Dead Pets

[Athinker2]

I never ever read a depo regarding these pets so today's testimony was a big shock to me. Anyone can see this was unfavorable to the defense...it is almost a confession. CA let us know that some of these pets were not euthanized at the vet's. I mentioned this at the dinner table tonight and my family who doesn't follow the trial nearly fell off their chairs. What in the name of G-d was JB thinking?

JMO maybe after being around KC for 3 years he learned just how disturbed she really is and wants to make sure she goes away forever or gets death.

 

[1tasha]

The shock is that JB created a picture in the jurors' minds of Casey taking something dead, wrapping it in a blanket, putting it in garbage bags, using tape (somehow) in the process, maybe adding some "love" token, getting a shovel, and placing the dead thing on the ground in the back yard.

Now it will be easier for the jurors to continue the mental movie on their own: ... and then she realized she couldn't dig the grave there and put the "package" in her trunk and drove around wondering what to do until it finally smelled so awful that she threw it into a swamp.

This! Emphatically this! For me it clears the fog from a bunch of disparate pieces. And it clicks. Just horrific. My stomach hurts.

 

[Patience]

WAY OT but...I have had a bad feeling for a long time that Casey may have been pregnant and "gotten rid of " another baby sometime in high school. Go with me for a minute. So CA talked about Casey quitting track in high school and gaining 15 pounds, she also talked about Casey's irregular periods and the fact that she and Casey would joke about being sooo bloated with PMS as to look pregnant. Lee made some comments such as "is it like last time" and the "secret" comment at the memorial. I don't know I just feel like it would explain the weirdness around the pregnancy with Caylee, Lee's reaction and CA not admitting to it until Casey was outed by her uncle. Maybe CA suspected ICA had been pregnant at some previous time and maybe even suspected the baby was "dumped" somewhere after birth but is in such pathological denial that she can't admit her daughter would do something like that. I know it's just a way out there feeling but I always wondered if there was a little newborn skeleton in those woods too...

Apparently Casey was pregnant at least once before. Here is a link to some correspondence from Shirley (Cindy's mom and someone else named Maryloubea) where they write about Casey being pg the last time around. Scroll down to 7/11/2008, 5 14 31 am
http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2010/1102/25605267.pdf

 

[com n sense]

It would be quite interesting for these pets' vets to compare notes. In fact, I'd love to see someone exhume the dogs' bones and do tests that check for certain chemicals and compounds. They do that for humans--can it be done for dogs? Wouldn't it have been interesting for the prosecution to have thought of that angle and pursued it?

I find it very suspicious that they only had 2 put down at the vet. The others died at home. That tells me that they were afraid to take them to the vet for fear of the Dr knowing what happeened to them or there are alot of accidents at the Anthony home.
Either way, it makes one think somethings not right.

 

[mendz]

i worked at a vet specialist office for 3 years (critical care pets). not many survived, unfortunately, and most owners opted for cremation. however, those that wanted to take their pets home for burial were secured in black plastic (no one wants to see what's in there) and taped tightly shut. a toy or blanket could obviously be included in the wrap but most people preferred to add those items at burial. *two cents*

 

[crucibelle]

i hate to think that she's that much of a sociopath... but they sure did seem to go through a lot of pets. i thought my family went through a lot of pets growing up but not nearly as many as the anthonys did.

My thoughts, exactly -- especially when mother dog & pup were mentioned and they had died within months of each other.

 

[strawberry]

You know someone, and I don't remember who, said this testimony was devastating for the defense. She learned (if true :wink: ) that this is how you bury pets. They buried pets in their back yard. A few days after Caylee goes missing she borrows a shovel, and the dogs hit in the back yard. I now think she backed the car up to bag her up like they did their pets, cuz that's what Caylee was to her, borrowed the shovel, put Caylee in the back yard to bury but could not (duh). Then after GA almost caught her, she hurried and dumped her in the swamp. OR she had her in the back yard unbagged and this is why grass doesn't grow there, then bags her. But anyway, that was her intention IMO. The "girl" is evil.

 

[FX Wiz]

It's (these rituals) not good for the Pros as far as seeking the death penalty because it shows reason for taping body post mortem.

But that was freaky today while in workshop w/ radio on hearing CA saying (this is not a quote but) that one of the dogs was the mother of another but they died 6 months apart and CA emphasized that she called them her "babies".

