I assume LE checked the places she claims to have been after she left 4JC at around 9:30 to 11:30. But, IIRC, her story about what happens after 11:30 sounds as sketchy and shifting in key details as her eventually abandoned story about FD having been at 4JC that morning. I wonder if MT's phone had been deactivated for the 2 hours prior to 1:36 pm.

 

[Jmoose]

I think FD likely had longer than originally thought with JFD's body after leaving 69 Welles Lane that morning.

I strongly suspect that FD was not the person driving the Toyota Tacoma from New Canaan to 80 MS Rd after the abduction/murder and that he was instead driving his own Suburban, with JFD's body aboard. I also suspect that gave him hours with JFD's body without detection of his whereabouts and raises the possibility that MT may at some point have joined him before the two of them showed up together in separate vehicles at 80 MS Rd at 1:36 pm. Why?

Had FD been the person who had transferred all the evidence from JFD's Suburban to the Toyota Tacoma, then FD would have remembered to remove the pail with hoodie so it would have been discarded with the rest of the evidence during the Albany Ave run. The fact that the pail with hoodie was not thrown away with the rest of the stuff in the Albany Ave run, but was instead left in the toolbox (only to be found there after Memorial Day by PG, who then transferred it to the laundry room at 4JC) likely indicates someone else put it there. When FD and MT emptied the Toyota after they arrived at 80 MS Rd and before they made their Albany Ave evidence-dumping run, they emptied what they saw and so missed the items put in the toolbox because they didn't know they were there. PG found the pail with hoodie in the toolbox of his Toyota when he went back to work after Memorial Day and was getting some tools for the day and, assuming the pail and hoodie belonged to FD, transferred those items into 4JC and we later see FD discarding those items at the place where he had PG's Toyota detailed.

By the way, this pail with hoodie discovered in the Toyota AFTER the Albany Ave run sort of destroys NP's suggestion that the bags of evidence FD and MT got rid of were dumped at 4JC to implicate FD. How would these supposed planters of evidence at 4JC have also managed to plant evidence (which FD subsequently dumps) into the toolbox of an employee's pickup truck that wasn't at 4JC that afternoon and that was not at any other FD-associated location after that afternoon until after Memorial Day? I bet FD flipped his lid when he discovered the pail with hoodie in his laundry room at 4JC the day after Memorial Day. I wonder if he called KM to ask where the pail that suddenly appeared had been stowed such that they missed it for the Albany Ave evidence dumping run.

IMO these conspirators played games with vehicles just like they played games with cellphones. So, IMO FD drove PG's Toyota Tacoma to New Canaan, but drove his own Suburban back and KM drove FD's Suburban to New Canaan, but he drove the Toyota Tacoma back.

I suspect KM gained access to FD's Suburban the night before, during that strange rendezvous in the middle of FD's dinner party. Then, the morning of 5/24 KM drove FD's Suburban to a prearranged meeting spot in New Canaan and waited until FD showed up.

I think after leaving JFD's home with her body in her own Suburban, FD met up with KM at FD's Suburban and transferred JFD's body to it (possibly into the Thule rack atop the vehicle). FD then took the wheel of his own Suburban and KM took the wheel of JFD's Suburban and drove it to the Toyota (where in his panic or his determination to leave as few prints as possible, KM neglected to take that Suburban out of "Reverse" and put it in "Park" and neglected to take the keys out of the ignition), then KM transferred all remaining evidence (the garbage bags full of cleanup items, the plastic pail with blue hoodie, the Weathertech liner from JFD's cargo area, and the bicycle) to the Toyota and drove off to arrive at 12:22 pm at 80 MS Rd where (IMO) MT had been kind enough to leave his cellphone for him at that location or at his vehicle somewhere nearby.

FD in his Suburban and MT in the Jeep later arrive in tandem at 1:36 pm at 80 MS Rd and FD's phone then activates. IIRC, MT accounts for her time from when her phone alarm rings to wake her up until around 11:30 and I assume LE checked the places she claims to have been after she left 4JC at around 9:30 to 11:30. But, IIRC, her story about what happens after 11:30 sounds as sketchy and shifting in key details as her eventually abandoned story about FD having been at 4JC that morning. I wonder if MT's phone had been deactivated for the 2 hours prior to 1:36 pm.

