Darlie's injuries

[Goody]

You say she didn't wet the towels enough to even get them dripping. ok if she's lying, why, whats she covering or cleaning. She ran back and forth thru out the crime scene. Trace the paths she took and look for clean up or something none of us is seeing, or seeing and not tying in into the case.

She is trying to hide the fact that she stood at that sink and cut her throat. She is trying to hide the fact that she rinsed the knife off at that sink before she cut her throat. Look around at the floor. There are big round blood drops that show she stood there for some time without moving much. If she had been wetting towels, water would have dripped into the blood and watered it down, but there is no watery looking blood anywhere in the pictures.

And to the idea that water dripping from the towels could have washed blood drops away entirely or footprints (which is what they found with Amido black) is silly. She would have had to pour water onto them to wash all traces of them away and even then, the edges that managed to dry probably would have had to be rubbed with a towel or something to make them disappear. The only way the footprints disappeared was with someone wiping them away with a towel or rag. I think it shows that she initially tried to clean up the footprints and then realized she couldn't because she just kept bleeding on top of what she was cleaning, so she had to abandon the effort. That is probably when she decided to start staging for an intruder.

If she was going there after the fact and she is guilty , she would be looking for something she thinks is damming. Other wise why run around bleeding. What was her purpose in these movements and what was she looking for? In other words she had to have some purpose for her movements. I don't mind people taking a stance one way or other on this case . Expound upon your theory please . There has to be some more rhyme and reason to her movements if she is guilty-you say she is engaging in cover-up, .......

Good question. One I ponder from time to time. It directly conflicts Darin's original statements that all he could see was the top of her head in the kitchen as she talked to 911. He said he was listening to find out what had happened. Later he said that she was bringing him towels for Devon and made three or four trips into the family room. Both can't be true. Her blood everywhere is not consistent with his original statements. At least not that I recall.

 

[beesy]

No Beesy, I am meaning the blood drips on the pillow that was belonging to Devon. It was a pillow with the cartoon people on it. Close to the body of Devon and it has blood on it and the blood is from Darlie and there is also more blood drips here and there around him and also Damon that have to be from Darlie and there is Darlie blood on the clothing of Damon on the back

Yes, the Power Rangers pillow. You know I have a hard time wading through all of that trial testimony. I can't ever find what I need and I don't understand half of it anyway. Do you know where it is?

Blood drips. she would have to be right there close to get the drips on his clothing. So I can not see that it can be said that she did not go near them. There is only the word of Waddel that she did nothing to help her children and he was not there that many minutes. I do not say he does not tell the truth as he sees it but he does not spend his time looking at Darlie. He is a policeman and he has to check out things and watch all around for danger. But he know nothing of what she might have done for the children before he gets there. IMO only I think by the time he get there she is too much of a victim in herself to do much. You can see that she have lose a large amount of blood and it must be taking effect I think.[/

There is only the word of a convicted killer and her supportive(still) husband against a trained professional.
I know there was an exchange of blood. That's not surprising considering she killed them. And as she was stabbing Damon, she probably leaned over him, so no surprise there either

 

[Goody]

Yes Beesy I understand all this. But cast off can come from many things as you say. It does not have to be just as this Bevel demonstrates he can produce it. there are many other ways to get cast off as you yourself have pointed out. And that was the point I was tryng to get across.

You say that but you can't prove it. Bevel at least was able to prove his theory. He showed exactly how the blood from the knife got on her shirt where it did and as it did. I would be happy if you could just show us one other way the blood on her shirt could be duplicated. You can't just wave your hand and say, "O, blood like that can get on the shirt in many ways," to discount evidence as important as the blood evidence on her shirt. You are truly looking for truth as you say, then you should study enough to understand exactly what that blood evidence means and why it is so important.

 

[beesy]

Yes Beesy I understand all this. But cast off can come from many things as you say. It does not have to be just as this Bevel demonstrates he can produce it. there are many other ways to get cast off as you yourself have pointed out. And that was the point I was tryng to get across.