I've always maintained that ICA was CA's "baby" all the way up until Caylee was born. Then overnight, ICA could no longer be the "baby", in fact became the opposite as CA used words like loser, dropout, irresponsible, going nowhere, unfit mother...
ICA HATED the idea of being replaced. She wanted it back "like it used to be", just her and doting Mom & Dad takin care of her. A hatred for CA built up and ICA punished her by taking away her "baby".
Gawd, now I realize it's possible she punished CA early on by taking away one or more of her "babies"/ pups? When will the twists and turns stop coming?

 

[yllek]

I think the pet testimony was Baez's last ditch attempt to tie George to the duct tape and link him to disposing of bodies. Epic fail. It was unintentionally eerie testimony, imo.

Nothing the defense presented in its entire case linked George to Caylee's disposal, but so much of the state's evidence linked Casey. Instead of the pet testimony linking George to Caylee's disposal, it clarified for me why Casey chose the manner of disposal that she did and why she borrowed a shovel. It also made me wonder (again) whether the pets she buried at the makeshift pet cemetery near where Caylee was found had actually died of natural causes. Today, Baez helped me make the leap to also wondering whether all the family pets that we learned were buried in the backyard had died of natural causes. I think this failure to connect the dots as he intended at the very end of the defense's case was one of Baez's worst strategic failures and was highly incriminating to the inmate.

I wonder how many of the "family secrets" are actually secrets about things Casey has done? Did her dysfunctional family enable her to become a lying killer, or is it possible not knowing how to deal with a psychopathic child resulted in the major dysfunction we see in this family. Chicken or the egg?

At the end of the day, the pet testimony is important, imo. When the jury deliberates whether Casey intentionally killed her daughter Caylee, I would not be surprised if some jurors feel that, yep, she got rid of Caylee like a pet when she didn't want to take care of her and no one else would do it for her whenever she wanted. JMO...

 

[Tuffy]

Regardless of whether or not she was a budding Dahmer practising on the pets... as a defense attorney, when your client is on trial for the murder of a small child, on your last day of presenting your defense ie part of your big finish, you DO NOT put the image of a ton of dead pets in the jury's mind. NO NO NO NO NO! I mean W T FRAK!

I know! He went through the whole list of pets, and how they were buried. Talking about wrapping them in trash bags, and duct tape, he was basically reminding the jury of how Caylee was found.

Not only that, but dragging Caylee's family back to the stand to remind them of their long lost pets.

It was hard to listen to. IMO

 

[crucibelle]

WAY OT but...I have had a bad feeling for a long time that Casey may have been pregnant and "gotten rid of " another baby sometime in high school. Go with me for a minute. So CA talked about Casey quitting track in high school and gaining 15 pounds, she also talked about Casey's irregular periods and the fact that she and Casey would joke about being sooo bloated with PMS as to look pregnant. Lee made some comments such as "is it like last time" and the "secret" comment at the memorial. I don't know I just feel like it would explain the weirdness around the pregnancy with Caylee, Lee's reaction and CA not admitting to it until Casey was outed by her uncle. Maybe CA suspected ICA had been pregnant at some previous time and maybe even suspected the baby was "dumped" somewhere after birth but is in such pathological denial that she can't admit her daughter would do something like that. I know it's just a way out there feeling but I always wondered if there was a little newborn skeleton in those woods too...

BBM. I've always had this feeling as well. It certainly would explain many things.

 

[Gracenote]

Like so many have said, Baez gave us the answer today, why Caylee was wrapped as she was and who did it and it was not in any way George Anthony. How on earth did Baez think that little segue was good for his client? This was his big finish? He finished off his client in my opinion.

OT: I am old fashioned in that I prefer telling kids that Fluffy went to heaven or went to play with Grandma or some other tale. Not bagging, taping and burying them in the yard as a family activity. Course, it depends on the child, I was overly sensitive and didn't deal well with reality. Still don't LOL

Edit-Forgot to add that I think she meant to bury Caylee in the yard but the ground is too hard. I tried to bury my kitty a few years ago but between the tree roots and rock hard ground I finally had to let the vet deal with it.

 

[Leah0107]

It never made sense to me that CA would google 'chlorophyll' or chloroform in relation to sleepy or sluggish acting dogs. Now I can entertain the possibility that CA did do 'some' of the Chloroform searches. Perhaps she saw the history on the computer or found something in the house relating to Chloroform and/or it's ingredients and related it to her dogs being sluggish. I mean we have said it 100x's in other posts - If someone's dog is exhibiting sleepy or sluggish symptoms wouldn't you google something related to sleepy or sluggish dog symptoms, etc. IDK - just some thoughts.