Ooh-I do like this-and it has they added aspect of no possibility for fD to be recognized if anyone saw the person with the Tacoma at Waveny Park-they’d possibly only see KM struggling with stuff moving between the two cars and he is very undistinguished-looking. I really don’t think anyone would give him a second look, like they might give fD. This is very smart, I think. Like you, I don’t think fD was in New Canaan alone

 

[Diddian]

Ooh-I do like this-and it has they added aspect of no possibility for fD to be recognized if anyone saw the person with the Tacoma at Waveny Park-they’d possibly only see KM struggling with stuff moving between the two cars and he is very undistinguished-looking. I really don’t think anyone would give him a second look, like they might give fD. This is very smart, I think. Like you, I don’t think fD was in New Canaan alone

My guess is that, if this occurred as I described, the transfer of the body did not have to occur in a private location. It was likely wrapped up in plastic and secured in multiple locations along its length with long zip ties that could be used as carrying handles. It probably looked like a long piece of rolled up carpet or padding.

The two Suburbans could be pulled into a large parking lot (like at a high school or middle school or a medium to large medical center or multifamily housing center) and that long wrapped package transferred from one vehicle to the other. The fact that both are Suburbans and black would lend toward observers thinking they are two vehicles from the same company. I don't think they'd attract much attention.

I see contractors and package delivery vans rendezvousing with like vehicles all the time in the local elementary school lot. During the recent holidays, package delivery services were meeting there to coordinate daily in the early morning and late evening.

ETA: I do think FD would choose a parking lot with minimal to no surveillance over one that had obvious surveillance. And likely one immediately off a main road, for quick arrival and departure.

 

[MsJosie]

My guess is that, if this occurred as I described, the transfer of the body did not have to occur in a private location. It was likely wrapped up in plastic and secured in multiple locations along its length with long zip ties that could be used as carrying handles. It probably looked like a long piece of rolled up carpet or padding.

The two Suburbans could be pulled into a large parking lot (like at a high school or middle school or a medium to large medical center or multifamily housing center) and that long wrapped package transferred from one vehicle to the other. The fact that both are Suburbans and black would lend toward observers thinking they are two vehicles from the same company. I don't think they'd attract much attention.

I see contractors and package delivery vans rendezvousing with like vehicles all the time in the local elementary school lot. During the recent holidays, package delivery services were meeting there to coordinate daily in the early morning and late evening.

ETA: I do think FD would choose a parking lot with minimal to no surveillance over one that had obvious surveillance. And likely one immediately off a main road, for quick arrival and departure.

Very good, I can see this happening.......now where is Jennifer?
(Hope LE is reading here!)

 

[Diddian]

Very good, I can see this happening.......now where is Jennifer?
(Hope LE is reading here!)

It is so frustrating to read over and over through all the notes and analysis I have and others have, to think about this while going to sleep and in the shower and throughout the day, to discover the relevance of some tiny thing that clarifies something else (i.e. IMO, the overlooked pail and hoodie likely mean that KM put them there, so he was likely driving the Toyota back and FD was driving something else) and yet STILL not have contributed anything that will lead to an answer to THAT question.

Sadly, the possibilities seem as many as ever, even while LE has exhausted some.

I hope KM - or even better, a light bulb going bright over someone else's head - changes that, but in the meantime I'm glad LE, the family, and many of us here are still thinking about it.

 

[Boxer]

Great post! I've been thinking a lot lately about what you mentioned above so to see it in text got the wheels spinning.

Was Silver Spring Rd confirmed as the spot FD crossed the state line? NOT questioning it, I just don't think I've ever seen the spot identified before. And when @Tink provided the map (thank you!) I was surprised that would be where he crossed over if traveling from 4JX to 61 Sturbridge Hill (map link directly below) . If @afitzy said it, I consider it to be 110% accurate. I've traveled from CT to NY extensively in the last year and Waze has definitely woven me between the states during one trip, though rerouting away from a 'major accident' (see second quote/link further below) seems unlikely to land you near Silver Spring Rd.

Google Maps

"An attorney representing Fotis told NBC Connecticut "(Fotis) was directed by Waze to avoid a major accident and briefly veered into New York unbeknownst to him on his way to a property he owns in New Canaan." (thanks @sds)
Estranged Husband of Missing New Canaan Mother Crossed State Line Into New York: Lawyers

Just to be clear, I ask mostly because I want to go check out the area for possibilities...

MOO the Waze data should have been available by subpoena at the time.

 

[sleuth66]

Great post! I've been thinking a lot lately about what you mentioned above so to see it in text got the wheels spinning.

Was Silver Spring Rd confirmed as the spot FD crossed the state line? NOT questioning it, I just don't think I've ever seen the spot identified before. And when @Tink provided the map (thank you!) I was surprised that would be where he crossed over if traveling from 4JX to 61 Sturbridge Hill (map link directly below) . If @afitzy said it, I consider it to be 110% accurate. I've traveled from CT to NY extensively in the last year and Waze has definitely woven me between the states during one trip, though rerouting away from a 'major accident' (see second quote/link further below) seems unlikely to land you near Silver Spring Rd.

