Darlie's injuries

[Dani_T]

Do Darlie and/or Darin either one give an long or elaborate reason how they think she got the bruises. They seems to stay away from the subject. Most stuff I've heard was from the supporters after the trial was over.

She can't say how she thinks she got the bruises (beyond them being a result of an intruder attack) because of her 'traumatic amnesia'. The minute she says 'I got the bruises as a result of him doing xyz' she's saying that she remembers something about the attack. The bruises were supposed to speak for themselves. Unfortunately for her their link to the attack was made very tenuous by the nurses testimony.

 

[Goody]

Do Darlie and/or Darin either one give an long or elaborate reason how they think she got the bruises. They seems to stay away from the subject. Most stuff I've heard was from the supporters after the trial was over.

At the trial, Darlie said it was obvious she had been attacked because of the bruises and her other injuries. Beyond that she has never elaborated that I know of. I don't believe Darin has ever said anything about the bruises specifically.

 

[justice2]

OK, just off the top of my head ... If they had staged it, seems like they would have an elaborate story to go with it, just going from all the other stuff. If the nurses kept repeatedly checking her at the hospital that could have easily given them the idea not realizing that it was too late. So that may have been what kept them pretty quiet about it (the not realizing it was too late). I hope I'm making sense.

Which book has the best photos of the bruises. The ones of the web aren't very clear. I'll try to look at those before I mull over this anymore.

 

[Goody]

OK, just off the top of my head ... If they had staged it, seems like they would have an elaborate story to go with it, just going from all the other stuff. If the nurses kept repeatedly checking her at the hospital that could have easily given them the idea not realizing that it was too late. So that may have been what kept them pretty quiet about it (the not realizing it was too late). I hope I'm making sense.

Which book has the best photos of the bruises. The ones of the web aren't very clear. I'll try to look at those before I mull over this anymore.

Media Tried Justice Denied by Christopher Wayne Brown (you might have to buy it on ebay or from a fellow poster...Darlie Kee was selling them but I don't know if she still is....I have a feeling Darlie's attys put a stop to it as it is out of print supposedly) As far as I know, it is the only book with the crime scence photos in it and it does not have them all, just a sampling of them.

 

[justice2]

Media Tried Justice Denied by Christopher Wayne Brown (you might have to buy it on ebay or from a fellow poster...Darlie Kee was selling them but I don't know if she still is....I have a feeling Darlie's attys put a stop to it as it is out of print supposedly) As far as I know, it is the only book with the crime scence photos in it and it does not have them all, just a sampling of them.

Thanks Goody. Does look like it will be hard to find. Nothing on ebay right now. I'll try my library.

Any details on why Darlie attorney's didn't want it published. Just guesses?
The thought had entered my mind that Momma Darlie headed up the prosecution and not the lawyers, but that's just a guess. She does appear to be overbearing, how much behind close doors I don't know.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks Goody. Does look like it will be hard to find. Nothing on ebay right now. I'll try my library.

Any details on why Darlie attorney's didn't want it published. Just guesses?
The thought had entered my mind that Momma Darlie headed up the prosecution and not the lawyers, but that's just a guess. She does appear to be overbearing, how much behind close doors I don't know.

You mean she headed up the defense? Believe me, the prosecutors wanted nothing to do with "Mama Darlie."

My guess is that at first they thought the book was a good idea. However, after hearing more often than not that it took people who were on the fence and dropped them squarely on the "guilty" side made them think differently about the book.

 

[Goody]

Any details on why Darlie attorney's didn't want it published. Just guesses?
The thought had entered my mind that Momma Darlie headed up the prosecution and not the lawyers, but that's just a guess. She does appear to be overbearing, how much behind close doors I don't know.

I think that book was creating too much of a controversy, even among her own camp. The writer and publisher lives with Darin's parents or did the last time I looked up his address. I could be wrong, but I think her attys would want the internet discussions to go away and that is why we have seen so many changes of late, including the forum for her supporters drying up. Also over the years websleuthers have buddied up to people in her camp and betrayed them, probably causing some leaks that the attys did not like. It seemed like shortly after this new team came on board, the Darlies started drying up. The forum closed down, the webmaster of her site started another one and the family took over Darlie's site. Can't get any of the videos anymore. At least not on her site. I am surprised the attys let them keep any of the crime scene photos up, blown up or not, and the trial transcripts. But so far they are still available.