No, the only way to get cast-off is from a bloody object strikes a bleeding object and comes up again for another hit. That is what cast-off is. That is the only way cast-off can get on anything. It can be created by different items, but it is always created the same way. Forget what Bevel said, take a look at some photos of cast-off and then look at the back of her nightshirt. Damon was stabbed with a bloody knife. As the bloody knife hit him and was raised up again by his killer it sprayed his blood on the back of the killer's clothing and the wall. If Damon had been clubbed to death, then the cast-off would have been created by the club. Cast-off is called cast-off because it is CAST-OFF by the murder weapon as it plunges back and forth into the victim. It cannot be caused by running by, dropping a weapon, no other way
Snooty, this is what I was talking about before. You support Darlie and you will not even believe the definition of a very common blood spatter pattern because it implicates Darlie. I'll bet you everything I own that if cast-off blood had been found on Darin's back or the fella down the road's back, you'd believe it in a heartbeat. You'd be saying exactly what I am saying.

 

[SnootyVixen]

I suppose the police took sink apart and had had the contents of the P TRAP checked and collected for evidence. If they suspected a clean up the p trap would hold the only samples not diluted into the rest of the sewer system.
This could cinch their case proving Darlie rinsed Devons blood off the knife. An intruder wouldn't do this, rinse off the knife. Like Bugle Boys, 2x4's and alQueda.

The police did collect this but they did not test it and so did not introduce it into the evidence at trial. If I am incorrect about this someone please correct me but I do believe this is the correct information and was, in fact, said so by one of the criminalologists.

 

[Goody]

I suppose the police took sink apart and had had the contents of the P TRAP checked and collected for evidence. If they suspected a clean up the p trap would hold the only samples not diluted into the rest of the sewer system.
This could cinch their case proving Darlie rinsed Devons blood off the knife. An intruder wouldn't do this, rinse off the knife. Like Bugle Boys, 2x4's and alQueda.

The police did collect this but they did not test it and so did not introduce it into the evidence at trial. If I am incorrect about this someone please correct me but I do believe this is the correct information and was, in fact, said so by one of the criminalologists.

The police did test the blood in the sink and the pipes. Water had washed most of it away but they found a trace of one boy's blood in the drain, I think, and the other on the sink. They found Darlie's blood in the pipes. It is in the trial testimony.

 

[SnootyVixen]

No, the only way to get cast-off is from a bloody object strikes a bleeding object and comes up again for another hit. That is what cast-off is. That is the only way cast-off can get on anything. It can be created by different items, but it is always created the same way. Forget what Bevel said, take a look at some photos of cast-off and then look at the back of her nightshirt. Damon was stabbed with a bloody knife. As the bloody knife hit him and was raised up again by his killer it sprayed his blood on the back of the killer's clothing and the wall. If Damon had been clubbed to death, then the cast-off would have been created by the club. Cast-off is called cast-off because it is CAST-OFF by the murder weapon as it plunges back and forth into the victim. It cannot be caused by running by, dropping a weapon, no other way

No, and I never did say it could. I know what cast off is. What I was tryint to get across was that the cast off blood drop on the back of Darlie's shirt could have come some other way than by her holding a knife in her hand and raising it to stab her son. In other words someone else may have been holding the stabbing knife. I do not know what the truth here is but what I am trying my best to say as clearly as I can is that one cast off drop on the back of her shirt only means that a cast off droplet fell there. It, in and of itself, does not tell us anything more regardless of the tests that the tester Bevel did. He was able to make a similar droplet while making stabbing motions. Someone standing over her with a bloody knife and making a slinging motion downward may or may not have been able to create the same sort of cast off. We do not know all there is to know about this and to just assume that because the droplet is there it automatically means she was stabbing Damon MAY not be the truth. I am not saying it absolutely is not the truth, just that it may not be.