Google Maps

"An attorney representing Fotis told NBC Connecticut "(Fotis) was directed by Waze to avoid a major accident and briefly veered into New York unbeknownst to him on his way to a property he owns in New Canaan." (thanks @sds)
Estranged Husband of Missing New Canaan Mother Crossed State Line Into New York: Lawyers

Just to be clear, I ask mostly because I want to go check out the area for possibilities...

The answer is "yes" but I am going to drag you through the process, since I was for a while convinced that she is back there (although I lean against it now).

When the arrest warrant came out first week of June '19, some of us started scoping local reservoirs around NC thinking he might have dumped her body down there. (There are many in the NC/Stamford/WestchesterNY corner that serve as public water supply.) We did not yet know the amount of time FD spent between Welles Lane and leaving Lapham to get on the Merritt (47 minutes or so: incl. 10 min travel time Welles to Waveny) since in June they had just been arrested for tampering based on the bloody clothes and the Albany surveillance. (All the details with the Tacoma etc came in the next warrant). So we didn't have any time constraints yet.

The article that you link to came out 6/24/2019 (somehow I remember the date 6/17/2019, maybe that was the date of FD crossing the state line. He had been released from jail on 6/11). When I saw "veered into NY unbeknownst to him" in that article, I immediately thought of Silver Spring Rd. If he was on 123, which would be the obvious detour, there's a big Welcome to NY sign (plus he would have been on 123 in NY for more than briefly before he turned onto 35 through Ridgefield to head up to 84).
Silver Spring Rd goes between Wilton and NC and for a tiny bit crosses into S. Salem near Vista NY. But WAZE would not take you there as a deviation (IMO, not a WAZE user). Silver Spring Rd is the perfect place to dump a body IMO (however I am not in the business of dumping bodies!). So I told this to another poster, but there were oodles of possibilities at that time, we had no timepoints and nothing about his sightings that day.

Then, the big arrest warrant came out with all the timepoints and the 47 minute lag at Waveny. I got a little jumpy, thinking Silver Spring Rd would fit that timeframe. Another poster went and drove it and reported back, yes, I recall 38 minutes RT.

[Note: the map shown in the post #137 above by @Tink56 ends in Wilton, where it gets back to being very residential. FD would not need to go all that way into Wilton, where there are houses and the road is paved, not a likely place. The remote isolated part is in the NY section, between Wilton Rd and East Rd. by the reservoir- the whole area around East Rd would be ideal.]
Using a residential address on the corner of Wilton Rd and Silver Spring Rd in S. Salem NY, from 200 Lapham Rd (the turnout behind Waveny where her car was found, not a residential address and public in the warrant) Google maps shows 17 minutes. So a couple more minutes and he would be at the left turn to East Rd, which crosses over Brown's reservoir. No fences around it, comes right up to the road (not sure how full it was in May 2019, sometimes water level is low next to road). Remote woods...[you all not in the area can check it out if you use Google maps street view to take yourself on a tour (Silver Spring Road, South Salem NY, section between Wilton Rd and East Rd).]

OK I know you're probably annoyed because you asked whether it was ever verified, and so far all you have is my hunch and my vouching that this is a perfect spot... So I was still kind of sitting on the Silver Spring Rd hunch and attending to other fast-emerging aspects of the case when, in September 2019 this article comes out, mentioning as an aside:
"Sources said he was on Silver Spring Road, which travels into Westchester County while connecting Wilton and New Canaan. The road is near one of the properties owned by Fotis Dulos’ real estate development company on Sturbridge Hill Road in New Canaan.
Blawie did not consider the incident a problem and it was never addressed in court."
Jennifer Dulos case: Judge warns Fotis Dulos to properly charge GPS device

OK, it's not really near one of his properties at all in terms of how these towns are laid out (about 8 miles, not on any direct route at all) and it is certainly not a route that would be used between Sturbridge and Farmington. So it's not a good explanation that it is "near one of his properties"- not so in a local sense at all (nobody in town would say that Silver Spring Rd is near Sturbridge Hill Rd).

So when I saw that in the news, I was like, oh wow, did they search there? We know that killers often go back to the scene (and KM pinged at the gun club on the night of the arrest, something is up). Even if FD did not put the body there, given that he went to this odd remote place with a large body of water and tons of woods literally off the beaten track, a week or two after his first arrest and getting out of jail, maybe he disposed of some piece of evidence there that LE hadn't found in their search.

