DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #15

[FelicityLemon]

Anything is possible, but I keep on trying to figure out how one would confidently assume, based on what we know, that DW worked alone in that house. (Besides the absence of more arrests.) We know that LE seems to have evidence that made them feel confident that that crime required others' involvement. And there were multiple vests, the two pizzas, and the well-groomed person driving the porsche. And he obviously did work with others after the fact. So he wasn't a lone stallion. Can it be said with certainty that he didn't also work with others beforehand and/or during the crime. Is there a reason that he wouldn't have tried to tap into his heinous network to get some help in the crime? Even just to help carry things or be on lookout?

I'm not confident about it, I just lean that way I could be totally wrong! I think it just bugs me to think that more than one evil nasty person would go along with this. I look forward to phone dumps of DW and partner/s. I do believe at least one person knew about the burglary beforehand, but I honestly don't think the rest of it was planned. Again, I could be totally wrong. I forget that our non-criminal brains don't automatically go to those places. I keep thinking like ME, and thinking with self-preservation of not wanting to get caught, I'd go daytime robbery less chance of encountering anyone. I forgot that he said he wasn't afraid of police and if not afraid of LE, he'd certainly not be afraid of women and children. Assuming the man of the house would be busy at one of his many businesses. I keep going for the most simple idea.

Honestly, I can't imagine that there's not some video somewhere that shows someone else involved! It's possible that he had *someone* with him and even if he was alone with booty, he'd still need a ride from there. I don't think he had in mind to steal art or cars, I think cash, maybe jewelry if found, but definitely cash. Easy to carry, if he was searched for any reason, he'd have to explain jewelry?

More unanswered questions for me, not all may mean anything, but I am curious.

Why take a bus to Brooklyn?
Why risk paying $1,000 to an Uber driver? Even if he wasn't identified immediately via DNA like he was, that driver had an interesting story to tell unless he was involved in some way, too. I don't know why that would be, but *new thought as I'm typing" that driver would have been identified by LE by now I think. If he still had any of the cash, he may have had to give it to LE?
He could tell where he picked up DW, where he dropped him off, how the arrangements were made, payment up front, half up front? Was he at all leery of DW - was he acting funny or cool as a cucumber?
Wasn't he suspicious that someone would pay him that much cash?
Was he worried that DW would bail without paying him the minute they stopped anywhere?
I haven't seen anything in the media regarding Uber making any statement - does anyone here recall any info about this?

LE is impressively (and frustratingly) tight-lipped with this. Understandable.

I do hope a GOOD INFORMATIVE book will be written when this is over.

 

[Bootsctr]

IMO DW was worried about who might call or who might show up at the house while he was holding them hostage. He could coerce SS and AS to make voice calls easily with a knife held closely to Philip and tell them don't dare say anything out of the ordinary or you will see more blood. In this case it wasn't whether they were "allowed" to make calls, they were forced to make those calls. He didn't have to know who NG was. This may have been a Savopoulos ruse to try and get an inane message to NG when it was clear she was not supposed to come to the house anyway, hoping she might suspect something was amiss. Unfortunately she thought the messages were goofy but didn't understand this contradiction to be a serious alert.

Nelitza Gutierrez, the housekeeper who received the messages and has worked for the family for 20 years, said in an interview Saturday that the series of messages left her with the impression that something was amiss with her employers. She said Savvas Savopoulos told her in person Wednesday that his wife had plans to go out, but said in the voice mail left that night that Amy Savopoulos had been sick in bed all day.

"It was something very suspicious because I felt his voice was really tense,” Gutierrez said in Spanish. “And it was different than what he had said to me before.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...140154-fbf7-11e4-9030-b4732caefe81_story.html

 

[kammiemc]

NG confirmed it...:

The Savopoulos' housekeeper, Nelitza Gutierrez, told FOX 5's Paul Wagner that this employee told her that he dropped off the cash on Thursday morning. Sources say he picked up the cash earlier that morning from the American Iron Works company owned by Savopoulos.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/29129466/savopoulos-assistant

But, denies it here:

Gutierrez said that she knew nothing about the money that was dropped off May 14 and that she had never seen the assistant or anyone else drop off cash to the Savopoulos home in the 20 years she had worked there.

On May 15, the day after the killings, the personal assistant called the veteran American Iron Works employee’s cellphone “and was crying,” according to the police documents. The assistant “stated that he had dropped off a package” at the Savopoulos house on May 14, on his way to Chantilly, the documents say.

I know. At first, you could read her statement as that she was aware ahead of time that there was a drop off planned of $40k and the assistant followed up with her to confirm that he had made it.

I'm not sure, under any circumstances, that would be happening, whether the assistant was totally innocent, or thoroughly involved.

