DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #7

[katydid23]

If somehow SS was able to get the bank manager to let them come in before lobby hours, that then would stretch out how long the Ss were alive afterward and why SS was calling JW at noon, which itself would raise issues as to the timeline of what happened. I don't know why the money wasn't immediately handed to JW if JW was in the bank with the AIW employee watching what is happening. I think what LE may be getting at with some of this is they doubt there was ever a manila envelope and other such things that raise their suspicion.

BBM
The money wouldn't be handed over to JW right there in the bank because it was signed out by the AIW employee. The bank gives him the money. He has to take it himself. Thus he will leave he bank with possession of the cash. JMO

 

[Canaille]

Which car is this in the driveway?

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.926...!1e1!3m2!1s7v6J4DfJBElQ_qrL7Pm8CA!2e0!6m1!1e1

First car on the street

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.926...!1e1!3m2!1s7v6J4DfJBElQ_qrL7Pm8CA!2e0!6m1!1e1

If you use the street arrow, you might notice that the cars change. What appears to be the Porsche and then a grey Range/Land Rover.

Also, when looking at the other house on the corner, it appears that there is a security camera on the corner of the home.

 

[corundogs]

Because JW is a free man and not even a POI???

And since the Mosler was taken in for evidence processing, it is safe to say that his fingerprints are on the car? And that DDW's are probably not??

I know, I know...y'all are gonna say well he drove it so of course his fingerprints would be on it.

I just don't know why some here insist that he and now his girlfriend were involved!! There are actually explanations for his actions...

And of course, we KNOW that DDW had the money, because a week later he was found with over $20K and some money orders we know were given to his friends.

All of that being said...I give up. No one's mind is going to be changed by things being explained. One way or another. No one is going to convince me that he was involved - until LE tells me otherwise. Some will not be convinced he wasn't involved - possibly even after LE tells them otherwise.

 

[katydid23]

What if the money was never put in the car at all?

What if the picture sent from JW to his girlfriend (W2) of the money in the bag was just a code saying "We got the money"

It would be very interesting to know where all the cell phones of these players were when text messages, pictures were sent and calls made. I'm sure LE is looking into that and mapping the locations of cell phone pings to get an idea if everyone was where they say they were. Or if anyone was somewhere they shouldn't have been.

JMO

I think the money, or at least much of it, WAS put in the car because when DW was found, he had thousands of dollars in one hundreds, on him and on his friends.

If you were in the middle of stealing 40k, would you text proof of that crime on your cell?

And they have surveillance cam video evidence that shows where the driver was during the crime. He was at a a Lowes 45 minutes away and never was in the arra of the crime scene.

 

[stmarysmead]

Why on earth would there be any proof the money was in the car??

The reason there was nothing in the car was because DDW had taken it out. Because the Savopoulos family was being help hostage, and a large sum of cash was gathered together in a out of the blue request, that those involved had told police was needed ASAP.

They know that DDW kept the family hostage, because his DNA was found where 4 people were tied up, tortured and killed.

The charging documents had to include how the money got to the house for DDW to take out of the car...because they had to prove kidnapping for ransom. Which is why DW's story is included in the charging documents.

They had SS's phone. They were able to contact all of those people he called that morning to figure out what really happened.

But none of that explains why W-1 was "witness-shamed" in the charging doc... why his first story was included and labeled, in part, "lies." Why didn't they just include the second story if they are satisfied that he is now telling the truth.

They can only take the word of those who say SS was on the other end of the phone, because, tragically, SS cannot confirm. And DW who was in control of SS may easily be I control of HIS phone. Certainly using SS phone is the best way to communicate with a conspirator. It could have been DW or accomplice communicating from SS phone. All they can tell is the number...unless it is a voice mail.

Therefore, in my opinion, they can't "figure out what happened" in regard to who was using SS's phone in these calls to W-1.

And, I agree, they know that DW tortured and kept this family hostage. They also feel he had help.

We cannot, at this point, rule out W-1. We cannot definitely rule him IN...but neither position is incredulous

 

[katydid23]

Maybe JW never dropped off the money....ie, was never there. Just a thought.

Then how did DW end up with all those thousands in hundred dollar bills when arrested?

 

[HastingsChi]

Can you please update W2 description to "Apparently W1's girlfriend." TIA

"But police found that [JW] text messaged photos of the bundles of cash -- apparently to his girlfriend, according to WTTG."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/3...-to-police-about-details-40000-cash-delivery/

I'm dying to learn the argument made to get a judge to approve accessing Jordan's girlfriend's mobile phone records and data...