Snooty, this is what I was talking about before. You support Darlie and you will not even believe the definition of a very common blood spatter pattern because it implicates Darlie. I'll bet you everything I own that if cast-off blood had been found on Darin's back or the fella down the road's back, you'd believe it in a heartbeat. You'd be saying exactly what I am saying.

This is not true Beesy. I like to think that I look at each peice of evidence in this case from all angles and question it whenever I can think of other reasons to explain how it could have come into being.
You owe me everything you own. And also, please to remember that I have never said that cast off blood was not found on the back of Darlie's shirt. I know it was, everyone knows it was. But I must say that I do need a refresher on the cast off of Damon's blood that was found on a wall for I do not remember that. Can you tell me more about that?

 

[beesy]

Yes but water running shows that any blood from her or from the towels would have been rinsed away by the flow of the water left running. Thats why I was asking if blood or Luminol made have shown the vortex pattern inside the sink- you said no blood there so that ends my question about the contents of the sink. The sink still bugs me though cause its got to be where she rinsed out the blood from Devon since only 1 knife was used and the bathroom sink wasn't used

Do you know what Luminol is? The sink glowed with the ghost blood when the Luminol was sprayed into it, meaning there was blood in the sink at one time and it had been wiped away! You cannot test glowing blood. It is not really there anymore. It is a ghost.

I suppose the police took sink apart and had had the contents of the P TRAP checked and collected for evidence. If they suspected a clean up the p trap would hold the only samples not diluted into the rest of the sewer system.
This could cinch their case proving Darlie rinsed Devons blood off the knife. An intruder wouldn't do this, rinse off the knife. Like Bugle Boys, 2x4's and alQue

I'm sure they did. They did not suspect a cleanup, they had evidence of a clean up. An intruder doesn't rinse off blood you say? He doesn't wipe off the counter, inside the sink, places on the floor, or vanish into the night through a locked gate without tripping a motion dectecter which stayed on for 18 mins. either. You have got to step back and look at the whole picture. There is no way anybody can explain away all of the evidence, not only the forensics, but just the plain ol' common sense evidence. How the heck did the guy get through that garage without breaking a leg? Have you seen the pictures of that garage? Animal cages everywhere, one in front of the window.

You say she didn't wet the towels enough to even get them dripping. ok if she's lying, why, whats she covering or cleaning. She ran back and forth thru out the crime scene. Trace the paths she took and look for clean up or something none of us is seeing, or seeing and not tying in into the case

None of us? None of us!? Who none of us? You and Snooty. I believe the specialists. I believe them when they say that places in the kitchen glowed from the wiped up blood. I cannot convince you to believe them. I cannot show you the ghost blood. I, nor you, knows how many times Darlie ran back and forth. We cannot count the number of footprints. Cleaning blood up at all should be enough for anybody to pause and think about it. The only way around the cleaned up blood is to say LE is lying.

If she was going there after the fact and she is guilty , she would be looking for something she thinks is damming. Other wise why run around bleeding. What was her purpose in these movements and what was she looking for? In other words she had to have some purpose for her movements. I don't mind people taking a stance one way or other on this case . Expound upon your theory please . There has to be some more rhyme and reason to her movements if she is guilty-you say she is engaging in cover-up

I have expounded on my theory. She was trying to clean up her blood in and around the sink. She cut her throat over the sink and knew that her blood was not supposed to be there. She did not have hours to spend on this. Yes, she missed places. She was bleeding and screaming into the phone while she was doing most of this, or even all of it. Many people think she might have been injured by Devon during the attack on him. Nobody took pictures of her naked. I'm sure they were willing to, but they didn't. So if she thought he had bruised her or maybe her arm was cut during the struggle with him, she would have to become a victim. At some point, she noticed Damon was still alive and attacked him the 2nd time. So there are plenty of reasons right there for her to be running around. She probably did not use her bathroom sink because she thought it was too pretty, I'm only half-kidding