I figured that LE would have checked it out given that FD went there with his tracker on so soon after being released. Plus I started to write it off since LE never searched in Fairfield County again (that we know of) after the first few weeks and shifted all searches since, continuing through this week to Farmington. Combined with Colangelo's response to a question of where the body is as "Fotis owned a lot of property around Farmington" I started thinking that LE must have something that is causing them to keep focusing on the Farmington area.

While the timing is feasible that he could have taken the body to Silver Spring Rd, it is tight, he would have had to have a prepared grave back there (which given the gun club, is highly possible of course) where he worked quickly and turned around right away. He would have also had to remove her clothes since they were found up on Albany, probably in her garage before he left- obviously he didn't do that on Lapham Rd and can't imagine he'd risk it in the open even on a remote road like Silver Spring. And the zip ties too.
Come to think of it he could have removed her clothes in the garage and taken them back to plant on Albany to mislead if that was his plan all along (or maybe he thought she wouldn't be ID'd without clothes?), but the zip ties are harder to explain, why would he have removed those if he put her in a grave down by NC? And why wouldn't he have ditched the bags of evidence on his way back, somewhere along the Merritt at a rest stop etc. I guess if there were that many bags you couldn't really do that in the middle of the day on a Friday holiday weekend with all the traffic whizzing by and everyone around at the rest stop. There's also the mystery of the license plates. But he could have found a remote place to leave them down there. See why I'm wavering on this now?

You should go check it out and see what you think- especially the section between Wilton Rd and East Rd, at the reservoir. If you drive it coming in from the NC end that is the direction he would have been coming from. Don't go at night, people go back there hunting and just shooting off guns not hunting either I guess if it's at night (also not a hunter myself). Of course people live on that road and I may be overplaying it, but it is remote compared to like Welles Lane and such. Remember in May there would have been leaves on the trees blocking the views from the houses more than right now where he would have more likelihood of being seen. It was really lush back that May due to the wet and warm spring.

MOO.

 

[Morgan10028]

Had FD been the person who had transferred all the evidence from JFD's Suburban to the Toyota Tacoma, then FD would have remembered to remove the pail with hoodie so it would have been discarded with the rest of the evidence during the Albany Ave run. The fact that the pail with hoodie was not thrown away with the rest of the stuff in the Albany Ave run, but was instead left in the toolbox (only to be found there after Memorial Day by PG, who then transferred it to the laundry room at 4JC) likely indicates someone else put it there. When FD and MT emptied the Toyota after they arrived at 80 MS Rd and before they made their Albany Ave evidence-dumping run, they emptied what they saw and so missed the items put in the toolbox because they didn't know they were there. PG found the pail with hoodie in the toolbox of his Toyota when he went back to work after Memorial Day and was getting some tools for the day and, assuming the pail and hoodie belonged to FD, transferred those items into 4JC and we later see FD discarding those items at the place where he had PG's Toyota detailed.

By the way, this pail with hoodie discovered in the Toyota AFTER the Albany Ave run sort of destroys NP's suggestion that the bags of evidence FD and MT got rid of were dumped at 4JC to implicate FD. How would these supposed planters of evidence at 4JC have also managed to plant evidence (which FD subsequently dumps) into the toolbox of an employee's pickup truck that wasn't at 4JC that afternoon and that was not at any other FD-associated location after that afternoon until after Memorial Day? I bet FD flipped his lid when he discovered the pail with hoodie in his laundry room at 4JC the day after Memorial Day. I wonder if he called KM to ask where the pail that suddenly appeared had been stowed such that they missed it for the Albany Ave evidence dumping run.

^sbm
My initial impression of these events was a little different, and after re-reading your response I'm trying to re-think the possibilities. I always interpreted what was in the Arrest Warrants as PG returning to work after Memorial Day, and FD or MT placing the bucket with hoodie in the back end of PG's truck on 5/28. While just now re-reading AW3 again, and if the bucket/hoodie was in the bed of the truck, then MT placed them there because FD was having a convo with PG in the kitchen. I saw the bucket/hoodie as pieces of evidence they forgot to dump on Albany Ave and/or one they could use to implicate PG-if that was their goal. Did MT take the bucket/hoodie back to 80MS on 5/24 during the car shuffle?

Timing in AW 3 (WS link below)
5/24
4:30: PG arrives at 4 JX and his car isn't there. PG goes to 585 Deercliff to retrieve the boards he used as a ramp for his dirt bike.

