Defense document - KC swears she didn't report.......

[Friday]

Maybe this is part of the bus rolling. Maybe they will continue to argue that..... "CA is responsible for the death because SHE reported her missing NOT KC. Thus, it wasn't KC's fault. She followed the script, CA didn't." Divert blame!!!

This is an utterly bizarre possibility. Where did you come up with a thing like this? :waitasec:

PS: I think you're right. LOL

 

[lin]

IIRC - she told them the "nanny took her in order to teach her a lesson" but that she would speak to Caylee and that Caylee was fine - which is what she told LE during their interview - she said Caylee was happy and wasn't crying and was being well taken care of by ZG. She said she was trying to find her herself and should have called LE, but again she didn't feel Caylee was in danger.

It was only AFTER her arrest that the A's began their kidnapped stories about dangerous people and KC trying to protect everyone and Caylee being in harms way if the media didn't stop reporting on the case etc.

I don't think KC ever was recorded as saying ZG was dangerous and would kill Caylee - we got that from the A's.

Am I wrong?

KC could totally go to trial and say ZG was a real person, but gave her a fake name and purposely kidnapped Caylee to keep for herself, but then when the media reported on the case and everyone was searching for Caylee - ZG got scared and decided to kill Caylee and frame KC.

JUST because there is no proof of a ZG - doesn't mean the defense can't say there was an ACTUAL person that KC believed was named ZG - that the name was the name given to KC but may not have been her true identity. IMO

I am just trying to understand JB's thinking on staying true to the nanny story and how he will explain this mess at trial.

KC can totally say that ZG never wanted to be photographed or meet her friends or family for the purpose of her plan to steal Caylee from the begining.

"fear of the unknown" "fear of never seeing my daughter again"

Those are just two of her statements that I believe I recall almost verbatim. [ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69640]PattyG did a nice analysis of the written statement, here. [/ame] Here are a few quotes from PattyG's post:

"I avoided calling the police, or even notifying my own family out of fear. I have been and still am afraid of what has, or may happen to Caylee.

I have been and still am afraid of what has , or may happen to Caylee. I have not had any contact with Zenaida since Thursday, June 12, 2008. I received a quick call from Zenaida.

Not once have I been able to ask her for my daughter, or gain any information on where I can find her."

"On Thursday, July 15, 2008 around 12pm, I received a phone call from my daughter, Caylee. Today was the first day I have heard her voice in over 4 weeks. I’m afraid of what Caylee is going through after 31 days, I know that the only thing that matters is getting my daughter back. (in red true statement)

With many and all attempts to contact Zenaida, and with the one short conversation, on June 12, 2008, I was never able to check on the status or well-being of my daughter.

Zenaida never made an attempt to explain why Caylee is no longer in Orlando, or is she is ever going to bring her home."

If this doesn't refresh everyone's memory adequately, I'll try to find a transcript of the audio of her LE interview at Universal.

 

[lin]

FOR THE RECORD:

I hope everyone is paying attention to my discussion with Mendara and finds it as enlightening and positive as do I. After a year of going through all of these things, our memory tends to fade and also with a year of sleuthing under our belts we're able to think of alternate scenarios, explanations, whatever that the jury will not take the time to consider. The jury will be presented with overwhelming amounts of very, very compelling evidence, imo and not divided into separate threads over a long period of time. They'll be presented with the entire picture in a matter of weeks or at most, months. The impact of this mountain range of evidence will not be diluted by the year of details and discussion that we have enjoyed. It will hit them very hard, imo.

JMO

 

[Friday]

The more I read the Motion to Strike and consider this ridiculous sworn statement the more I am concerned that Jose is not competent to even represent this perp. This has got to be THE most ignorant response to date from this group who has been loosely named a "dream team"...No dream team would be so stupid, and so sorry to say that but stupid is as stupid does and this is plain stupid!

The sworn statement does not allude to her innocence or the possibility that she committed a lesser crime...

My head is going to explode on this one for certain!!!