UNLESS...
Having received the MMS with the money in the bag and then learning about the murders on the news, Jordan's girlfriend thought something was amiss and she contacted DC police herself.

 

[kammiemc]

Maybe JW never dropped off the money....ie, was never there. Just a thought.

I totally agree that this is a possibility. We have NO idea that the money made it to the car. Only JW's story. I am not sure why we are assuming that JW's second story is any truer than his original. He made up lies for a reason. And seeing that four people are dead, I don't think he was worried about being embarrassed for looking silly in his actions. I think he is 100% involved and was trying to make it look like he was not. For all we know, he went inside the house. For all we know, JW orchestrated the whole thing and told DW to force SS to order JW to be the money carrier, so that he could keep half and later give the second half to DW and his "team." Perhaps the only thing that went wrong with the plan is that DW went psycho and killed everyone.

 

[catdoggy21]

The home and cameras might be a distance from the street and S's home. But at least one of the camera's is likely pointing towards the street and might capture anyone making entrance to the garage which could be used to prove or disprove JW's account of leaving the money in the car in the garage when he said he did or when cars came and went. Grainy or not you would still see if someone like the garage door opening and closing.

I'm still not convinced JW even left the money in the car. His story makes more sense if you think that he didn't and that is why he came up with different accounts of how he handled the money and lied about what he did in the garage. I would imagine after JW thought about what he had told LE about located the key to the car, unlocked it, placing the money on the seat and put the key back, that he would be caught in a lie when LE found the car unlocked and the key possibly in the ignition. JW had to cover his butt so he changed his story. You don't just forget about something like if you had to unlock the car or not.

JMO

Right, you don't forget that. I think JW told police he located the key, unlocked the car and put the key back but police were unable to locate the key where JW said he put it and that is how they caught him in the lie. SS probably had the key on his key ring so how would JW get the key from that if he didn't know what was going on? IMO

 

[kammiemc]

BBM
The money wouldn't be handed over to JW right there in the bank because it was signed out by the AIW employee. The bank gives him the money. He has to take it himself. Thus he will leave he bank with possession of the cash. JMO

Banks are likely to have cameras outside. Beyond the AIW employee's account, LE probably could see how the cash was transferred and so could verify JW was lying his pants off.

 

[stmarysmead]

Then how did DW end up with all those thousands in hundred dollar bills when arrested?

Because he got his cut of the money. We have not heard that all $40,000 was found.

Furthermore, as to why W-1 has not been charged if "guilty" ..well, the people in the "DW Car and Truck parade" have not been charged either. Doesn't prove they won't be.

W-1 may be a sweetheart. But, since LE has very provocatively proclaimed him to be a liar in a public document...attention has been drawn to him. In a crime this heinous, every single aspect must be looked at from every angle...we all know that. If someone "inside" betrayed this family, this child...and was party to one of the most horrific crimes I have ever read about, it is grotesque beyond description. That person is perhaps even more vile than the torturer himself.

Think of the scars left for the surviving daughters...how do they ever trust again...if it's someone the family knew.

I don't think we are here to "convince" each other...only to hypothesize. Any minute, more information can make everything I thought I knew...false. Or vice versa.

 

[katydid23]

Right, you don't forget that. I think JW told police he located the key, unlocked the car and put the key back but police were unable to locate the key where JW said he put it and that is how they caught him in the lie. SS probably had the key on his key ring so how would JW get the key from that if he didn't know what was going on? IMO

JW was the hired driver. He moved the cars around and gassed them up. I think he may have had access to where the keys were kept.
JMO :cow:

 

[kammiemc]

Then how did DW end up with all those thousands in hundred dollar bills when arrested?

He could have dropped it off to him or another accomplice somewhere else later. There is no reason that the transfer HAD to happen at the house. In fact, the only reason for DW to be at the house was to hold the family so SS was forced to make the order to get the money from the bank. If JW was in on the crime (and he wouldn't be making things up about simple actions if he didn't have something pretty big to hide in a quadruple homicide investigation) then dropping off the money at the house would actually be totally unnecessary, since we know (and he likely knew) that the money was not actually for SS and his dojo. It was for the bad guys.

 

[BirdycatNY]

What if the money was never put in the car at all?