I don't think Mama Darlie had much to say about Darlie's defense at all. She is outspoken and defends her daughter pretty vocally, but I think she relies on Darin's lead in that dept. Or at least she did thru the trial. Just my impression though, but I wasn't there and don;t know anyone in either family or any of the LEs involved. So take it for what it is worth. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee in some places today. LOL!

Personally I think Mama Darlie knows in her heart of hearts that Darlie is guilty but is driven to save her life. I don't blame her. I would do the same thing if it was my daughter. I can't imagine a worse position for any mother to be in and I don't envy that poor woman at all. How does she choose between her grand children and her first born? She can't, so she can only focus on Darlie right now. The boys are gone. She can't help them, but she can help Darlie. Besides helping Darlie is probably the only thing that keeps her from falling apart emotionally. Keeping her on the fight to save Darlie helps her put everything else on a shelf somewhere where she doesn't have to deal with them on a daily basis. Every strike against Darlie by the law, by the media, by the public is a strike against Mama Darlie, too. She can't help but wonder what she did so wrong to cause this. At least that is what I would do...eat that guilt up like it was my last meal.

 

[beesy]

I think that book was creating too much of a controversy

I was watching one of the A&E programs and it said most women stab overhanded, while men usually stab underhanded. That doesn't show us much about Darlie's guilt, but it knocks out yet another of crazy Chris' theories. He believes that Devon got up to help his mother, was stabbed while standing up, fell backwards onto that dang glass table with the intruder on top of him and was stabbed again. If most men stab underhanded, at least one of Devon's wounds would not have been so high on his chest. Just one more thing to show how nuts Mr. Brown is.

Personally I think Mama Darlie knows in her heart of hearts that Darlie is guilty but is driven to save her life. I don't blame her. I would do the same thing if it was my daughter. I can't imagine a worse position for any mother to be in and I don't envy that poor woman at all. How does she choose between her grand children and her first born? She can't, so she can only focus on Darlie right now. The boys are gone. She can't help them, but she can help Darlie. Besides helping Darlie is probably the only thing that keeps her from falling apart emotionally. Keeping her on the fight to save Darlie helps her put everything else on a shelf somewhere where she doesn't have to deal with them on a daily basis. Every strike against Darlie by the law, by the media, by the public is a strike against Mama Darlie, too. She can't help but wonder what she did so wrong to cause this. At least that is what I would do...eat that guilt up like it was my last meal

No, I cannot imagine the pain and trauma that woman has been through. I'm a little more cynical about her role however. Whether she believes Darlie or not, she's horrified to have a killer in the family. Now that's white trash.:twocents: Clearing Darlie's name also clears the Routier name and Mama Darlie's name. You're from the South Goody, names mean alot. That was all many Southerners had after the War.

 

[Goody]

[/color]
I was watching one of the A&E programs and it said most women stab overhanded, while men usually stab underhanded. That doesn't show us much about Darlie's guilt, but it knocks out yet another of crazy Chris' theories. He believes that Devon got up to help his mother, was stabbed while standing up, fell backwards onto that dang glass table with the intruder on top of him and was stabbed again. If most men stab underhanded, at least one of Devon's woulds not have been so high on his chest. Just one more thing to show how nuts Mr. Brown is.

That goes hand in hand with the forensic evidence against Darlie. She had to be stabbing overhanded.

BRW, I have a bunch of good detective techniques from Mark Furhman out of the Terri Schiavo case. Darlie is almlost textbook. I will share them with you when I get a chance to type it all up. Great stuff in that book.

No, I cannot imagine the pain and trauma that woman has been through. I'm a little more cynical about her role however. Whether she believes Darlie or not, she's horrified to have a killer in the family. Now that's white trash.:twocents: Clearing Darlie's name also clears the Routier name and Mama Darlie's name. You're from the South Goody, names mean alot. That was all many Southerners had after the War.

[/color]

Mama Darlie is a Yankee, transplanted to Texas. I am sure that it bothers her knowing that people believe she is the mother of a baby killer, but I don't think that is her first concern. Her first concern had to be to save Darlie's life, keep her off of death row. Mama Darlie wanted to take the blame all on to herself. She testified that Darlie had to grow up too fast, said that she herself had not been a very good mother because she had let Darlie raise her little sisters more or less, that Darlie didn't get much time to herself as a teen, etc, etc. She was hoping for leniency at that point.

I think Darlie Kee is a good woman who is in a horrible situation, not of her own doing. I don't think my daughter could do anything to cause me to turn against her, not even kill her own children. I would be devastated if she ever did anything like that, but my love for her would always be there. I don't think I could tell the truth if I knew the truth would end her life. If I didn't know what the truth was but only suspected it, I sure wouldn't try to find it out. Would you? Is there anything your children could do that would make you turn against them or say they deserved to die or would cause to not to help them if you could? Even if it meant you had to deny the obvious?