I think what likely happened is that she heard after the fact that the assistant said (whether to her face or via LE or others) that he made a scheduled drop off at the house. If they both went to the fire like they said they did (I think VF is on video there) then they might have seen each other and the assistant might have said, "I can't believe it. I was just here a few hours ago dropping off $40k for the dojo..."

She could say, in turn, "the assistant confirmed that he dropped off $40k for the dojo"

And, if someone pressed her more to find out if she knew about the drop off ahead of time, she could say, "What? I didn't know anything about a scheduled drop off."

Both those things would be true. Just confusing.

 

[kammiemc]

I'm not confident about it, I just lean that way I could be totally wrong! I think it just bugs me to think that more than one evil nasty person would go along with this. I look forward to phone dumps of DW and partner/s. I do believe at least one person knew about the burglary beforehand, but I honestly don't think the rest of it was planned. Again, I could be totally wrong. I forget that our non-criminal brains don't automatically go to those places. I keep thinking like ME, and thinking with self-preservation of not wanting to get caught, I'd go daytime robbery less chance of encountering anyone. I forgot that he said he wasn't afraid of police and if not afraid of LE, he'd certainly not be afraid of women and children. Assuming the man of the house would be busy at one of his many businesses. I keep going for the most simple idea.

Honestly, I can't imagine that there's not some video somewhere that shows someone else involved! It's possible that he had *someone* with him and even if he was alone with booty, he'd still need a ride from there. I don't think he had in mind to steal art or cars, I think cash, maybe jewelry if found, but definitely cash. Easy to carry, if he was searched for any reason, he'd have to explain jewelry?

More unanswered questions for me, not all may mean anything, but I am curious.

Why take a bus to Brooklyn?
Why risk paying $1,000 to an Uber driver? Even if he wasn't identified immediately via DNA like he was, that driver had an interesting story to tell unless he was involved in some way, too. I don't know why that would be, but *new thought as I'm typing" that driver would have been identified by LE by now I think. If he still had any of the cash, he may have had to give it to LE?
He could tell where he picked up LE, where he dropped him off, how the arrangements were made, payment up front, half up front? Was he at all leery of DW - was he acting funny or cool as a cucumber?
Wasn't he suspicious that someone would pay him that much cash?
Was he worried that DW would bail without paying him the minute they stopped anywhere?
I haven't seen anything in the media regarding Uber making any statement - does anyone here recall any info about this?

LE is impressively (and frustratingly) tight-lipped with this. Understandable.

I do hope a GOOD INFORMATIVE book will be written when this is over.

I'm with you!!!! One other thing I keep thinking is that DW could have been high as a kite and not using any thought patterns whatsoever. Did we hear at some point LE say they thought the perps got in by posing in those vests? I could be wrong. The details are old now. I tend to believe that they had reason for saying the crime required others or they would have used different language. Of course, they could be wrong or changed their minds. They are really keeping things quiet and I am sure that it is all for good reason. I understand the idea of wanting to believe that there is only one person as evil as DW. And he very well might be the worst of his bunch. The wildcard.

The other thing that's crazy is that he was SHOCKED that he was arrested. He must have some screws seriously loose.

 

[MyBelle]

IMO DW was worried about who might call or who might show up at the house while he was holding them hostage. He could coerce SS and AS to make voice calls easily with a knife held closely to Philip and tell them don't dare say anything out of the ordinary or you will see more blood. In this case it wasn't whether they were "allowed" to make calls, they were forced to make those calls. He didn't have to know who NG was. This may have been a Savopoulos ruse to try and get an inane message to NG when it was clear she was not supposed to come to the house anyway, hoping she might suspect something was amiss. Unfortunately she thought the messages were goofy but didn't understand this contradiction to be a serious alert.

I'm not sure why you think DW would be concerned that NG would show up at the house when she was not scheduled to come to the house on Thursday to begin with. Forcing or allowing SS to make a call to NG makes no sense whatsoever. If Wint was that concerned about someone showing up, why didn't he force SS to call Vera's husband on Wednesday night? Her husband DID show up at the house Thursday morning.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

I know that LE keeps saying that he must have had help. And I can see why. But I also think of recent times that LE say there were 'others involved' and it turned out to be incorrect. Like the recent attack on the Dallas Police Station. They had two immediate press conferences where it was said there were witnesses saying there were 2 or 3 shooters. It turned out to be one crazy whack job.

So far I am not convinced that there were others inside the home. I really believe they would have DNA and a match by now. But I could be totally wrong, of course. :yes:

 

[kammiemc]

NG confirmed it...:

The Savopoulos' housekeeper, Nelitza Gutierrez, told FOX 5's Paul Wagner that this employee told her that he dropped off the cash on Thursday morning. Sources say he picked up the cash earlier that morning from the American Iron Works company owned by Savopoulos.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/29129466/savopoulos-assistant

But, denies it here:

Gutierrez said that she knew nothing about the money that was dropped off May 14 and that she had never seen the assistant or anyone else drop off cash to the Savopoulos home in the 20 years she had worked there.

