DC/VA - Light plane crashes after chase by jet fighters in Washington area, 4 June 2023

[Gardenista]

This is another comment I saw yesterday from a pilot who was listening to ATC broadcasts at the time of the flight. It's unnerving to me that planes can fly around and seemingly ignore ATC without something happening, but then I'm not really sure what should happen

The Cessna departed from a small airport Sunday in Elizabethton, Tenn., at 1:14 p.m. and was bound for Long Island, according to flight tracking data. The two people familiar with the investigation into the crash said contact with the plane was lost about 15 minutes after its departure, as it was passing over Virginia for the first time.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/06/05/cessna-citation-plane-crash-sonic-boom/

 

[Gardenista]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1665864586589876224

 

[Gardenista]

There's a lot more audio than this. I wish some MSM would post it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1665752575407169536

 

[iamshadow21]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1665864586589876224

Sounds like whatever happened happened fast, then. That they flew for hours after that was just due to the automated systems in the aircraft.

MOO

 

[evilwise]

I'm inclined to think it was in fact high altitude decompression then the turbulence from the F-16s getting close enough to observe the cockpit caused the autopilot to fail. If it was only a pilot medical emergency the passengers would have responded to the radio. There's no reason for such a small aircraft's cockpit to be locked.

 

[ifindedout]

If this was a case of the pilot having a medical emergency, but with the passengers staying awake, wouldn't they be able to at least contact someone on the ground?

Apart from the Payne Stewart incident there was also an airliner lost over Greece due to lack of pressurization (Helios Airways Flight 522).

There was also this event in September 2022.

Latvia - Cessna Citation II/SP, OE-FGR, crashes into Baltic Sea, pilot/owner + 3 passengers missing, poss cabin depressurization - 04 September 2022

Private Cessna aircraft crashes off coast of Latvia after NATO jets scrambled A private jet crashed into the Baltic Sea off the coast of Latvia on Sunday, hours after NATO jets were scrambled to follow the plane. The Austrian-registered Cessna Citation 551 departed Jerez, Spain at 12:56 UTC...

www.websleuths.com

 

[ifindedout]

ADS-B track from takeoff from Elizabethton to FL340 over Pulaski, VA:

ADS-B Exchange - track aircraft live

ADS-B Exchange - track aircraft live - aircraft flight history

globe.adsbexchange.com

 

[Gardenista]

This documentary about the Payne Stewart situation was just posted by Wondery 3 weeks ago. I haven't finished it yet, but it's good. There are dramatizations, but they intersperse those with interviews of the aviation people who were involved.

 

[fred&edna]

Was it determined why the jet carrying Payne Stewart lost pressurization? I just remember reading cabin pressure alarms could be heard in the recovered recording.

 

[ifindedout]

Was it determined why the jet carrying Payne Stewart lost pressurization?

That could not be determined conclusively. However, the NTSB discovered that repairs had been made to the pressurization system in the past, and while the repairs themselves were well-documented in company maintenance logs, the aircrew's "trouble log" which prompted the repairs was not.
1999 South Dakota Learjet crash - Wikipedia (described under section Investigation)
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAB0001.pdf

 

[Sundog]

This documentary about the Payne Stewart situation was just posted by Wondery 3 weeks ago. I haven't finished it yet, but it's good. There are dramatizations, but they intersperse those with interviews of the aviation people who were involved.

Wow. So the checklist when the cockpit pressure warning light/signal comes on doesn't say to put on your oxygen masks until AFTER the other actions need to be taken. By then it is too late, according to experts. You only have about 15 seconds without oxygen before hypoxia sets in.

Thanks for posting this. An amazing documentary.

But now I can't help but wonder about this case, and the plane that crashed in Virginia with the Rumbel daughter, grandchild and others on board. If they had an emergency with lack of pressure in the cockpit and cabin, why didn't they put on oxygen masks and then safely land the plane?


Edited some typos

 

[JerseyGirl]

Hamptons realtor killed in plane crash was adopted by Trump donors when she was 40

The Hamptons Realtor killed alongside her toddler in a “ghost plane’’ crash was adopted at the age of 40 by notable Trump donors — who said she reminded them of their daughter who had died in a tra…

nypost.com

In addition to Azarian and her daughter, the plane’s pilot, married dad of three Jeff Hefner, and their nanny, Evadnie Smith, were aboard the doomed flight.

Last two victims who died in Virginia plane crash identified

Evadnie Smith, originally from Jamaica, was employed as a live-in nanny to baby Aria at Adina Azarian’s East Hampton home and was traveling with the mother and child when their plane crashed.

nypost.com

 

[Gardenista]

Hamptons realtor killed in plane crash was adopted by Trump donors when she was 40

The Hamptons Realtor killed alongside her toddler in a “ghost plane’’ crash was adopted at the age of 40 by notable Trump donors — who said she reminded them of their daughter who had died in a tra…

nypost.com

In addition to Azarian and her daughter, the plane’s pilot, married dad of three Jeff Hefner, and their nanny, Evadnie Smith, were aboard the doomed flight.

Last two victims who died in Virginia plane crash identified

Evadnie Smith, originally from Jamaica, was employed as a live-in nanny to baby Aria at Adina Azarian’s East Hampton home and was traveling with the mother and child when their plane crashed.

nypost.com

Pilot's Linkedin. Southwest Airlines pilot for 30 years

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-hefner-88b28130

 

[Sundog]

Was it determined why the jet carrying Payne Stewart lost pressurization? I just remember reading cabin pressure alarms could be heard in the recovered recording.

According to the documentary posted above, the NTSB never found a key piece of the pressurization system, even though they scoured the site for this missing piece. The crater that the Lear Jet plane made as it crashed to the ground from that high altitude and speed sent the parts of the plane deep into the ground.

But through other analysis, the NTSB determined that de-pressurization was the cause as they looked at all the information (frost on the plane windows as seen by the F-16 pilot who was dispatched to track the plane, etc.).

 

[ifindedout]

Map of the Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) territories of the continental U.S.
Source: Air Route Traffic Control - AVweb

 

[LaborDayRN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1665540391263772674

So are sonic booms rare in that area? I grew up and still live in an area near a major airforce base and sonic booms are very common here. They were much more common in the 1960's thru the 90's but we still hear them.

 

[fred&edna]

I always find the Air Safety Institute "early analysis" reports very reliable and informative. Especially informative in this case regarding cabin pressure, timing, pilot settings, etc.

 

[PrairieWind]

So are sonic booms rare in that area? I grew up and still live in an area near a major airforce base and sonic booms are very common here. They were much more common in the 1960's thru the 90's but we still hear them.

Aircraft are not allowed to fly faster than sound over the US except in certain rare circumstances or in certain areas, training ranges.

 

[Damarna]

A sudden depressurization can sucks the air out of lungs. If this happened, there may have been no time to react.

 

[fred&edna]

According to the documentary posted above, the NTSB never found a key piece of the pressurization system, even though they scoured the site for this missing piece. The crater that the Lear Jet plane made as it crashed to the ground from that high altitude and speed sent the parts of the plane deep into the ground.

But through other analysis, the NTSB determined that de-pressurization was the cause as they looked at all the information (frost on the plane windows as seen by the F-16 pilot who was dispatched to track the plane, etc.).

Thank you for the info.


Even though there have been many reports that this (Virginia) crash involved cabin de-pressurization (and I posted a video about that possibility)... I've also heard/seen others that suggest maybe not. Interesting and sad... whatever the outcome here.