 

[marlap]

I find the "tradition" of wrapping the pets in blankets, plastic & tape and CA's dogs suddenly becoming ill and/or lethargic in March far too coincidental. I think ICA exacted her revenge on her parents by harming their beloved pets and then building up to Caylee.

That behavior usually develops in childhood and who else can a child exert 'authority over' more than an animal - all the better if it's loved by someone you are mad at... That doesn't mean I think she murdered every family pet but given what we know about her parental instincts I'd bet at the very least she contributed to the illness and/or demise of a few animals. Heck, she even blamed a few squirrels for her murderous actions.

In March (17th St. Pat's), (19th ICA’s b'day), (21st Friday night) she was pizzed at her parents again so she decided to start looking into ways to work around this little problem of no babysitter, not being able to go out when she wanted and “selfish” parents from whom she could inherit a house & life insurance if they should befall some sort of household accident.

She saw the “win her over with chloroform” MySpace pix and that gave her one idea… The One Tree Hill episode helped with the backup kidnapping story if anything went wrong… she started experimenting on her mom’s dogs with batches of homemade chloroform... took her several attempts before she finally got the formula correct (84 searches)... who knows how many times she may have searched for it (or worse) before March or on other computers that weren’t searched...

The fight/threats to take Caylee on June 15th and then on the 16th when CA wasn't available or willing to babysit that night… ICA decided that was the final straw and behaved exactly as she described her reason to LA on July 15th; "maybe I’m just a spiteful bi*ch"... (I can almost hear ICA on the afternoon of June 16th – ‘I’ve been calling you all afternoon because I have to go to work and need to know if I can drop off Caylee!!! (CA can’t or says no) Fine!! You want me to be responsible, earn a living and threaten to take her from me but when I need to go to work you can't be bothered with babysitting – surprise, surprise!&#8217 Soooo…. MAYBE….

1.) ICA poured her entire homemade batch of chloroform onto Caylee's blanket, wrapped duct tape around her face & head & tossed her in the trunk. If the chloroform didn't kill Caylee the duct tape would or it would at least keep her quiet in case she woke up. In ICA's plan the duct tape also ties in well with a kidnapping scenario; if it ever comes to that... OR MAYBE...

2.) ICA placed the duct tape on Caylee & threw her in the pool (ties into her "borrowing little bits of truth" for the Caylee drowned & kidnapping stories – just not so much at the same time).... She pulls Caylee out of the pool, wraps her in a blanket, her batch of chloroform spills in the trunk during the rush to get out of the house or she pours it in there just for good measure.

I think ICA borrowed the shovel to bury Caylee in the swamp – not in the back yard, she drove down the street, realized/decided that was too much work to dig so she just left her. Although I wouldn’t put it past ICA to consider burying Caylee in the back yard but only as an added “dig” against her parents (Yet another thing I can hear ICA saying, ‘You want your precious little girl so much – well she is “close to home” with all of your other PETS that you loved more than your own daughter!&#8217.

I don’t think ICA carried Caylee’s decomposing body through the house. I think the decomp in the yard is from ICA jumping in the pool after returning from the swamp. Her OCD parents would absolutely notice mud/dirt tracked into the house & she was in too much of a hurry to leave. She either went into the pool fully clothed or stripped down in the yard (either way her clothes laid in pile in that yard for a bit). She went inside, changed clothes, returned the unused/clean shovel to the neighbor via the side gate, grabbed her dirty clothes from outside, tossed them into the trunk and fled (again). In her rush to get out of the house she left the ladder up & forgot to lock the gate.

Or... maybe I'm totally wrong about everything... would not be the 1st time and won't be my last.

Fantastic summation! I think it was #1.

I never thought ICA removed Caylee from the trunk either. I thought she borrowed the shovel to help get Caylee's remains in the bags while standing directly at the trunk in the garage, then rinsed the shovel (and decomp fluid that was on it) off in the backyard grass (where both dogs hit).

But your theory works too!