On May 15, the day after the killings, the personal assistant called the veteran American Iron Works employee’s cellphone “and was crying,” according to the police documents. The assistant “stated that he had dropped off a package” at the Savopoulos house on May 14, on his way to Chantilly, the documents say.

FYI, I was actually talking about what was written in the docs directly by LE.

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm not sure why you think DW would be concerned that NG would show up at the house when she was not scheduled to come to the house on Thursday to begin with. Forcing or allowing SS to make a call to NG makes no sense whatsoever. If Wint was that concerned about someone showing up, why didn't he force SS to call Vera's husband on Wednesday night? Her husband DID show up at the house Thursday morning.

JMO

I think she listened the voicemail Wednesday night when she got it. I think she intentionally did not call Vera's husband. She could have saved Vera's life, but Vera wanted to go back to El Salvador. She was going to leave her boss. Vera was a hard worker. How would Nellie ever replace Vera?

"On Wednesday night, Gutierrez told police, she got the voice mail from Savvas Savopoulos saying that his wife was sick and Philip was home from school with an injury. He told her that Figueroa was going to stay the night to help, but that her phone had died and she had no charger. He asked the housekeeper to call Figueroa’s relatives to relay the message."

Okay, to her benefit, she does say earlier that:

"She said she first listened to the message Thursday morning and immediately called Amy Savopoulos “to see if she was okay, but she never answered.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...bf7-11e4-9030-b4732caefe81_story.html?hpid=z1

$10,000 for NG
$10,000 for JW
$10,000 for DW
$10,000 for ? ______ fill-in-the-blank

 

[Bootsctr]

No, wait! Nellie focused on Vera in the 20/20 interview.... tsk, tsk, tsk! My Bad!

Gutierrez told ABC News’ “20/20” in an interview that she believes the suspects broke in the day before the fire, based on bizarre messages she received from Savvas and Amy Savopoulos.

“When I got that message on Thursday, I was thinking, and I started calling them,” Gutierrez said. “I focused on Vera, I don’t know why… I call her and I say, ‘Hi, Vera, What’s going on?’ No answer.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dc-mansion...utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[MyBelle]

Vera might have been unconscious and unable to speak. OR, surely, she spoke to her husband in Spanish. Maybe DW was worried that he couldn't monitor what she'd say. Maybe no one could figure out how to text in Spanish, or her husband doesn't even do texts. This might be seen as an opportunity by SS to request to contact VF's friend and employer (NG) to appease her husband that all was well. Or maybe DW demanded that the call be made because he didn't want people snooping around the property. The call, in itself, is not IMO incriminating of NG at all.

Vera's husband DID show up and was "snooping around" the property. SS did then call him directly. No need to get NG involved whatsoever.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

No, wait! Nellie focused on Vera in the 20/20 interview.... tsk, tsk, tsk! My Bad!

Gutierrez told ABC News’ “20/20” in an interview that she believes the suspects broke in the day before the fire, based on bizarre messages she received from Savvas and Amy Savopoulos.

“When I got that message on Thursday, I was thinking, and I started calling them,” Gutierrez said. “I focused on Vera, I don’t know why… I call her and I say, ‘Hi, Vera, What’s going on?’ No answer.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dc-mansion...233&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

She just received a message asking her to call Vera's family because her phone was dead and yet the first thing she does is call Vera. No mention at all about calling Vera's husband and telling him the phone was dead.

JMO

 

[Bootsctr]

Vera's husband DID show up and was "snooping around" the property. SS did then call him directly. No need to get NG involved whatsoever.

JMO

Good point! I'm telling you that girl is as slick as a whistle.

 

[BondGirl]

IMO DW was worried about who might call or who might show up at the house while he was holding them hostage. He could coerce SS and AS to make voice calls easily with a knife held closely to Philip and tell them don't dare say anything out of the ordinary or you will see more blood. In this case it wasn't whether they were "allowed" to make calls, they were forced to make those calls. He didn't have to know who NG was. This may have been a Savopoulos ruse to try and get an inane message to NG when it was clear she was not supposed to come to the house anyway, hoping she might suspect something was amiss. Unfortunately she thought the messages were goofy but didn't understand this contradiction to be a serious alert.

Yeah but SS could have said AS's trainer was supposed to come over in the morning or pulled any number of other people into it to call who would have actually have listened to the call and might have caught on that he was in danger....

 

[kammiemc]

Vera's husband DID show up and was "snooping around" the property. SS did then call him directly. No need to get NG involved whatsoever.