I wish I could share your dismissive attitude about the defense team, but I just can't. JB may be an incompetent, but LKB, AL, et al are razor sharp and thoroughly devious. They're playing mind games right now, but they have a plan and each seeming misstep is part of that plan. They wouldn't remain associated with this case and JB if they didn't foresee a strong possibility of winning. Or so I fear.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Just an opinion here but I think I can see where the signed document by KC will be effective in planting 'reasonable' doubt if not total confusion in the court proceedings. It shows KC did not report Caylee missing because she (KC) did not consider her missing and truly believed she would get Caylee back until the time CA phoned the police. I think jurors will believe KC was a bad mother and made bad decisions but will not equate this with murder. I can also see that other evidence can be explained away to the point there is reasonable doubt created. I wonder why JB hasn't publically stated that Zanny (imaginary) had a key to KC's car? That would not be as crazy as most of his ramblings. I think KC will walk away from a murder charge. I have been researching other trials and the strategies used to confuse the evidence and this case will likely be the model case for defense tactics to muddy the waters. Just thinking that makes me very angry.

I understand your concern, but I don't share it.

I have long since come to the firm conclusion that the only way reasonable doubt could be created is by asking all members of the jury to suspend the ability to think logically and reason things out to a natural conclusion. I find it impossible to allow 'cloudiness' to over-rule my common-sense, and I have faith in my fellow man and the jury's abilities to use their heads without giving undue weight to things the defense might toss out there - but that CAN'T be explained logicially.

In following this case on & offline for over a year, I have only ever discussed it with a handfull of people who lean towards reasonable doubt - 3 of whom just love to play Devil's Advocate for fun & brain exercise.

So we're back to the odds, just as we are with the duct tape, the Nanny, the script... I believe from the thousands of conversations I've read, watched and participated in - the odds are that people are much smarter than we think sometimes, and there aren't very many out there who would have reasonable doubt after viewing all of the evidence, behaviors and statements.

Have ye faith - for LOGIC will prevail!

 

[ThoughtElf]

I wish I could share your dismissive attitude about the defense team, but I just can't. JB may be an incompetent, but LKB, AL, et al are razor sharp and thoroughly devious. They're playing mind games right now, but they have a plan and each seeming misstep is part of that plan. They wouldn't remain associated with this case and JB if they didn't foresee a strong possibility of winning. Or so I fear.

Truth be told, I don't think JB is dumb. He may be lax in how he presents motions, but as I doubt he prepares them himself to begin with, that's just another topic for discussion altogether.

I'll take my beatings: I don't like JB's persona, but I also feel sorry for the man in that he is boxed in entirely by his client. I detest the future money-making opportunities, and I dislike his new-found fame, or rather, I guess it is 'infamy', not fame. Either of which could be why he stays in the game, regardless of likelihood of a 'win'. Even when he loses, he'll still have won a career jumpstart.

Regardless, I do feel sorry for the narrow canyon he has found himself in with this client.

 

[ZsaZsa]

"fear of the unknown" "fear of never seeing my daughter again"

Those are just two of her statements that I believe I recall almost verbatim. PattyG did a nice analysis of the written statement, here. Here are a few quotes from PattyG's post:

"I avoided calling the police, or even notifying my own family out of fear. I have been and still am afraid of what has, or may happen to Caylee.

I have been and still am afraid of what has , or may happen to Caylee. I have not had any contact with Zenaida since Thursday, June 12, 2008. I received a quick call from Zenaida.

Not once have I been able to ask her for my daughter, or gain any information on where I can find her."

"On Thursday, July 15, 2008 around 12pm, I received a phone call from my daughter, Caylee. Today was the first day I have heard her voice in over 4 weeks. I’m afraid of what Caylee is going through after 31 days, I know that the only thing that matters is getting my daughter back. (in red true statement)

With many and all attempts to contact Zenaida, and with the one short conversation, on June 12, 2008, I was never able to check on the status or well-being of my daughter.

Zenaida never made an attempt to explain why Caylee is no longer in Orlando, or is she is ever going to bring her home."

If this doesn't refresh everyone's memory adequately, I'll try to find a transcript of the audio of her LE interview at Universal.

But she did talk to her, she even visited her in the hospital in Tampa!
She really needs to keep her lies in an organized file for faster reference.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I wish I could share your dismissive attitude about the defense team, but I just can't. JB may be an incompetent, but LKB, AL, et al are razor sharp and thoroughly devious. They're playing mind games right now, but they have a plan and each seeming misstep is part of that plan. They wouldn't remain associated with this case and JB if they didn't foresee a strong possibility of winning. Or so I fear.

But finding any story Casey tells as being credible is like watching some movies, you have to suspend disbelief in order to do it...

 

[Mensch]

I understand your concern, but I don't share it.