Please I sense despair and your own loss for the boys. They did not die alone in the arms of a stranger. The person holding Damon was only someone he hadn't met yet and that person the paramedic, he was not alone there either. Standing with them both , with his arms outstretched was Jesus. The way these boys died is horrible but the promise of everlasting life is the only hope I or anyone else has of ever seeing them again. Believe, God would not despair these boys in their hour of need. His grace fell upon Damon and lessened his pain and he sent a very special person to be with him before he died. I have the greatest respect for the jobs the medical personnel did on the scene. No one, no one could have done better. Even the people these boys touched after death are victims of this crime too. We all feel "Survivors Guilt

Don't start on that please. You have no idea what religion people are or if they are religious at all.

It wasn't you who wrote it but another poster had broght up the fact that the towels being wet is in itself a cover up which is what i'm asking If the towels weren't for the boys and used to wipe up blood, where besides the counter do you find swipes, wipes, swirls, anything...... she couldn't clean it all up she had to have left more than a trace somewhere. Did she use bleach like suspected in the Peterson case-that destroys blood I've been told.

Nothing can hide blood from Luminol because it shows the presense of blood, the actual blood is gone. Of course cleaning it with bleach will make it invisible to the naked eye, but it can still be detected.
The towels were not wet. Why isn't one wipe, swipe, swirl enough? Why do there have to be 10 or 20 of them? One shows a clean up. There were many more than one of course, but you only need one. I'm going to call the nut house and have them pick me up now. I'd like to thank you and Snooty for putting me there. :bang:

 

[beesy]

The police did test the blood in the sink and the pipes. Water had washed most of it away but they found a trace of one boy's blood in the drain, I think, and the other on the sink. They found Darlie's blood in the pipes. It is in the trial testimony.

Bless you, dear Goody. Remind of this and of your confirmation that Darlie said she was laying on her right side if I ever get smart with you again. Maybe I should print it out and tack it to the wall.

 

[beesy]

Good question. One I ponder from time to time. It directly conflicts Darin's original statements that all he could see was the top of her head in the kitchen as she talked to 911. He said he was listening to find out what had happened. Later he said that she was bringing him towels for Devon and made three or four trips into the family room. Both can't be true. Her blood everywhere is not consistent with his original statements. At least not that I recall.

I always find that a funny image, Darlie's blond head running around. Is the kitchen bar that high or was it because he was sitting, kneeling, squatting?

 

[deanws]

Nothing can hide blood from Luminol because it shows the presense of blood, the actual blood is gone. Of course cleaning it with bleach will make it invisible to the naked eye, but it can still be detected.
The towels were not wet. Why isn't one wipe, swipe, swirl enough? Why do there have to be 10 or 20 of them? One shows a clean up. There were many more than one of course, but you only need one. I'm going to call the nut house and have them pick me up now. I'd like to thank you and Snooty for putting me there. :bang:

Some posts are just not worth answering. SOS over and over again.

 

[beesy]

Some posts are just not worth answering. SOS over and over again.

:bang: Well, I called and the little men in white are on their way to cart beesy off.

 

[SnootyVixen]

You say that but you can't prove it. Bevel at least was able to prove his theory. He showed exactly how the blood from the knife got on her shirt where it did and as it did. I would be happy if you could just show us one other way the blood on her shirt could be duplicated. You can't just wave your hand and say, "O, blood like that can get on the shirt in many ways," to discount evidence as important as the blood evidence on her shirt. You are truly looking for truth as you say, then you should study enough to understand exactly what that blood evidence means and why it is so important.

As should you Miss Goody.

 

[feenix]

What's with ?

Err, could it be because of your Arnie Schwartzenneger line in your last post (which you have now deleted)? ............. "but I will be back. I am not finished with this post" :doh:

Hey, we all get confused when Jane talks of huts, snakes, survival, cowboys, indians, bears, blood, swirling, bruises blah blah blah .........!! :banghead:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana we do know that she did get close to them both and spent some time close to them because we can see the blood from her that has deposited itself around the little boys. Look at the pillow of Devon and you will see blood drops of Darlie on it. And there was blood from Darlie on the clothing of Damon and around him also. And I think that most have agreed that the blood in the room came from Darlie so it follows that the blood near the boys would be some of hers no?