4:58pm: PG goes to 80 MS to get his truck. He wants to load his dirt bike in the bed of the Tacoma and take it home

5:02-5:14pm: Car shuffle between 4JX and 80 MS with FD and PG arriving back at 80MS. MT has taken PG's Keys

5:24pm: MT returns with PG's keys. Minutes later, PG leaves in his Tacoma

5/28
-PG arrives at 4 JX and enters the house to give FD the Tacoma keys. PG plans to take Raptor to work in NC
-During the key exchange inside 4JX, FD asks PG about his timeline on Friday as say "to leave the part out" about MT taking his Tacoma keys on 5/24, if questioned
-Following the conversation, PG went to his truck to get a toolbox and saw a red pail with a blue hoodie inside. PG didn't recognize the items, took them into 4JX and left them in the laundry room.

Outstanding questions: Was the bucket w/hoodie in the bed or back seat of the Tacoma? Up until now, I possibly wrongfully thought it was in the bed of PG's Tacoma. If the toolbox was in the bed of the truck, PG clearly loaded the dirt bike boards (picked up from 585 DC on 5/24) and dirt bike into the bed of his truck on 5/24. Wouldn't he have seen a red bucket with hoodie in the black bed of his truck before 5/28 when removing his dirt bike and boards? If PG found the items in the truck bed, it would support the idea of the items being placed on 5/28 over being forgotten on 5/24. My bet would be that PG had to pass a few cameras on his way to 4JX on 5/28 and LE would know or be able to confirm if the bucket was in the bed of the Tacoma.

A toolbox would be heavy and inconvenient to put in the rear seat of a 2 door cab, no? Would you store a toolbox in the backseat only to grab a few tools at a time? I really don't know, though it seems like a heavy, cumbersome item to put in the backseat of a 2 door cab. And if PG went to get his toolbox on 5/28 to transfer to the Raptor, wouldn't that mean he traveled with it and transferred it to/from the Raptor on work days? What about on 5/24? Would he put the toolbox in the backseat of a 2 door cab from his home to 4JX only to take it out upon arrival? It wouldn't fly out of the bed and would certainly be easier to transfer. Did PG transfer the toolbox from the Raptor to the Tacoma on 5/24? This could go so many ways

Some of the bags dumped on Albany Ave on 5/24 were clearly from the Tacoma cleanup at 80 MS, and were likely never in the backseat of the Tacoma. Garbage bags don't appear to be in the back of the Tacoma while on the Merritt on 5/24 (and would possibly fly away on the return trip to Farmington, if placed there), so I believe the garbage bags created on and from 5/24 would've been in the cab of the Tacoma (and I thought up until now, as was Jennifer. Still thinking about that part).

FD was cleaning the interior of the Tacoma at 80 MS on 5/24. Did he leave the bucket/hoodie behind to implicate PG or did he simply forget it? I find it doubtful that he forgot it, but managed to clean the "coffee" stain on the interior seat. The bags likely transferred from the Tacoma were later discarded on Albany Avenue were clearly removed from the Tacoma, so how do you miss the bucket/hoodie IF it was in the backseat of a 2 door cab?

AW 3 Link:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/6eb01bbf-8afe-4860-a191-c57592237b20-png.280789/

I read your post in pieces and wanted to throw out the thoughts above before forgetting by the end of your post.

As for KM driving FD's suburban: Wouldn't KM's DNA appear in his AW for Conspiracy to Commit Murder? LE would've known about KM's prints/DNA as well as movement prior to his 1/20 arrest as they did FD/MT, so why wait until 1/20 to arrest him? I am doubtful that KM would've gotten the easy bond he did, if his actions all along were similar to FD and MT.

PS. Sorry for the repetition, I write and then go back and add...and it all eventually becomes a chocolate mess
MOO

 

[sleuth66]

I think FD likely had longer than originally thought with JFD's body after leaving 69 Welles Lane that morning.

I strongly suspect that FD was not the person driving the Toyota Tacoma from New Canaan to 80 MS Rd after the abduction/murder and that he was instead driving his own Suburban, with JFD's body aboard. I also suspect that gave him hours with JFD's body without detection of his whereabouts and raises the possibility that MT may at some point have joined him before the two of them showed up together in separate vehicles at 80 MS Rd at 1:36 pm. Why?

