I've been struggling with this, too. Did you watch Larry King last night? A couple of things brought up disturbed me that I can't make sense of.
Dr. Phil sat in for Larry and he made a strong point of saying that Jaycee could answer questions about Michaela and why wasn't she. Sharon Murch seemed uncomfortable with the direction Dr. Phil was headed. But when you think about it, no matter how much trauma Jaycee has experienced answering some questions about Michaela is important right now and she's apparently not doing it.
Michaela's mother made a plea to Michaela that was strange - no matter what she's done type plea. Makes me wonder what Phillip may have made these girls do for so many years. Maybe Michaela is with someone else in a situation similar to Jaycee's?
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/18/lkl.01.html
"(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. CHRIS ORREY, HAYWARD, CA POLICE: We did locate another bone on the exterior of the Garrido property. It was in a different location than the bone located on that property earlier in the week. And it's too early to even begin to guess what kind of bone that might be, human or animal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCGRAW: Phillip Garrido and his wife, Nancy, were arrested August 26th and remain jailed on kidnapping and rape charges in connection with the '91 abduction of 11-year-old Jaycee Dugard. Now, Garrido allegedly fathered her two daughters. Investigators are now trying to determine if there's any connection between the Garridos and two other unsolved missing girl cases.
Joining us now is CNN's Dan Simon with the latest. He's in our San Francisco bureau. And Dan, this story just gets more compelling by the day.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's really been unbelievable since this all started in late August. And we can tell you today authorities were back out at the house. They've been there pretty much since this case began. And what they're looking for, as you mentioned, Dr. Phil -- they're looking to see if Philip and Nancy Garrido might be somehow linked to a pair of kidnappings that happened roughly 20 years ago.
And what they've been doing is they've been looking, basically, in the backyard of the house. They've had cadaver dogs there. They've come across, actually, several bones. At this point, they don't know if those bones are animal or human. But they've been sifting through the backyard. There's been so much debris back there, it's really been taking all this time just to get the whole place cleared out.
What we saw yesterday was quite compelling as well. The first time we've actually seen the inside of this house. And we've seen the backyard and the series of tents and sheds. Well, inside, it doesn't look any better. You're seeing dishes that haven't been washed, stacked up in the sink, discarded furniture, discarded appliances.
And this is the kind of life that Jaycee Dugard was exposed to for nearly 20 years.
MCGRAW: Let's look at the timing, Dan. I know you've been all over this case. We've watched you so closely as you've brought this information to us. We know that he gets out of jail. And at the time he gets out, we begin to see this pattern. Michaela Garecht in September of '88 is abducted. Ilene Misheloff in '89 gets abducted. And then Jaycee Dugard in '91.
Is the timing one of the big reasons that they're looking at this? Michaela was nine. Ilene was 13. Jaycee was 11. They happened in '88, '89, and '91.
SIMON: Absolutely. We know that he got off jail approximately in 1988 after serving 11 years of a 50-year prison sentence for committing a rape back in 1976. But you're right, the timing is a coincidence here. Well, maybe not. That's what authorities want to look at.
But in particular, as it relates to the Michaela Garecht case, police are really looking at that case closely, really for a couple of reasons. First of all, if you look at Jaycee Dugard, she was 11, and Michaela Garecht, she was nine. You put them side by side, they're almost identical. Both have blond hair, blue eyes. Very similar in appearance. Perhaps there is an MO there.
Secondly, you look at Philip Garrido and you look at the composite sketch of the subject back when that took place, some 20- years-ago, and police say there's a striking resemblance between Phillip Garrido and the composite sketch.
And finally, there was a witness to what happened back when Michaela Garecht was abducted. She said abducted near a supermarket. She has looked at this car that was taken off the Garrido property. And she says, you know, that looks a lot like the car that I remember my friend being taken away in.
So there's a lot to look at here. And of course, that's why cops are back out at the house.
MCGRAW: OK, Dan, I want you to stay with us if you can. When we come back, we're going to talk to the mother of one of the still- missing girls, and to the woman who witnessed the actual abduction when she was a child two decades ago. We'll talk to them when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCGRAW: You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. I'm Dr. Phil McGraw, sitting in for Larry tonight. Sharon Murch is joining us. Her daughter, Michaela, was kidnapped in 1988. Sharon, as you've watched this unfold, is it eerily similar to what happened to your daughter?
SHARON MURCH, MOTHER OF KIDNAPPED DAUGHTER: Well, yes, there are a lot of similarities between Jaycee's kidnapping and Michaela's kidnapping. The cases have intersected in the investigations over the years because of those similarities. And when Jaycee was found alive, my first thought was, please, god, let Michaela be with her.
MCGRAW: And, of course, we know that she wasn't with her. Has there ever been an arrest or an active suspect in the case of Michaela?
MURCH: There have been a number of suspects. The police have investigating over 13,000 leads in the last 20 years. But there have never been any arrests.