Of course it is. She didn't stab them from across the room.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Please I sense despair and your own loss for the boys. They did not die alone in the arms of a stranger. The person holding Damon was only someone he hadn't met yet and that person the paramedic, he was not alone there either. Standing with them both , with his arms outstretched was Jesus. The way these boys died is horrible but the promise of everlasting life is the only hope I or anyone else has of ever seeing them again. Believe, God would not despair these boys in their hour of need. His grace fell upon Damon and lessened his pain and he sent a very special person to be with him before he died. I have the greatest respect for the jobs the medical personnel did on the scene. No one, no one could have done better. Even the people these boys touched after death are victims of this crime too. We all feel "Survivors Guilt"

What a beautiful thing to say!!! I agree that the boys are in the arms of angels now and I also thank you for what you said about the medical personnel. I can't imagine what it must have been like for them to try and save the boys. Heartbreaking!!

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Some posts are just not worth answering. SOS over and over again.

I'm asking because I think the more evidence you have that is forensic in nature is more damming to darlie. 1 may be enough but 2 shows clear intent, 3 shows even more. 1 could be accidental but 2 shows no way it was an accident. Just trying to make sense of the crime scene evidence.
The pro=darlie's couldn't say it was judgement of her behavior, lies or anything else- blood swipes, swirls, etc. Those things don't have emotions, they are simply what they are. I'm not trying to confuse anyone here. Just trying to keep the info in correct order, look at the evidence and make a judgement based solely on that.
This case gives me a headache too.

If we learn anything from this case we should all agree that the police, labs, investigators etc should be given a lot more access to funds, to prove or disprove their investigations and to make sure a killer like this, or their accomplices, never walk free amoung us. The crime victims deserve it, the families derserve it and the police deserve that kind of support.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Bless you, dear Goody. Remind of this and of your confirmation that Darlie said she was laying on her right side if I ever get smart with you again. Maybe I should print it out and tack it to the wall.

the trial testimony makes my head start swwimming but I'm glad you found it.


OK this is good info.


We have Darlie's blood in the sink, and in the p trap. We have both boys blood in the area.
Does Darin ever say she traded out towels if not there is no way she could have gotton the boys blood into the sink AREA let alone the sink unless........
What is her story or is this a part that keeps changing.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

What a beautiful thing to say!!! I agree that the boys are in the arms of angels now and I also thank you for what you said about the medical personnel. I can't imagine what it must have been like for them to try and save the boys. Heartbreaking!!

God sends special people to us in our lives and if I ever meet them I would shake the hands of all the medical personnell who tried so hard to help the boys. They do a great job on a daily basis for people who need them. Paramedics and ambulance workers are dedicated, and in my book very special people.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm asking because I think the more evidence you have that is forensic in nature is more damming to darlie. 1 may be enough but 2 shows clear intent, 3 shows even more. 1 could be accidental but 2 shows no way it was an accident. Just trying to make sense of the crime scene evidence.
The pro=darlie's couldn't say it was judgement of her behavior, lies or anything else- blood swipes, swirls, etc. Those things don't have emotions, they are simply what they are. I'm not trying to confuse anyone here. Just trying to keep the info in correct order, look at the evidence and make a judgement based solely on that.
This case gives me a headache too.

If we learn anything from this case we should all agree that the police, labs, investigators etc should be given a lot more access to funds, to prove or disprove their investigations and to make sure a killer like this, or their accomplices, never walk free amoung us. The crime victims deserve it, the families derserve it and the police deserve that kind of support.

There was no lack of funding in this case. Most criminal defendants DREAM about having the investigation, personnel and legal team that Darlie had. She'll need to find something else to complain about in this department.