Had FD been the person who had transferred all the evidence from JFD's Suburban to the Toyota Tacoma, then FD would have remembered to remove the pail with hoodie so it would have been discarded with the rest of the evidence during the Albany Ave run. The fact that the pail with hoodie was not thrown away with the rest of the stuff in the Albany Ave run, but was instead left in the toolbox (only to be found there after Memorial Day by PG, who then transferred it to the laundry room at 4JC) likely indicates someone else put it there. When FD and MT emptied the Toyota after they arrived at 80 MS Rd and before they made their Albany Ave evidence-dumping run, they emptied what they saw and so missed the items put in the toolbox because they didn't know they were there. PG found the pail with hoodie in the toolbox of his Toyota when he went back to work after Memorial Day and was getting some tools for the day and, assuming the pail and hoodie belonged to FD, transferred those items into 4JC and we later see FD discarding those items at the place where he had PG's Toyota detailed.

By the way, this pail with hoodie discovered in the Toyota AFTER the Albany Ave run sort of destroys NP's suggestion that the bags of evidence FD and MT got rid of were dumped at 4JC to implicate FD. How would these supposed planters of evidence at 4JC have also managed to plant evidence (which FD subsequently dumps) into the toolbox of an employee's pickup truck that wasn't at 4JC that afternoon and that was not at any other FD-associated location after that afternoon until after Memorial Day? I bet FD flipped his lid when he discovered the pail with hoodie in his laundry room at 4JC the day after Memorial Day. I wonder if he called KM to ask where the pail that suddenly appeared had been stowed such that they missed it for the Albany Ave evidence dumping run.

IMO these conspirators played games with vehicles just like they played games with cellphones. So, IMO FD drove PG's Toyota Tacoma to New Canaan, but drove his own Suburban back and KM drove FD's Suburban to New Canaan, but he drove the Toyota Tacoma back.

I suspect KM gained access to FD's Suburban the night before, during that strange rendezvous in the middle of FD's dinner party. Then, the morning of 5/24 KM drove FD's Suburban to a prearranged meeting spot in New Canaan and waited until FD showed up.

I think after leaving JFD's home with her body in her own Suburban, FD met up with KM at FD's Suburban and transferred JFD's body to it (possibly into the Thule rack atop the vehicle). FD then took the wheel of his own Suburban and KM took the wheel of JFD's Suburban and drove it to the Toyota (where in his panic or his determination to leave as few prints as possible, KM neglected to take that Suburban out of "Reverse" and put it in "Park" and neglected to take the keys out of the ignition), then KM transferred all remaining evidence (the garbage bags full of cleanup items, the plastic pail with blue hoodie, the Weathertech liner from JFD's cargo area, and the bicycle) to the Toyota and drove off to arrive at 12:22 pm at 80 MS Rd where (IMO) MT had been kind enough to leave his cellphone for him at that location or at his vehicle somewhere nearby.

FD in his Suburban and MT in the Jeep later arrive in tandem at 1:36 pm at 80 MS Rd and FD's phone then activates. IIRC, MT accounts for her time from when her phone alarm rings to wake her up until around 11:30 and I assume LE checked the places she claims to have been after she left 4JC at around 9:30 to 11:30. But, IIRC, her story about what happens after 11:30 sounds as sketchy and shifting in key details as her eventually abandoned story about FD having been at 4JC that morning. I wonder if MT's phone had been deactivated for the 2 hours prior to 1:36 pm.

I'm not sure that the presence of the bucket and hoodie in the toolbox suggest KM or an accomplice. The bucket and hoodie would be quite incriminating- the hoodie was what FD wore when biking to JDs, and it likely had JD blood on it as well as his DNA obviously, so he would want to keep that discrete. The bucket also matched a bucket in JDs garage, according to the nanny, that she had placed there on the shelf just that week- FD wouldn't know that latter detail of course, but he would know that the bucket came from the Welles garage and could be traced there if seen.
Also, the bucket/sweatshirt could easily have flown out of the bed of the pickup on the way back to Farmington- he couldn't just risk it being out in the open so he could have, in the stress of moving things from the JD Suburban on Lapham to the Tacoma, popped it in the toolbox to keep it from being seen or flying out of the bed on the highway.
Arriving back in Farmington, he could easily have been distracted and obsessed with not just unloading the Tacoma plus whatever else he might have been doing with the body possibly, etc, but also with the stain on the seat. Bucket and shirt, out of sight, out of mind in the toolbox, especially when other super stressful and pressing matters were at hand. Plus the "hide the key"game suggests that FD and MT were scheming to try to keep the Tacoma over the weekend to finish up the cleanup, etc and were foiled by PG. I could see FD (and maybe MT) later that weekend saying, "$%^!", I left that bucket and sweatshirt in the toolbox, is he gonna find it? Or possibly with all the stress at hand, not even remembering it until it reappeared in the 4JC laundry room and thinking what a close call...