MCGRAW: Do you still hold out hope that she's alive?
MURCH: I do still hold out hope that she's alive. One of the neighbors of the Garrido's several years ago reported that there were girls living in the backyard, and they reported that there were not three girls living in the backyard, but five girls. So that leaves two unaccounted for. And I'm believing that one of those could be Michaela.
MCGRAW: Katrina Rodriguez is joining us. She was with Michaela Garecht and witnessed her kidnapping. Katrina, this has got to bring an awful lot back to you when you hear about the way in which Jaycee was reportedly kidnapped.
KATRINA RODRIGUEZ, WITNESS TO KIDNAPPING: Yes, it sounds remarkably like Michaela's kidnapping. Broad daylight, shoved into a car. And with her kidnapping, I believe there was a witness too.
MCGRAW: Are you the one that provided the description to the police?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
MCGRAW: And you remember the car. Tell us what you remember about the car that she was pulled into.
RODRIGUEZ: It was early '80s, maybe late '70s, kind of boxy, a sedan, and tan in color. And photos I've seen of the Garrido's car, they -- it looks like the same shape of car. I can't vouch for the color. It doesn't match my memory. But the shape of the car matches.
MCGRAW: People might wonder, of course, why would they have that car 30 years later. But I have to tell you, from a psychological perspective, when I see the photos from inside the house, it is highly suggestive that these people may be hoarders, that just can't turn loose of anything. They collect things that are obviously junk to someone else, but that they can't turn loose of.
If that's the case, if these pictures of the house do depict some type of unwillingness or inability to turn loose of things, it might explain why that car was still there, if, in fact, it is the same car. When you see -- Katrina, when you see pictures of Phillip Garrido, what do you think? Does it ring any bells with you?
RODRIGUEZ: I've seen some photos of him from the late '70s and early '80s, and I have to say that it looks a lot like my memory of the kidnapper, especially the eyes. But the shape of the face, length of it, kind of the placement of his eyes apart from each other, and everything just kind of seems to match up. And I haven't really gone on record as saying that very often.
MCGRAW: Well, yes, clearly, that's got to be a compelling image for you to see, because I know it was traumatic for you at the time as well. We're going to have Katrina tell us more about that fateful day and talk more to Sharon when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCGRAW: I'm Dr. Phil, sitting in for Larry King tonight. Right now, we are talking about Jaycee Dugard's kidnapping and her release. Dan Simon is with us. Dan, you've been on top of this case from the beginning. What's the mood in the neighborhood up there?
SIMON: Well, I think people are pretty upset that the authorities didn't, you know, discover this case a lot sooner. We actually spoke to a neighbor. His girlfriend called the police some three years ago. She looked over the fence of their property, saw some tents, saw some children living in the backyard, picked up the phone, dialed 911.
Sheriff's office came out, talked to Phillip Garrido for a few minutes and then left. So I think when you walk through the streets of that neighborhood, people are angry, saying, why didn't police, you know, catch this guy a lot sooner?
MCGRAW: Dan, one of the things I wanted to ask you -- and I'm sure you've talked to law enforcement, both on and off the record. But I know next Thursday on my show, we're doing a story about the Wessen family that was in Fresno and wound up with very similar situation. The father that had daughters living in tents, had sex with daughters that yielded children. And when he was confronted by police, he killed every one that was home, shooting them all in the head.
Is this something that was averted? While law enforcement seemed to drop the ball on one hand, they were terribly alert on the other in recognizing that something was going on, to avoid what could have been a tragic outcome, like the one we're going to talk about on Thursday.
SIMON: Well, clearly Phillip Garrido, if the allegations are true, had an unbelievable ability to keep this secret for so many years. He had to meet with his parole officer a couple of times a month. We know that the children and Jaycee Dugard were visible with him at times. That backyard was there for many, many years. Apparently, only a few neighbors saw it.
So he had really an incredible ability to keep this double life from coming out.
MCGRAW: Well, Sharon, let me ask you, have you talked to Jaycee Dugard?
MURCH: No, I haven't.
MCGRAW: Because I would -- you know, I would think that it would be such a wonderful opportunity. Maybe they crossed paths in some ways. It's possible that Jaycee knew your daughter or saw your daughter or knows something about her. I'm sure you must just be really, really anxious to ask those questions.
MURCH: I think it is possible, but Jaycee was not Jaycee at the time that she lived with Phillip Garrido. She was Alyssa. So if she had crossed paths with Michaela, she may not have even known it.
MCGRAW: But if she could be shown some pictures, if she could, you know, talk with you, get some descriptions, some things that she might recognize, that would just be so helpful. And we just wish you so much goodwill with all of this, and hope that something comes up.
More with Katrina and Sharon after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
MCGRAW: We're here talking about the Jaycee Dugard case, really from a different angle, because there are two other disappearances that happened along that time, about that time. And so now there is real suspicion that he may have been involved in those disappearances. Maybe so, maybe not. But there are some similarities.