What if the picture sent from JW to his girlfriend (W2) of the money in the bag was just a code saying "We got the money"

It would be very interesting to know where all the cell phones of these players were when text messages, pictures were sent and calls made. I'm sure LE is looking into that and mapping the locations of cell phone pings to get an idea if everyone was where they say they were. Or if anyone was somewhere they shouldn't have been. BBM

JMO

This is a good point and I think LE are much further along in their investigation than what is being publicly shared. There are various ways, including technology to gather evidence, so if W1 has any part to play in the murder of Savapoulos' SS, AS, PS and Ms. Figueroa and/or other crimes, then LE is going to find enough evidence to support any arrest. And I think LE will be able to track much of any perp(s) movements from cameras, as areas travelled are not some remote location too. LE, U.S. Marshals, etc. have done an excellent job so far in apprehending alleged suspect DDW, so I don't expect anything less from them in tracking additional perp(s), money, weapons and/or other ill-gotten gains from this horrendous crime. Jmo/

 

[katydid23]

He could have dropped it off to him or another accomplice somewhere else later. There is no reason that the transfer HAD to happen at the house. In fact, the only reason for DW to be at the house was to hold the family so SS was forced to make the order to get the money from the bank. If JW was in on the crime (and he wouldn't be making things up about simple actions if he didn't have something pretty big to hide in a quadruple homicide investigation) then dropping off the money at the house would actually be totally unnecessary, since we know (and he likely knew) that the money was not actually for SS and his dojo. It was for the bad guys.

So you think this professional driver had the family brutally killed so he could get 20K?

 

[catdoggy21]

JW was the hired driver. He moved the cars around and gassed them up. I think he may have had access to where the keys were kept.
JMO :cow:

I'm also curious about him being the "driver" does that mean he drove SS around in SS's cars? or does it mean he was SS errand runner in his(JW's) own car? I never read anything that clarified that. The pics that JW posted could be him taking SS car to get detailed, etc. JMO

 

[atthelake]

I'm dying to learn the argument made to get a judge to approve accessing Jordan's girlfriend's mobile phone records and data...

UNLESS...
Having received the MMS with the money in the bag and then learning about the murders on the news, Jordan's girlfriend thought something was amiss and she contacted DC police herself.

Because SHE SHOWED it to them. It's in the charging documents shown below. HTH



Another one put to bed!

 

[kammiemc]

Because he got his cut of the money. We have not heard that all $40,000 was found.

Furthermore, as to why W-1 has not been charged if "guilty" ..well, the people in the "DW Car and Truck parade" have not been charged either. Doesn't prove they won't be.

W-1 may be a sweetheart. But, since LE has very provocatively proclaimed him to be a liar in a public document...attention has been drawn to him. In a crime this heinous, every single aspect must be looked at from every angle...we all know that. If someone "inside" betrayed this family, this child...and was party to one of the most horrific crimes I have ever read about, it is grotesque beyond description. That person is perhaps even more vile than the torturer himself.

Think of the scars left for the surviving daughters...how do they ever trust again...if it's someone the family knew.

I don't think we are here to "convince" each other...only to hypothesize. Any minute, more information can make everything I thought I knew...false. Or vice versa.

I think your theory is a good one. My friend's trusted accountant of 20 years stole all of his money. People steal from their employers all the time. Even people who are not super high on the evil, cold-blooded killer scale. I will be shocked if it comes out that the new, lifestyle-coveting assistant that lied about how he delivered the ransom money was not in some way a maker of the plan.

 

[katydid23]

I think your theory is a good one. My friend's trusted accountant of 20 years stole all of his money. People steal from their employers all the time. Even people who are not super high on the evil, cold-blooded killer scale. I will be shocked if it comes out that the new, lifestyle-coveting assistant that lied about how he delivered the ransom money was not in some way a maker of the plan.

For 20K? He would do all of that pre-planning, all of that work and have a family killed, for the sake of 20K? And now he is jobless again? But at least he and his girlfriend have that big huge pile of cash to fall back on...

 

[birpu]

OK, here's something to add to the think tank. I've mentioned it before. If JW was in cahoots with the kidnappers and called ten minutes out (was NOT asked to according to statement, he just called) - was that to meet DW or someone to hand over cash in the garage? We only have his word that SS even talked to him and told him to put the money in the car. If the plan was to hand it over personally inside the garage, he would have no idea if the car was locked or not, because he would never have touched the car. So he could have made up the story about the car, the manilla envelop, etc. to explain going into the garage to start with.

So, his lies can possibly mean different things depending on how you look at it.
There are damning explanations and exculpatory explanations for each piece of this puzzle.