DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #15

[facundo]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...gueroa-murdered-Daron-Wint-Arrested-15/page19

Wriiten by rkf yesterday. For me, puts into a nutshell what the problem is in this picture.

Lying IS a huge character flaw. Excusing this in one's personal life is risky. IMO.

I'm not defending LW but lying is far more common than discussions here seem to indicate. Lying in one's personal life, although risky, is among the most common of lies, e.g. "I bought the dress on sale, honey; that dress looks great on you, no it doesn't make you look fat." These lies seem insignificant and are dismissed as fibs, but when they lead one to say "that blond hair on my lapel must have come from a woman on the elevator, it is deception. Deception leads to suspicion and that is where JW finds himself today. He lied about small stuff and now he is suspect for the big stuff.

 

[Paulas88]

I finally watched the CNN special. More depressing and slightly frustrating than informative if you've been following this case.

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I still do not believe that JW is cleared of any involvement. I am more inclined to believe he is working with LE and they have determined that his involvement is not hands-on in the murder. In fact, the language "did not commit this crime" is very specific. I still very much believe he might have been voluntold what his role would be. This special changes none of that. He's got a lot bigger issues than what a gal on the west coast speculates on a chat room, and my heart is squarely with the family, so I am not too worried about hurting his feelings right now. LE is not stupid. They outed him for a reason.

kammiemc, wouldn't he have been arrested by now?

 

[jjenny]

Police never called JW a suspect, so what is he suspected of?
Police questioned him right after this horrible incident, he could have been very stressed and rattled.
It was his right to refuse to talk to police, but he didn't.
I fail to understand why police had to put out there that he lied to them.
If he isn't involved, then it's not going to do anyone any good.

 

[nikki80]

People suspect him of being involved in some way. Lying makes you suspicious.

 

[stmarysmead]

kammiemc, wouldn't he have been arrested by now?

I don't think that logic works (though it should)...because, by the same token, the people with Wint during his arrest, some that were helping him convert the ransom into money orders, etc...have not, to our knowledge, been arrested either.

JW with his girlfriends help, appears to be very media savvy. He seems to have a supportive middle class family. Yet no attorney has spoken up demanding he be cleared...no "spokesman" for the family has said one word in his defense.

I'm not going to let MSM be my source. I'll wait for LE.

 

[Keefer]

JW's lawyer and the DA are possibly hashing out a deal or more likely already have one in place. He may be charged with a much lesser crime if he testifies agaisnt DW. He might get complete immunity. We don't know.
To understand this crime with our very limited resources we must focus on DW. Why would he need to torture Philip ? Understand why people are tortured. I believe the 40k to be a red herring. It might not be presented this way at trial but it is my belief.

 

[BondGirl]

Police never called JW a suspect, so what is he suspected of?
Police questioned him right after this horrible incident, he could have been very stressed and rattled.
It was his right to refuse to talk to police, but he didn't.
I fail to understand why police had to put out there that he lied to them.
If he isn't involved, then it's not going to do anyone any good.

LE did not have to put it out. Why did they? There is a reason. Makes me suspicious.

 

[HastingsChi]

On the CNN report last night, it was reported that the killer took pride in what he did to this family. I don't want to even speculate why that was reported. What we know is bad enough...

It's very important to consider the source; CNN's reporting of this tragedy has been full of errors and unsubstantiated rumours.

 

[FelicityLemon]

JW lied to police. Stupid move, but he did it and it's continuing to be discussed which is to be expected. What I don't understand is the complete scrutinization and trashing of his life. I say trashing because there's a huge difference between clinically and factually discussing his choices, his behavior in texts with his employers, and social media concerning his employers cars and making fun of him.

People have been extremely unkind. We don't know the relationship between SS, the family and JW. People denigrate him for his casual communications. People condemn him for his funny postings of his "sweet office of the day", etc. and posting pics of his employers' cars. We don't know that SS wasn't as casual or expedient in his own communications with JW.

SS was an intelligent adult, experienced business owner and employer. If he had a problem with JW posting those pics and comments on SM or JW's manner of communication with himself and his wife, I think it would it be reasonable to presume he would have already put a stop to it in some way. In my opinion, SS had no such problem with JW. We don't know one way or another. Some assume he did, I presume he did not.

People can be different. People's business relationships can be different. People's personal relationships can be different.

For those who assume that people who keep a reasonably open mind (like me) do so because you think we find him charming or charismatic - I say wth and a hearty LOL! We obviously have different ideas of what's attractive in a person we don't know. I never saw any of JW's social media, I haven't investigated or researched him, I only know what's been posted here about it. It's also hard to believe more than a fraction of what's being reported in the media.

I can see both sides for JW and I do understand why people are suspicious of him because he lied. It's a character flaw if it's a recurring theme in one's life for sure. I don't find that charming or charismatic in the least. I just think the facts that we know so far don't come close to making him guilty of anything other than poor judgment and that doesn't equate to being involved in a robbery. I assume he didn't commit kidnapping, torture or murder because LE publicly declared that "he didn't commit this crime", at least as far as the media reported.