I think most mothers would do what Darlie Kee is doing. I don;t think that makes her white trash. I think it makes her a strong woman.

 

[Becba]

Just wanted to bring up something about bruises.

When you bruise the blood drains into the soft tissue. It is easier to bruise in certain areas than others.
I never bruise on my stomache as it has a nice layer of fat lol and the skin seems to be thicker. But my thighs and arms bruise easily. The skin under the arm is actually kind of delicate and I can see blood traveling to those spots pretty easy.
I don't find it suspicious to have bruising show up the next day or two. I don't find it suspicious the nurses did not notice the night she arrived.
I do think if the bruises were from a door she would have a mark that night.
The bruises may very well have been caused by one of the kids kicking up with bare feet attempting to fend her off.
Or her reaching over the couch and attacking.
So at one time I thought the bruises stood to be testimony of an attacker and now I think it is more like testimony to her being the attacker.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I also don't blame Darlie Kee for wanting to save her daughter's life. However, her gestapo tactics turn a lot of people off (including one-time supporters). There are ways of getting people to listen to you and to want to help. Unfortunately for her daughter, Darlie Kee hasn't learned that lesson yet.

 

[Goody]

Just wanted to bring up something about bruises.

When you bruise the blood drains into the soft tissue. It is easier to bruise in certain areas than others.
I never bruise on my stomache as it has a nice layer of fat lol and the skin seems to be thicker. But my thighs and arms bruise easily. The skin under the arm is actually kind of delicate and I can see blood traveling to those spots pretty easy.
I don't find it suspicious to have bruising show up the next day or two. I don't find it suspicious the nurses did not notice the night she arrived.
I do think if the bruises were from a door she would have a mark that night..

I think she would have had a big rosy or pink area covering most of where the purple would later be. She didn't,so that is suspicious. Any kind of forceful injury that would create such horrific bruising should have left the very beginnings of bruising right away. Maybe the nurses would not have noticed the reddness immediately but as the day wore on they should have, At least by the second day, which should have had the redness/pinkness turning to a very rosy color preparing to go purple/blue on the third day. The fact that they didn't is suspicious, either on them or on Darlie. The fact that none of the medical people, doctors and nurses a like, and there were several, didn't notice anything happening in the coloring of her arm is even more suspicious, with most of the suspicion pointing at Darlie. Let's face it. It is not likely that every single nurse and every single doctor would band together to lie about her,and that is pretty much what it would take not to see the bruises at all for all three days. Sometimes I get distracted by that fact, but when you start picking it all apart again, it leads you right back to that point.

Would a door have left marks? Maybe it did. There are those three strange looking marks near her elbow bend. Some have called them fingernail marks but I think they are probably too small. Those photos give a distorted view of the size, esp after they have been enlarged. The question I have about my own theory of the door (and I know I am not the only one who has come up with it) is that I cannot account for how the upper portion of the arm is injured and not the lower part. I know Mary has said that the lower part has bruising also, but as I recall the lower portion of the arm is not bruised nearly as massively as the upper. If the upper arm took the most impact, you would think the marks, if there were any, would be on or near the shoulder area, not the bend of the elbow. Unless the door used was a closet door that allowed the body to stand outside it while arm wrapped around the door frame into the closet area. We don't have photos of the arm in the area where the door edge would have impacted it. Maybe there were slight marks that faded quickly or just weren't noticed by the photographer. If the arm was bent around the door frame, the bend of the elbow might have been pushed against the latch area, hence the little marks in the elbow bend area. Hmmm.......

The bruises may very well have been caused by one of the kids kicking up with bare feet attempting to fend her off..

Devon would not have been awake long enough to be able to fight back enough to cause that much bruising. His stab wounds penetrated too many major organs. If he was lucky, he might have gotten in only two or three good kicks. If he did, you't think he would have hit her torso a time or two and not just the arm every single time. You can tell by the blood around him that he was not up or moblle or moving and thrashing about much. He was in one position pretty much all the time.

Or her reaching over the couch and attacking..

Damon was on his stomach both times he was attacked so he could not have kicked anyone.

So at one time I thought the bruises stood to be testimony of an attacker and now I think it is more like testimony to her being the attacker.

They are certanily testimony that an attacker did NOT put them there. Unless people want to believe the guy had a fetish for arms, I can't think of even one explanation that allows them to be the result of an attack on her person, esp by a stranger.