As for accomplices, some of us had considered someone meeting FD in NC and taking the body out to sea in LI sound- FD had friends who owned boats and there are many nearby places they could have moored and taken on a small piece of cargo for disposal on the way back to, like where one of FDs FORE lenders was based? So not categorically excluding accomplices.
I am sure LE is giving heavy scrutiny to KMs whereabouts and alibis etc that day given that a plea deal looks to possibly be in the works, KM has given LE 3 hours of interview, and while it could all be garbage and lies, certainly LE is giving KMs whereabouts that day more scrutiny as a result. If he had been in NC it would be rather risky of him to try to cut a deal and give LE a long interview, I would think, unless he was confident that they didn't have any way of catching him. So much surveillance, and more they haven't disclosed.
Fingers crossed we get to hear some of KMs interview soon...with JS on board you know he'll leak it as soon as he can figure out a way....

MOO.

 

[sleuth66]

Could it be possible that KM was initially in on the plan to take out JD as well as his own STBX, but then pulled out, either after his STBX wouldn't go along with FD's lure, or KM got cold feet about the whole thing?

What would KM have to gain if they couldn't get rid of his STBX, since she refused to go over to 4JC for the "sex pad" meetup? That might have been the original plan, and the grave at the gun club might in that case indeed have been for KM STBX. KM was into strangulation during sex (ugh, but that is what the warrant states), statistics show that strangulation logarithmically increases the odds for spousal murder, and it could have been the plan to get them into the sex pad and then KM take STBX out that way, put the body at the gun club. Who knows what alibi FD could have had in mind for KM- like you alibi me, I'll alibi you, etc.

In this scenario, since KM STBX didn't fall for the lure, KM might have told FD he wouldn't be part of it anymore. KM could have gone back to the gun club to fill in the grave "neat like a pin" and told FD that while he'd appear at 4JC the morning of 5/24 for a "meeting" alibi (which would be defensible and legitimate, KM was FDs attorney after all) he would not be part of the murder plot anymore.

After the arrests on the night of 5/31, KM could have panicked and gone back to the gun club just to make sure FD and MT didn't put JD there (thus the pinging at 11pm there). And when the warrant for KM came out, he would have run, knowing his original involvement could have been found out, and panicking about what LE had on him/what MT or FD might have let slip.

With time, and FDs death, KM being an attorney could have had ample time in prison to come up with a defense that slid around his initial involvement and morphed into a way to explain his knowledge of the events without directly incriminating himself, especially since FD isn't around anymore to hold sway.

Somehow KMs deal in the JD case is tied to his STBX cases, as presented in the media and legal documents. Doubt KM would admit to conspiring to kill his STBX, but that could have been the reality, and he could be massaging the story to LE to try to avoid incrimination there, but in order explain whatever knowledge he has- by saying that FD and MT tried to get him in on the plan and to take out his own STBX, but he refused.

Not saying this is the case, just throwing out possibilities to consider.

MOO.

 

[pernickety]

Very good, I can see this happening.......now where is Jennifer?
(Hope LE is reading here!)

I hope so too. Great analysis here

Could it be possible that KM was initially in on the plan to take out JD as well as his own STBX, but then pulled out, either after his STBX wouldn't go along with FD's lure, or KM got cold feet about the whole thing?

What would KM have to gain if they couldn't get rid of his STBX, since she refused to go over to 4JC for the "sex pad" meetup? That might have been the original plan, and the grave at the gun club might in that case indeed have been for KM STBX. KM was into strangulation during sex (ugh, but that is what the warrant states), statistics show that strangulation logarithmically increases the odds for spousal murder, and it could have been the plan to get them into the sex pad and then KM take STBX out that way, put the body at the gun club. Who knows what alibi FD could have had in mind for KM- like you alibi me, I'll alibi you, etc.

In this scenario, since KM STBX didn't fall for the lure, KM might have told FD he wouldn't be part of it anymore. KM could have gone back to the gun club to fill in the grave "neat like a pin" and told FD that while he'd appear at 4JC the morning of 5/24 for a "meeting" alibi (which would be defensible and legitimate, KM was FDs attorney after all) he would not be part of the murder plot anymore.

After the arrests on the night of 5/31, KM could have panicked and gone back to the gun club just to make sure FD and MT didn't put JD there (thus the pinging at 11pm there). And when the warrant for KM came out, he would have run, knowing his original involvement could have been found out, and panicking about what LE had on him/what MT or FD might have let slip.

With time, and FDs death, KM being an attorney could have had ample time in prison to come up with a defense that slid around his initial involvement and morphed into a way to explain his knowledge of the events without directly incriminating himself, especially since FD isn't around anymore to hold sway.