This might be a valuable life lesson for him in more than way.

Just so's you know, as I've aged (but not matured) I've become more judgmental. Not an attractive trait at all, and I declare it. I've also become more aware that people do things that make sense to them, but I'll never understand it and it doesn't make them any better or worse than me - just different. I'm judgmental, but I'm also trying to be more understanding of some things. It's a struggle sometimes.

Normally, I would be all over JW being guilty if I thought the facts came close.

 

[BellaVita]

I'm not defending LW but lying is far more common than discussions here seem to indicate. Lying in one's personal life, although risky, is among the most common of lies, e.g. "I bought the dress on sale, honey; that dress looks great on you, no it doesn't make you look fat." These lies seem insignificant and are dismissed as fibs, but when they lead one to say "that blond hair on my lapel must have come from a woman on the elevator, it is deception. Deception leads to suspicion and that is where JW finds himself today. He lied about small stuff and now he is suspect for the big stuff.

I appreciate your sentiments and of course some will claim that "a lie is a lie". Which I do not claim that.

In my previous post to which this refers, I was not stating that the lies are risky for the liar (which they are). What I meant to get across is that to allow a liar into one's personal circle is risky. It's a bad trait with bad outcomes.

BTW: I have solved how to handle the "does it make me look fat?" question: Buy 3 or 4 swimsuits, jeans, dresses or whatever. Then ask hubby which one looks best. Return the rest. Good solution, yes????????????

 

[nikki80]

IMO, it really shouldn't be a discussion of why a person feels the way they do. We all have opinions. Some of us think JW was involved, some are on the fence (like me), some think he had nothing to do with it, some think he's an innocent kid, etc. We all have an opinion and it shouldn't be questioned or made fun of.

 

[kammiemc]

I agree. I don't really take any issue with the pretentious SM posts. SM is all about "the humble brag" ("just another day in the office"...office is beach or Porsche or whatever.

However. Purposefully deceiving LE about how an unusually large chunk of cash was received and oddly delivered hours before the deaths of four people is nowhere in the realm of normal, excusable or understandable. There is a reason he lied and there is a reason LE outed him. I just read an article yesterday (daily mail) that said LE is investigating links betw DW and JW. No idea if that is true.

IMO JW was a conduit who got in over his head. He is working with LE. There have been NO more arrests though we know others were involved on some level. The money launderers, for example, the people mentioned on the special. Not sure if I can repeat that based on rules here. Nobody can say it's fact that because JW and the rest of those folks are under investigation but have not been arrested means they are cleared of any involvement. Hopefully at some point, they will be cleared or charged.

But what does happen if Someone who was involved shares knowledges with LE for immunity? Does the public ever find out?

 

[facundo]

I appreciate your sentiments and of course some will claim that "a lie is a lie". Which I do not claim that.

In my previous post to which this refers, I was not stating that the lies are risky for the liar (which they are). What I meant to get across is that to allow a liar into one's personal circle is risky. It's a bad trait with bad outcomes.

BTW: I have solved how to handle the "does it make me look fat?" question: Buy 3 or 4 swimsuits, jeans, dresses or whatever. Then ask hubby which one looks best. Return the rest. Good solution, yes????????????

He will either pick his favorite color or the one that best accentuates the curves.

 

[rkf]

Police never called JW a suspect, so what is he suspected of?
Police questioned him right after this horrible incident, he could have been very stressed and rattled.
It was his right to refuse to talk to police, but he didn't.
I fail to understand why police had to put out there that he lied to them.
If he isn't involved, then it's not going to do anyone any good.

The SW for his car said second degree murder. DC Code 22-2103
https://www.scribd.com/doc/267776483/Search-Warrant-for-BMW

 

[MyBelle]

I agree. I don't really take any issue with the pretentious SM posts. SM is all about "the humble brag" ("just another day in the office"...office is beach or Porsche or whatever.

However. Purposefully deceiving LE about how an unusually large chunk of cash was received and oddly delivered hours before the deaths of four people is nowhere in the realm of normal, excusable or understandable. There is a reason he lied and there is a reason LE outed him. I just read an article yesterday (daily mail) that said LE is investigating links betw DW and JW. No idea if that is true.

IMO JW was a conduit who got in over his head. He is working with LE. There have been NO more arrests though we know others were involved on some level. The money launderers, for example, the people mentioned on the special. Not sure if I can repeat that based on rules here. Nobody can say it's fact that because JW and the rest of those folks are under investigation but have not been arrested means they are cleared of any involvement. Hopefully at some point, they will be cleared or charged.

But what does happen if Someone who was involved shares knowledges with LE for immunity? Does the public ever find out?

Lying to federal agents is a crime. A plea deal might get him a reduced sentence but there is no way he's going to get a free pass for lying.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

If he's not involved, that will become clear. I think his "bad name" is a direct result of him lying to LE when his truthful cooperation could have helped track down the people who tortured and murdered four people - one of them a ten year-old boy who was burned alive. If LE clears him of involvement, I won't continue to suspect him. He chose to lie, to cover his a$$ for whatever reason. That was more important to him than helping LE catch the people who committed the crime. He has no one to blame but himself.