However, there is still an element of mystery about them. As long as that mystery exists I can't say the bruises prove she attacked the boys. The blood and fiber evidence, the vacuum cleaner evidence, the sink clean up evidence, and lack of Devon's blood on the knife, lack of blood splatter on the floor where she said the knife was thrown down, etc....all of that is evidence that she is the attacker.

 

[justice2]

You mean she headed up the defense? Believe me, the prosecutors wanted nothing to do with "Mama Darlie."

Yes, defense. Sorry, brain fart.

 

[justice2]

I think that book was creating too much of a controversy, even among her own camp. The writer and publisher lives with Darin's parents or did the last time I looked up his address. I could be wrong, but I think her attys would want the internet discussions to go away and that is why we have seen so many changes of late, including the forum for her supporters drying up. Also over the years websleuthers have buddied up to people in her camp and betrayed them, probably causing some leaks that the attys did not like. It seemed like shortly after this new team came on board, the Darlies started drying up. The forum closed down, the webmaster of her site started another one and the family took over Darlie's site. Can't get any of the videos anymore. At least not on her site. I am surprised the attys let them keep any of the crime scene photos up, blown up or not, and the trial transcripts. But so far they are still available.

Well, you know I did notice a "different" web presence than the last time I surfed for stuff on Darlie, probably about 4 years ago. What are the videos you are referring to.



I don't think Mama Darlie had much to say about Darlie's defense at all. She is outspoken and defends her daughter pretty vocally, but I think she relies on Darin's lead in that dept. Or at least she did thru the trial. Just my impression though, but I wasn't there and don;t know anyone in either family or any of the LEs involved. So take it for what it is worth. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee in some places today. LOL!

Now that's interesting. I haven't noticed that before but I think you maybe onto something, her following Darin. I still think if we could figured out all the weird interpersonal relationships we would figure a lot out.



Personally I think Mama Darlie knows in her heart of hearts that Darlie is guilty but is driven to save her life. I don't blame her. I would do the same thing if it was my daughter. I can't imagine a worse position for any mother to be in and I don't envy that poor woman at all. How does she choose between her grand children and her first born? She can't, so she can only focus on Darlie right now. The boys are gone. She can't help them, but she can help Darlie. Besides helping Darlie is probably the only thing that keeps her from falling apart emotionally. Keeping her on the fight to save Darlie helps her put everything else on a shelf somewhere where she doesn't have to deal with them on a daily basis. Every strike against Darlie by the law, by the media, by the public is a strike against Mama Darlie, too. She can't help but wonder what she did so wrong to cause this. At least that is what I would do...eat that guilt up like it was my last meal.

No kids, so I can't really say what I would do, well I can, but not really qualified to.

 

[beesy]

][/color]That goes hand in hand with the forensic evidence against Darlie. She had to be stabbing overhanded.

Yeah, I was going under the assumption that since there is no evidence Devon stood up at any time, that he had to be stabbed overhanded. And despite one of Darlie's stories, Damon did not get up and walk behind her.:twocents: The most he could have done was crawl to the sofa, where the invisible handprint showed up thru Luminol, and along the floor. So he would have to be stabbed overhanded too, no matter the gender of the killer. Mainly I was just shooting down another of Chris' moronic theories i.e. Devon stood up and was stabbed by a man overhanded, unlikely

BRW, I have a bunch of good detective techniques from Mark Furhman out of the Terri Schiavo case. Darlie is almlost textbook. I will share them with you when I get a chance to type it all up. Great stuff in that book

Just give me the name. I might buy it.

Mama Darlie is a Yankee, transplanted to Texas.

Oh yeah, I forgot, bless her heart

I think Darlie Kee is a good woman who is in a horrible situation, not of her own doing. I don't think my daughter could do anything to cause me to turn against her, not even kill her own children. I would be devastated if she ever did anything like that, but my love for her would always be there. I don't think I could tell the truth if I knew the truth would end her life. If I didn't know what the truth was but only suspected it, I sure wouldn't try to find it out. Would you? Is there anything your children could do that would make you turn against them or say they deserved to die or would cause to not to help them if you could? Even if it meant you had to deny the obvious

I would still love my child and I'm sure I'd work to get him/her off of DR However, if my child would be a danger to society, like a Jeffrey Dahmer or somebody, I'd tell what I knew.

I think most mothers would do what Darlie Kee is doing. I don;t think that makes her white trash. I think it makes her a strong woman.

I meant Mama Darlie and the rest consider it white trash to have a baby killer in the family, not that Mama Darlie is supporting her.