Somehow KMs deal in the JD case is tied to his STBX cases, as presented in the media and legal documents. Doubt KM would admit to conspiring to kill his STBX, but that could have been the reality, and he could be massaging the story to LE to try to avoid incrimination there, but in order explain whatever knowledge he has- by saying that FD and MT tried to get him in on the plan and to take out his own STBX, but he refused.

Not saying this is the case, just throwing out possibilities to consider.

MOO.

Here's a 2019 interview with the attorney for STBX of KM, with extra footage, to refresh memories.

‘I’m not sure she would have come back,’ Mawhinney’s wife’s lawyer speaks out | fox61.com

 

[Southernsnooper]

Great thoughts all!

If you reread all of our earlier threads we really did an amazing job trying to make sense of the small gap in time before the Tacoma was captured on the Merritt.

The more I think about it, I am really returning to that thought we discussed in the early threads, that FD’s suburban was in nc on the 24th.

I just wish we knew if LE captured it on the same cameras on the Merritt or any other surveillance if an alternate route was taken (either driven by KM or another person... I don’t think MT as she was establishing her alibis and had to pick up her daughter.) Also, was there onstar data we are not aware of yet? The AWs are totally minimal as to save it for the trial?

If FD was so concerned about leaving a hair and shaved his head, makes me feel that he must be paranoid and with that said, would he really drive with a body on the Merritt? Would he drive with the bagged bloody evidence including soaked pillow and paper towels etc.??? Would KM?

The license plates obviously played a role as he took time to alter the numbers with tape and put them in a FedEx box and made a special stop to put them in the drain. Why? Were they used on his Suburban? Jeep?

The time he spent at 80 ms, was it just cleaning the Tacoma? I’m puzzled as MT said she brought Clorox spray. Where was it used? Not in the Tacoma as PG would have noticed and mentioned the smell or maybe it’s not just on the AW. Maybe used on the Weathertech mat.

He used a mop, blood on mop handle per aw, where was it used? Not at Welles, was not listed as missing per nanny. LA only shared the paper towels, bucket and camping pillow were missing. So why use a mop at 80 ms? We haven’t heard of blood found on any other floors than garage floor at Welles. Really wondering about the use of the mop and Clorox spray. MT mentioned vacuum too. Was it used or another lie just to throw off LE snd excuse to go back to 4 Jx as she said it was broken.

Still wondering what was with the Mira search. The attached article mentions Brian Foley stating it was worth it.

What did they find that they’re not sharing in the aw that made that long, painstaking search worth it???

Jennifer Dulos case: Fotis renting cars while his remain seized by police

So much we don’t know! Looking forward to learning what’s on all of those cds!!!!

Moo

 

[Southernsnooper]

Also, noting Blawie returned FD’s seized suburban and Jeep but not the Tacoma. They can still use photos of what they found in court but interesting point or maybe we just don’t know if the Tacoma was returned to PG. Fotis Dulos appears in court; some seized items to be returned | fox61.com
Moo

 

[Lilypad13]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed as I’m new to this thread. I’ve been following JD case since the beginning but not on WS (joined in May 2020 to follow Suzanne Morphew case). Anyway, if I am understanding correctly there was a bloody “camping pillow” found among the items in the garbage bags from Albany Avenue. This pillow was missing from JD garage per nanny. I looked up camping pillows to get an idea of what it might have looked like. Camping pillows are generally smaller than standard pillows and come in many different shapes & sizes and materials. Some camping pillows look waterproof and some are made of foam and some fold up into a compact size and have nylon carrying bags with drawstrings or zippers. Why did FD need the pillow? Is the speculation it was used to suffocate JD? Was it used as a silencer for a gunshot? Was it used to soak up blood? Was it used for the carrying case if there was one? Is there is a photo of the actual type of pillow JD had on the garage shelf? What are ya’ll thinking the camp pillow was used for? Just curious. TIA

Edit: I seriously doubt it was used to make JD more comfortable so I was just wondering why FD would have grabbed the pillow? I know it probably doesn’t matter but could it hold a clue to how she was killed? We know there was a lot of blood so it wasn’t simply suffocation but maybe she was still breathing and fighting so he grabbed the pillow to suffocate her and hasten her death? Sorry so graphic! All MOO & speculation.

 

[Laughing]

Re: small pillow.

LE acknowledges the Welles garage as a crime scene. I'd speculate either to muffle sound (screams or gunfire? ) or staunch blood flow.


image from stamfordadvocate.com

jmho ymmv lrr