Day 3 SBTC - The 12 Days of JonBenet
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cattlekate
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In the last S.B.T.C. thread, posters mentioned Signed By The Captain, linking it to the movie Crimson Tide. Posters pointed out Gene Hackman played a Captain Ramsey. And there is kind of a resemblance between Gene Hackman's movie poster image and John Ramsey.
The movie was released in May 1995 so it fits the time frame where it could have been viewed by the author before she wrote the ransom note in December, 1996.
I tried to watch the bad bootleg version on youtube but fell asleep so I missed any signed by the captain reference. If any posters know of the time mark where the reference is made - please post it!
(Although I've always believed it meant Saved By The Cross, I found this Captain Ramsey link to be very very interesting.)
The movie was released in May 1995 so it fits the time frame where it could have been viewed by the author before she wrote the ransom note in December, 1996.
I tried to watch the bad bootleg version on youtube but fell asleep so I missed any signed by the captain reference. If any posters know of the time mark where the reference is made - please post it!
(Although I've always believed it meant Saved By The Cross, I found this Captain Ramsey link to be very very interesting.)
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Before this gets out of hand let me explain again.
At Websleuths we have never allowed posters to bring wild theories to any case. We have never allowed posters to point fingers at people who were NEVER suspects. We never allowed any of these things except on one forum. The JonBenet Forum.
Why in the world would I as the forum owner make an exception and allow scenarios to be discussed that have ZERO evidence behind them. Why would I allow innocent people like FW or Santa to be accused of horrible things when there is NO Evidence.
All I was doing was allowing the Ramsey Spin Team to use Websleuths to continue their outrageous theories on the case. I was helping the Ramseys by letting people discuss these so called theories and therefore giving the theories credence.
All I have done is applied the same rules that we use on all the other forums.
Until there is real evidence, not made up by Michael Tracey, Mills, and the Ramseys, we will only discuss the people in the house that night because they are the only suspects in the case.
If that changes we will allow any reasonable discussion concerning the new evidence.
Here is the thing, you can disagree with the evidence but you have to have something solid to back it up. You can't say something is a fact without something to back up your statement. The backup has to be from a legitimate source. That doesn't mean a 20000-word dissertation on the DNA. The "intruder" DNA is a red herring. It means NOTHING. You have intruder DNA in your underpants, under your fingernails, all over your clothing. t
The DNA in the Ramsey case is not blood, not flesh, it's degraded or it's the type of DNA that comes in new packages of underwear.
The DNA has nothing to do with this case. I am basing my opinion on the opinions of the experts who know more than me.
The JonBenet Ramsey case is like no other case on this forum but I will not allow misrepresentations and out and out lies to be posted for the benefit of the Ramseys.
Thank you.
Tricia
At Websleuths we have never allowed posters to bring wild theories to any case. We have never allowed posters to point fingers at people who were NEVER suspects. We never allowed any of these things except on one forum. The JonBenet Forum.
Why in the world would I as the forum owner make an exception and allow scenarios to be discussed that have ZERO evidence behind them. Why would I allow innocent people like FW or Santa to be accused of horrible things when there is NO Evidence.
All I was doing was allowing the Ramsey Spin Team to use Websleuths to continue their outrageous theories on the case. I was helping the Ramseys by letting people discuss these so called theories and therefore giving the theories credence.
All I have done is applied the same rules that we use on all the other forums.
Until there is real evidence, not made up by Michael Tracey, Mills, and the Ramseys, we will only discuss the people in the house that night because they are the only suspects in the case.
If that changes we will allow any reasonable discussion concerning the new evidence.
Here is the thing, you can disagree with the evidence but you have to have something solid to back it up. You can't say something is a fact without something to back up your statement. The backup has to be from a legitimate source. That doesn't mean a 20000-word dissertation on the DNA. The "intruder" DNA is a red herring. It means NOTHING. You have intruder DNA in your underpants, under your fingernails, all over your clothing. t
The DNA in the Ramsey case is not blood, not flesh, it's degraded or it's the type of DNA that comes in new packages of underwear.
The DNA has nothing to do with this case. I am basing my opinion on the opinions of the experts who know more than me.
The JonBenet Ramsey case is like no other case on this forum but I will not allow misrepresentations and out and out lies to be posted for the benefit of the Ramseys.
Thank you.
Tricia
jillyr1059
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cattlekate
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After perusing the one Crimson Tide script I could find online, there wasn't any "signed by the captain" verbiage. Maybe it was in an image.
But the search did lead me to some old posts about yacht racing. John Ramsey sailed although I don't know if he had a "yacht." Also, Patsy mentioned Burke was taking sailing lessons in one of her Christmas letters.