 

[Goody]

Well, you know I did notice a "different" web presence than the last time I surfed for stuff on Darlie, probably about 4 years ago. What are the videos you are referring to..

The TV and radio interviews after the murders. The silly string video and the TV interview made directly after it, the radio show where Darin talks about regretting their living large lifestyle. He made some comment that sounded like he either knew she was guilty or regretted his part in what happened. I wish I could listen to that one again. Apparently there were a lot of TV interviews that I missed on shows like Montel, etc. I did see Leeza. I think the justicefordarlie website might still have that one available. Not sure though.

Now that's interesting. I haven't noticed that before but I think you maybe onto something, her following Darin. I still think if we could figured out all the weird interpersonal relationships we would figure a lot out..

I agree. I would love to hear what her high school friends have to say to about her now, what the neighbors who weren't loyal to her think, and what some of her friends who are loyal have to say about the evidence against her. If they can honestly say they believe her to be innocent and why.

 

[Goody]

Just give me the name. I might buy it.

Silent Witness. Mark Furhman goes into detail about how a police investigation should be worked, step by step, and why.

I would still love my child and I'm sure I'd work to get him/her off of DR However, if my child would be a danger to society, like a Jeffrey Dahmer or somebody, I'd tell what I knew.

I don't think Darlie is a danger to society. If we knew why she did what she did, it would be easier to feel confident with that...or not, depending on what the reason was.

I meant Mama Darlie and the rest consider it white trash to have a baby killer in the family, not that Mama Darlie is supporting her.

Well, it certainly could be a modern scarlet letter carved in someone's forehead, that is for sure.

I guess I misunderstood your meaning because so many have called them white trash. I don't see them in that light at all. I think they are just typical working joes in non-management positions, probably leaning a little on the poor side until Darin made more money than any of the rest of them.

I can't count how many times I have heard "trailer trash" from upper middle class folks who think anyone who lives in one is a low life, regardless of their moral attitudes. It sort of ruffles my feathers.

 

[j2mirish]

[/color]
I don't think Darlie is a danger to society. If we knew why she did what she did, it would be easier to feel confident with that...or not, depending on what the reason was.


WHO CARES IF SHE IS A DANGER AT THIS POINT--- SHE WAS CONVICTED OF STABBING TO DEATH HER 2 CHILDREN--WHY SHOULD WE CARE IF SHE CAN BE REHABILITATED???? QUITE FRANKLY--IN MY OWN MIND----IT DOESNT MATTER "WHY" SHE DID IT-------HOW CAN ANYONE FEEL "CONFIDENT" WITH UNDERSTANDING WHY SHE DID IT?????????????---THERE IS NO UNDERSTANDABLE "WHY" imo

 

[Goody]

I don't think Darlie is a danger to society. If we knew why she did what she did, it would be easier to feel confident with that...or not, depending on what the reason was.


WHO CARES IF SHE IS A DANGER AT THIS POINT--- SHE WAS CONVICTED OF STABBING TO DEATH HER 2 CHILDREN--WHY SHOULD WE CARE IF SHE CAN BE REHABILITATED???? QUITE FRANKLY--IN MY OWN MIND----IT DOESNT MATTER "WHY" SHE DID IT-------HOW CAN ANYONE FEEL "CONFIDENT" WITH UNDERSTANDING WHY SHE DID IT?????????????---THERE IS NO UNDERSTANDABLE "WHY" imo
[/color]

I guess that depends on how you define "understand."

 

[j2mirish]

goody:
I don't think Darlie is a danger to society. If we knew why she did what she did, it would be easier to feel confident with that...or not, depending on what the reason was.

J2m
WHO CARES IF SHE IS A DANGER AT THIS POINT--- SHE WAS CONVICTED OF STABBING TO DEATH HER 2 CHILDREN--WHY SHOULD WE CARE IF SHE CAN BE REHABILITATED???? QUITE FRANKLY--IN MY OWN MIND----IT DOESNT MATTER "WHY" SHE DID IT-------HOW CAN ANYONE FEEL "CONFIDENT" WITH UNDERSTANDING WHY SHE DID IT?????????????---THERE IS NO UNDERSTANDABLE "WHY" imo
Goody:
I guess that depends on how you define "understand."



J2m--I still dont understand what there is that needs to be UNDERSTOOD- all the why's, reasons, etc..etc..etc.. dont change the fact she killed her children, then denied it. Insane, depressed...financially strapped....tired....whatever anyone wants to apply--- it just doesnt matter, nor will it bring the children back if "they" figure it out.