Sharon Murch, mother of one of the missing girls, Michaela Garecht, is with us, and Katrina Rodriguez, who was with Michaela at the time she was abducted. Katrina, let me start with you. Were you and Michaela the same age?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes, we were both in the fourth grade.
MCGRAW: OK. And tell us what happened that day. You were walking down the -- how did it happen? I know there were some scooters involved.
RODRIGUEZ: Yes. We rode scooters a couple blocks from our house to the local supermarket. And we went inside. We got some soda and some beef jerky and Laffy Taffy. And we started to leave the building. We walked to the edge of the parking lot, and then realized we had left the scooters. And we went back to the front door to look for where we had parked them.
And one of them was missing. Michaela was the first to notice where the other scooter was. And so she went to go pick it up. And as I stooped down to pick up the other scooter, I heard screaming. And I looked up and I saw a man shoving her into his car.
And he got in the car. He pulled out of the parking spot, out of the parking lot, and on to the road. And that's when I ran inside to tell a clerk. And she called 911. MCGRAW: So you knew right away this was all wrong. I mean you could -- you knew it was not -- that this was not supposed to be happening?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes. But it took a little while to register. I definitely wasn't expecting it, so I just stood frozen watching it until he had gotten out to the road. And then I ran in. But, yes, I definitely knew something was very wrong.
MCGRAW: What's been your reaction with all this coming out now with Jaycee Dugard?
RODRIGUEZ: I have got a lot of hope renewed. And then just there's renewed feelings of guilt and sadness that it was Michaela who was kidnapped. I mean, obviously I'm thankful for my life and what I've had and experienced. But I'm very sad that Michaela didn't.
MCGRAW: How has it affected you over the years that you saw such a traumatic thing?
RODRIGUEZ: I would say I'm a little more apt to take responsibility for things maybe that really aren't my fault. I'm a pretty over-protective mom, I'd say. And, yes, I -- I definitely have fears that people are going to come after me and my children.
MCGRAW: It's very understandable. Sharon, what is it that you want people in America, around the world, and certainly in that area to know about Michaela and about your hopes?
MURCH: I would like to address Michaela. I'm hoping that she's out there alive, and she's able to see me, and able to hear my voice. I just want to tell her that there's nothing that could have happened over the last 20 years that could have changed my feelings for her. There's nothing that could have happened over the last 20 years that we cannot heal. And I am just begging her to break free and come home.
If she's not willing to do it for herself, do it for me, please. Because going through this and wondering where my daughter is and what she might be experiencing or what she might have experienced is really hard. And I just really long to have the experience that Jaycee's mother has had of being reunited, and being able to hold her in my arms again. I just want her to come home.
MCGRAW: Sharon, we'll all pray for you. Thank you. And Katrina, thank you. We'll wrap it up after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCGRAW: The question on everybody's mind is Philip Garrido involved in some of the other disappearances that we've been talking about tonight. Dan Simon, you've been in Antioch. You've been all over this. Experts that follow these things with pedophiles and sexual offenders tell us that the average sexual offender can have anywhere 100 to 400 victims throughout their lifetime. So the fact that Philip Garrido has been tied to one that we know of and a violent rape before leaves an awful lot of concern that there are other victims out there. What does law enforcement think about this?
SIMON: Dr. Phil, I've often heard you say the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. But in terms of what authorities are saying, the bottom line is they don't know if he's connected to these other cases. That's why they're spending so much time out at the house.
We can tell that you starting on Monday, police are going to be back out there looking at the soil. They're going to be digging it up. We know that a couple of cadaver dogs picked up a scent. They zeroed in on one particular area. They brought out magnetometers today and they confirmed that there is something unusual beneath the soil.
I think once they go in there and dig up that yard a little bit more, perhaps it might yield a few more answers. You mentioned that they didn't throw anything away, that they showed classic signs of being hoarders. When it comes to this particular case. that might be an asset. Because if you didn't throw anything away, there might be evidence in the house that might tie into some of these other crimes.
MCGRAW: Well, if they are hoarders, and it certainly looks like they're pack rats, then hopefully there will be clues in there, something that will tie back to some other cases. Because, as I say, there are a number of those that -- there is such a high number that these people usually victimize. It doesn't mean that they're violent with all of them. But they do have more than one victim typically. So maybe we'll learn something about that as we go along.
Dan, I'm sure you'll keep us posted on all that. You know, we've seen pictures tonight of the young girls. It's hard to age them in your mind. But if anybody knows anything about it, you know, please contact the authorities. Let us know.
I really enjoyed sitting in with Larry tonight. This isn't a fun topic, but it's one I know you're interested in. So I hope I see you next week on "Dr. Phil." We have the Dr. Phil family back after five years on Monday. We'll be looking at a very similar case to this on Wednesday.
So I hope to see you there. And thanks for the time that you spent with us here tonight. I know Larry will be back Monday. It will be great. So appreciate it."