 

[ladybug]

It never made sense to me that CA would google 'chlorophyll' or chloroform in relation to sleepy or sluggish acting dogs. Now I can entertain the possibility that CA did do 'some' of the Chloroform searches. Perhaps she saw the history on the computer or found something in the house relating to Chloroform and/or it's ingredients and related it to her dogs being sluggish. I mean we have said it 100x's in other posts - If someone's dog is exhibiting sleepy or sluggish symptoms wouldn't you google something related to sleepy or sluggish dog symptoms, etc. IDK - just some thoughts.

That's the thing though: I would Google "lethargic dog causes" before I would look up chloroform. Or, with Cindy's explanation, I would look up "dogs bamboo".

Besides, Cindy's passionate testimony today about dogs becoming your baby- I'd think she'd at least CALL the vet, I not just take them in.

 

[Donjeta]

Is there any other evidence of the yorkies being tired than Cindy saying so on the stand when talking about making the chloroform searches? Did George or Lee ever say the dogs seemed sick or more tired than usual? Did Cindy mention it in some other context?

What I'm getting at is, if Cindy lied about doing the chloroform searches she might very easily have lied about the reason she did the chloroform searches. She would have had to make something up, and maybe the dogs were never tired at all.

 

[Capri]

"if Zanny has a dog, there must be a Zanny"...does anyone else remember Cindy using that strange flawed logic when trying to explain that Zanny existed early on?
..................................
Here it is
From CA's interview with LE:

Q Let me expand that question out a little bitt. Is there any other person besides your daughter that has told you that they have met or seen Zanny?

A No, but Caylee talked about Zanny’s dog.
Q We’ll get to that in a second.

A She’s another person.

Q I appreciate that. I just want to be clear.

A If there’s a dog that belongs to Zanny, then there must be a Zanny.

Q Fair enough. Besides your daughter and Caylee saying that about the dog, okay, is there any other adult that has said to you I have met Zanny or I know who she is?

A Not that I’m aware of.

Q I’m just going to hit this briefly on this point. You said Caylee talked about the dog. Describe for me what time period we’re talking about that was.

A Probably sometime between March and May of 2008.

Q March and May –

A May have been before that.

Q Anything else besides the statement about the dog?

A She talked about her dog.
Q Okay.

A Caylee loved dogs.
.......................
Lots of dog talk. It almost makes me wonder if Caylee was trying to tell Cindy something was going on with the dogs, and Caylee wouldn't have been verbal enough to get it across correctly. She said that was in March to May, (2008). Just makes you wonder.

 

[Tuffy]

And even further OT is the question of Casey planning to do something to her parents. In addition to chloroform, other methods of death were searched. She told friends that soon she would have the house to herself. Far as I know, the parents were not planning on going anywhere. Escalating from animals to small humans to big humans is not that far fetched.

I think that even if she didn't have concrete plans to do her parents in, she was simply fascinated by the methods of death she was Googling. IMO, she is the murderous type, and probably was fantasizing about these things. I think it's similar to the type of things that Jeffery Dahmer talked about. He said he was compelled to do the things he did. He was actually tortured with thoughts of killing.

 

[marlap]

Like so many have said, Baez gave us the answer today, why Caylee was wrapped as she was and who did it and it was not in any way George Anthony. How on earth did Baez think that little segue was good for his client? This was his big finish? He finished off his client in my opinion.

OT: I am old fashioned in that I prefer telling kids that Fluffy went to heaven or went to play with Grandma or some other tale. Not bagging, taping and burying them in the yard as a family activity. Course, it depends on the child, I was overly sensitive and didn't deal well with reality. Still don't LOL

Edit-Forgot to add that I think she meant to bury Caylee in the yard but the ground is too hard. I tried to bury my kitty a few years ago but between the tree roots and rock hard ground I finally had to let the vet deal with it.

Right! Jose Baez not only made an opening for the mack truck with the pet burial speech....he got behind the mack truck and helped PUSH it through...

 

[Tuffy]

Is there any other evidence of the yorkies being tired than Cindy saying so on the stand when talking about making the chloroform searches? Did George or Lee ever say the dogs seemed sick or more tired than usual? Did Cindy mention it in some other context?

What I'm getting at is, if Cindy lied about doing the chloroform searches she might very easily have lied about the reason she did the chloroform searches. She would have had to make something up, and maybe the dogs were never tired at all.

Just my opinion, but I don't think her dogs were sick at all. Cindy certainly didn't suspect the chlorophyll-packed bamboo leaves of making them sick either.