BTW, his lying is a character trait, not a one-time thing. I'm sure people close to him have been aware of this behavior for quite some time.

I agree. He is a wannabe rather than a doer. Didn't JW lose his job at the go kart track? I'd say there are quite a few more flaws to his character and the lying is just the tip of the iceberg.

JMO

 

[rkf]

Lying to federal agents is a crime. A plea deal might get him a reduced sentence but there is no way he's going to get a free pass for lying.

JMO

We don't know if the investigators were federal. IDK how that works - if the crime goes federal, do the investigators retroactively become federal "representatives", for lack of a better word? Do federal laws apply retroactively to the investigation, like obstruction of justice charges? The DC and federal definitions are different. Which one would be used?

Sorry to be so obtuse - having a hard time expressing my question.

Also, if gang activity that crosses state lines becomes an integral part of the prosecution, does that make it more likely the prosecution would be changed to federal jurisdiction?

TIA

 

[facundo]

Lying to federal agents is a crime. A plea deal might get him a reduced sentence but there is no way he's going to get a free pass for lying.

JMO

He did not lie to federal agents. He was interviewed by Members of Major Crimes / Cold Case Homicide Unit of DCMPD. The case may become federal after US Atty completes investigation but so far, JW has not lied to a federal agent.

 

[rkf]

I agree. He is a wannabe rather than a doer. Didn't JW lose his job at the go kart track? I'd say there are quite a few more flaws to his character and the lying is just the tip of the iceberg.

JMO

Yes. This is going to sound like JW-trashing, so those of delicate temperament should skip to the next post.

Earlier, someone said "This 'kid' has lost a lot of ground in his life because of this nightmare." I think he was losing ground before this nightmare. He was fired from a job that provided him opportunities to talk to the press, supported his racing aspirations financially and otherwise, allowed him to start a high school racing program that had been one of his dreams since high school (even though he tried racing for the first time when he was 18, after "one too many concussions forced Wallace to leave behind the gridiron as a member of the football team at Annapolis High"). In March 2014 he said "As a racer, this job, this opportunity, this place - it has been a godsend and a dream. I've been really blessed to have this happen to me at this point in my life." In February 2015, he gave interviews to CBS Baltimore News and Press Box Online and The Jordan Wallace/Autobahn Racing Clinic was scheduled for March 16th.

Things seem to be going swimmingly, then he gets fired. He loses his steady income, his access to high profile Autobahn clients, a big part of his social life (as much of it seemed to center around Autobahn and kart racing, his sponsor... What happened in the last year? In the last month of his employ at Autobahn? In the last month of his employ with SS? Many assume that because he was still working for SS at the time of his death, that his employment would have continued if not for the murders. Of course that is possible, but it's equally possible that whatever caught up with him at Autobahn also caught up with him at the S home. Perhaps SS was fine with having his wife's car interior posted online. Perhaps he was not, and had spoken with JW about his lack of discretion. Perhaps SS was going to end their business relationship after six weeks. We don't know, so we can't presume any of the answers is true.

Unless there's some conspiracy against JW, his own actions brought him to the point of needing to find a new job. SS was kind enough to create one for him. The murders happening weeks after JW's proximity to the S family began could be (and probably are) coincidence. If not for SS' intervention, what would JW's life have looked like in May 2015? Would he have found that corporate sponsor? Would he have started standing out as someone who began racing ten years later than the competition, but remarkably is beating them on the track?

He was barely treading water with Autobahn. Without it, he went under. He may have thought SS was going to be a life boat, but he was really just a life preserver. SS' energy went toward his son's budding racing career while JW sat on the sidelines. That cannot have been satisfying to JW's ego, and it didn't seem to help his racing aspirations. In six weeks, JW may have realized that his job with SS was not going to pay off for him in the racing world. JW is already late to the party. He doesn't have time to sit out any dances.

At some point JW's life began a downward spiral. His work with SS may have slowed his descent, but it wasn't going to replace what he'd lost. Alternatively, JW could have marked SS in January or earlier, and conspired to get close to the family - not necessarily with criminal intent, but as a way to further his racing career.

JW's social media may have been full of #livingthedream, but he wasn't really living the dream. He was watching a ten year-old live the dream from the other side of a chainlink fence.

http://www.capitalgazette.com/cg2-arc-140321gn-connections--autobahn-20140329-story.html: "As a racer, this job, this opportunity, this place - it has been a godsend and a dream. I've been really blessed to have this happen to me at this point in my life."

http://www.pressboxonline.com/2015/02/12/karting-a-new-alternative-for-high-school-students: "This has been one of my dreams since I was in high school," Wallace said. "I've raced all over the country. I've been racing for about 10 years, and I've never seen anything like this."

 

[rkf]

If it becomes federal, do federal laws apply retroactively?