Looking up yacht racing, the word "victory" appears a lot. Hmmmm.......... Could a possibility be Victory! Signed by the captain? Maybe another snark against John?
But the search did lead me to some old posts about yacht racing. John Ramsey sailed although I don't know if he had a "yacht." Also, Patsy mentioned Burke was taking sailing lessons in one of her Christmas letters.
Looking up yacht racing, the word "victory" appears a lot. Hmmmm.......... Could a possibility be Victory! Signed by the captain? Maybe another snark against John?
Unconsciously saying, "Son Began the Crime" ? Or.......Son, Burke the Criminal? Or ...She Botched the Crime? She Birthed The Criminal? So Beautiful in The Crown? So Bad to Kids? Actually, I do think it was a random choice that sounded official, or plausible to PR while writing the note.
eileenhawkeye
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Maybe SBTC was a message from Patsy to God?
And, Patsy and John would have been aware of those things. Patsy would have been mid-20s when the radical movements were out and about. And a journalism major.
I think this is important. When people try to blame outside forces for their own acts, they tend to play on popular fears. Susan Smith claim a black gangbanger-type carjacked her with her boys in the car. OJ Simpson blamed Nicole's death on South American drug cartels. This note plays on fears of child kidnapping and international terrorism.
otg
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Since one of my posts may have contributed to a situation here, Id like to explain something for those who dont know or might have forgotten. Its not pertinent to the case we discuss, so if anyone is not interested, just scroll and roll.
I pretty much dont care what someone posts even if I disagree vehemently with what they say. I dont mind defending my theories or beliefs, and think that discussing opposing views is helpful and even enjoyable.
But in the past, this forum was disrupted by more than just any one poster with senseless posts made simply to cause problems. I dont know the reasons -- I dont care the reasons. But it certainly appeared to be simply to discourage any serious discussion that might in any way be negative about the Ramsey family. Many of the posts caused some very good posters to get discouraged and leave or stop posting, and those posts created a lot of discord amongst those who would like to discuss things in a respectful debate. Not only was it becoming a hostile environment, it caused the overworked and unpaid (I understand) volunteer moderators a lot of grief and extra work reading and deleting flagged posts and issuing warnings to everyone. It even caused some pretty good threads to be locked from further discussion.
It was allowed to go on because of unrelated circumstances created by someone who tried to steal ownership of this forum from the person who founded and grew it to what it is today. Some of those very posters who created this discord took sides with the person trying to steal it and even wrote silly little taunts under their username by declaring where they stood. Then when it was settled in court and returned 100% to its rightful owner, they claimed they were only an innocent bystander who had been duped by the person they had sided with. And once it was settled, Tricia laid down the law with her post explaining the rules. I bumped that post because I could see that same old thing starting up again, even though it was at first fairly innocuous (everyone in the world knows the Ramsey's didn't do it). Believe me -- it would have gotten worse if it wasnt nipped in the bud (as my mom always said). It isnt that only one view is accepted here, its just that only serious discussion is appreciated on this forum (IMHO).
I love this forum and the people who post here (even if we disagree at times). I dont want to see it trashed. Its my home (even if I occasionally visit other places). I still believe that nearly everyone who comes here (except for Woody and Jammie) sincerely want to see some kind of justice (whatever that justice might be) or at least some kind of resolution to the mystery behind the tragic loss of JonBenets promising life which was stolen from her much too soon.
(Anyway... Thats my story and Im sticking to it. :lol
I pretty much dont care what someone posts even if I disagree vehemently with what they say. I dont mind defending my theories or beliefs, and think that discussing opposing views is helpful and even enjoyable.
But in the past, this forum was disrupted by more than just any one poster with senseless posts made simply to cause problems. I dont know the reasons -- I dont care the reasons. But it certainly appeared to be simply to discourage any serious discussion that might in any way be negative about the Ramsey family. Many of the posts caused some very good posters to get discouraged and leave or stop posting, and those posts created a lot of discord amongst those who would like to discuss things in a respectful debate. Not only was it becoming a hostile environment, it caused the overworked and unpaid (I understand) volunteer moderators a lot of grief and extra work reading and deleting flagged posts and issuing warnings to everyone. It even caused some pretty good threads to be locked from further discussion.