JMO

I have no contrary opinion to this at all. The only thing I can surmise is that SS would be grasping at ANY reason to convince DW that he needed to call ANYONE and make it seem like it would be for DW's benefit. If I were SS, I'd be saying, "I need to call the contractor or 10 guys will show up at 8 AM. I need to call the housekeeper or her crew will show up at 9 AM. I need to call my accountant directly, as that's our deal. I need to call the pizza guys. I need to call my sister. I need to call my assistant at work. I need to call my driver.

I would be making up every possible scenario to call ANYONE. I think that convincing DW that a housecleaning crew needed to be stopped from arriving would be "low hanging fruit."

WE KNOW that it was not necessary for SS to call NG. But the trick would have been for SS to make DW believe that it was in DW's best interest. I'm not up for a fight on this as I don't have a strong belief. Just trying to be clear about what I think are POSSIBILITIES.

 

[Bootsctr]

"Police documents also show there were reports of unusual activity in the neighborhood. Neighbors reported seeing a man banging on the door of one home. There was an aggressive vacuum cleaner salesman at another house and reports of a prowler."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/victims-of-d-c-murder-arson-may-have-been-extorted/

Maybe Wint & Co wanted to make this deal a two-for that Thursday morning?

 

[facundo]

IMO DW was worried about who might call or who might show up at the house while he was holding them hostage. He could coerce SS and AS to make voice calls easily with a knife held closely to Philip and tell them don't dare say anything out of the ordinary or you will see more blood. In this case it wasn't whether they were "allowed" to make calls, they were forced to make those calls. He didn't have to know who NG was. This may have been a Savopoulos ruse to try and get an inane message to NG when it was clear she was not supposed to come to the house anyway, hoping she might suspect something was amiss. Unfortunately she thought the messages were goofy but didn't understand this contradiction to be a serious alert.

I'm not sure why you think DW would be concerned that NG would show up at the house when she was not scheduled to come to the house on Thursday to begin with. Forcing or allowing SS to make a call to NG makes no sense whatsoever. If Wint was that concerned about someone showing up, why didn't he force SS to call Vera's husband on Wednesday night? Her husband DID show up at the house Thursday morning.

JMO

1. I believe you misunderstand what I wrote. If this doesn't make sense to you we'll just disagree.
2. Actually SS did ask NG to contact Vera's husband and anyone else who might be looking for her.

 

[BondGirl]

Vera might have been unconscious and unable to speak. OR, surely, she spoke to her husband in Spanish. Maybe DW was worried that he couldn't monitor what she'd say. Maybe no one could figure out how to text in Spanish, or her husband doesn't even do texts. This might be seen as an opportunity by SS to request to contact VF's friend and employer (NG) to appease her husband that all was well. Or maybe DW demanded that the call be made because he didn't want people snooping around the property. The call, in itself, is not IMO incriminating of NG at all.

SS could've texted NG

 

[MyBelle]

1. I believe you misunderstand what I wrote. If this doesn't make sense to you we'll just disagree.
2. Actually SS did ask NG to contact Vera's husband and anyone else who might be looking for her.

And NG did NOT contact Vera's husband which is why he came to the house.

JMO

 

[kammiemc]

SS could've texted NG

True. That's what DW did from AS's phone in the AM. Can you think of any reason why he would have tried to make DW believe that he needed to get on the phone with NG? Or how he might have done that?

I'm not sure if we are talking possibilities here, or if I am inadvertently in the position of having to disprove the theory that NG was an inside informant. In that case, I'll stop my involvement in the convo, because I don't know enough or feel strongly enough to argue one way or the other. So, I, myself, IMO, would veer on the safe side of not speculating her involvement.

 

[MyBelle]

I have no contrary opinion to this at all. The only thing I can surmise is that SS would be grasping at ANY reason to convince DW that he needed to call ANYONE and make it seem like it would be for DW's benefit. If I were SS, I'd be saying, "I need to call the contractor or 10 guys will show up at 8 AM. I need to call the housekeeper or her crew will show up at 9 AM. I need to call my accountant directly, as that's our deal. I need to call the pizza guys. I need to call my sister. I need to call my assistant at work. I need to call my driver.

I would be making up every possible scenario to call ANYONE. I think that convincing DW that a housecleaning crew needed to be stopped from arriving would be "low hanging fruit."

WE KNOW that it was not necessary for SS to call NG. But the trick would have been for SS to make DW believe that it was in DW's best interest. I'm not up for a fight on this as I don't have a strong belief. Just trying to be clear about what I think are POSSIBILITIES.

A locked house would keep a housecleaning crew from arriving but a house cleaning crew wasn't expected. After all, Vera WAS the housekeeper and she was right there.

SS did have an opportunity in the call with his sister yet he did not give a hint that anything was wrong. I can think of only one reason DW would have allowed TWO calls to NG and that is if she is a co-conspirator.

JMO