It was allowed to go on because of unrelated circumstances created by someone who tried to steal ownership of this forum from the person who founded and grew it to what it is today. Some of those very posters who created this discord took sides with the person trying to steal it and even wrote silly little taunts under their username by declaring where they stood. Then when it was settled in court and returned 100% to its rightful owner, they claimed they were only an innocent bystander who had been duped by the person they had sided with. And once it was settled, Tricia laid down the law with her post explaining the rules. I bumped that post because I could see that same old thing starting up again, even though it was at first fairly innocuous (everyone in the world knows the Ramsey's didn't do it). Believe me -- it would have gotten worse if it wasnt nipped in the bud (as my mom always said). It isnt that only one view is accepted here, its just that only serious discussion is appreciated on this forum (IMHO).
I love this forum and the people who post here (even if we disagree at times). I dont want to see it trashed. Its my home (even if I occasionally visit other places). I still believe that nearly everyone who comes here (except for Woody and Jammie) sincerely want to see some kind of justice (whatever that justice might be) or at least some kind of resolution to the mystery behind the tragic loss of JonBenets promising life which was stolen from her much too soon.
(Anyway... Thats my story and Im sticking to it. :lol
cattlekate
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Yup. Thank you otg.
WhoKnowsWhat
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John sailed in the Big Macinaw race and Fleet White taught him to sail. John had his own sailboat which be named Grand Season.
Riversinthedesert
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I always suspected SBTC meant Saved By The Cross. I was stunned to see the photo taken by Judith Phillips of Patsy with the cross in her mouth, and by Judith's statement that Patsy believed she was cured by the cross. It absolutely clicked. Followed by the word "Victory," I believe it repesented her victory over death, by the cross.
That might also explain why the cover-up. If I'd just fought so hard for my life, I wouldn't want to spend any of it in a cell.
DeDee
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JR also owned the yacht the "Miss America" at some point during their years in Charlevoix.
madeleine
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Since one of my posts may have contributed to a situation here, Id like to explain something for those who dont know or might have forgotten. Its not pertinent to the case we discuss, so if anyone is not interested, just scroll and roll.
I pretty much dont care what someone posts even if I disagree vehemently with what they say. I dont mind defending my theories or beliefs, and think that discussing opposing views is helpful and even enjoyable.
But in the past, this forum was disrupted by more than just any one poster with senseless posts made simply to cause problems. I dont know the reasons -- I dont care the reasons. But it certainly appeared to be simply to discourage any serious discussion that might in any way be negative about the Ramsey family. Many of the posts caused some very good posters to get discouraged and leave or stop posting, and those posts created a lot of discord amongst those who would like to discuss things in a respectful debate. Not only was it becoming a hostile environment, it caused the overworked and unpaid (I understand) volunteer moderators a lot of grief and extra work reading and deleting flagged posts and issuing warnings to everyone. It even caused some pretty good threads to be locked from further discussion.
It was allowed to go on because of unrelated circumstances created by someone who tried to steal ownership of this forum from the person who founded and grew it to what it is today. Some of those very posters who created this discord took sides with the person trying to steal it and even wrote silly little taunts under their username by declaring where they stood. Then when it was settled in court and returned 100% to its rightful owner, they claimed they were only an innocent bystander who had been duped by the person they had sided with. And once it was settled, Tricia laid down the law with her post explaining the rules. I bumped that post because I could see that same old thing starting up again, even though it was at first fairly innocuous (everyone in the world knows the Ramsey's didn't do it). Believe me -- it would have gotten worse if it wasnt nipped in the bud (as my mom always said). It isnt that only one view is accepted here, its just that only serious discussion is appreciated on this forum (IMHO).
I love this forum and the people who post here (even if we disagree at times). I dont want to see it trashed. Its my home (even if I occasionally visit other places). I still believe that nearly everyone who comes here (except for Woody and Jammie) sincerely want to see some kind of justice (whatever that justice might be) or at least some kind of resolution to the mystery behind the tragic loss of JonBenets promising life which was stolen from her much too soon.
(Anyway... Thats my story and Im sticking to it. :lol
thank you.
Irish_Eyes
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I'll give you my SBTC theory in a sec, but I just wanted to say that I respect your post Airasae, and I'm another who tends to be a fence-sitter and prefers a wider discourse, so long as it is civil and there are consistent boundaries. (And I know we're all very affected by certain cases. Despite what I just said above, I probably would have made a rule like this for the poor McStay family if I'd had the power. So I do get it.)
SBTC? I posted on the "old" thread dedicated to this that I think it's just something lame like "SomeBody That Cares." It wouldn't surprise me if it was just "Sierra Bravo Tango Charlie," that sounds all action-adventure like but is otherwise just nonsense. I played around with something that ended with "This Christmas" just because of the timing but I can't really say I figured out anything that felt like a fit in context with the rest of the letter.