...I have long since come to the firm conclusion that the only way reasonable doubt could be created is by asking all members of the jury to suspend the ability to think logically and reason things out to a natural conclusion. I find it impossible to allow 'cloudiness' to over-rule my common-sense, and I have faith in my fellow man and the jury's abilities to use their heads without giving undue weight to things the defense might toss out there - but that CAN'T be explained logicially.

Have ye faith - for LOGIC will prevail!

Respectfully sniped and BBM
I am trying to mainain faith in our legal system but it is difficult when more rights are given to criminals than the victims. We have become a loose and tolerant society and there is not much that shocks us into 'reasonable' conclusions.
JB needs only one thing to present to the jury to secure reasonable doubt and that is his client, the perp (moo) KC. The jury will be asked as we are to try to understand the mindset of a 'girl' (I feel he will use this term) who for whatever reason does not think as we think. That puts everyone in a position to look at all the evidence through the eyes of KC...not our good judgement. It will be impossible to reason things out according to the world of KC and this is where I think the jurors will see her as a pathetic excuse for a mother but not as a murderer. I may not be clear in my explanation as I am multitasking. Something I should not try before noon.

 

[lin]

Mendara, I think what you're remembering is KC talking about how much she trusted ZG prior to the kidnapping and how she took good care, etc.

Hope this reassures everyone!

KC part 1 prior to Universal

KC part 2 at Universal

Part 1:

From page 9, lines 22-23, "And after about 7 o’clock when I still hadn’t heard anything I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic."

Page 13, line 10-14, "I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which obviously I couldn’t. And I was scared that something would happen to her if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved. Or my parents which I know would have done the same thing. Just the fear of the unknown. Fear of the potential Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again."

Part 2:

Page 5, line 20, "A I’m scared that... I don’t know where my daughter is."

Page 11, lines 14-16, "The horrible thing that happened is, this is the honest to God’s truth. Of everything that I’ve said I do not know where she is. The last person that I saw her with is Zenaida. She’s the last person that I seen my daughter with."

Page 23, lines 16-17, "Q What are you scared of?
A I’m scared of not seeing my daughter ever again."

Page 37, lines 15-16, "No I do not. I would not have let anything happen to my daughter. Except I made the mistake of trusting another person with her. That’s it."

Page 39, lines 11-12 & 17, "No I sat around yesterday trying to figure out what to do. I’m glad that I ended up seeing my mom. That all of that stuff happened, happened for a reason because (inaudible)

...
I was scared."

Page 40, lines 1-3, "No I’m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me. I’m never gonna forgive myself because there’s that chance that I might not see Caylee again and I don’t want to think about that."

Page 44, lines 2-4, "I’m absolutely petrified. If she was with her family right now she’d be in the best place. She’s not. She’s with someone that I absolutely do not trust. And I’m absolutely scared that..."

Page 44, lines 6-7, "Q That you don’t trust yet was baby sitting your daughter for a year?
A I don’t trust her now, because of what happened."


There are 20 more pages to the 2nd transcript but I think this should reassure everyone that an "I wasn't worried" defense will not fly; it won't even crawl.

 

[lin]

Respectfully sniped and BBM
I am trying to mainain faith in our legal system but it is difficult when more rights are given to criminals than the victims. We have become a loose and tolerant society and there is not much that shocks us into 'reasonable' conclusions.
JB needs only one thing to present to the jury to secure reasonable doubt and that is his client, the perp (moo) KC. The jury will be asked as we are to try to understand the mindset of a 'girl' (I feel he will use this term) who for whatever reason does not think as we think. That puts everyone in a position to look at all the evidence through the eyes of KC...not our good judgement. It will be impossible to reason things out according to the world of KC and this is where I think the jurors will see her as a pathetic excuse for a mother but not as a murderer. I may not be clear in my explanation as I am multitasking. Something I should not try before noon.

You were clear enough, I think. What you're describing is a quasi-insanity plea without actually making that plea. It won't be allowed and wouldn't work even if it were, imo. She knows right from wrong, which is the legal standard and her cover up proves she knew it was wrong.

 

[Mendara]

If she had no reason to report her child missing because she thought she was safe with Zenaida- what about the trip to Tampa when Zenaida was injured? A lot of people have coinicdentally disappeared haven't they, or used false names- Jeffrey, Juliette, Zenaida, all the hospital staff who treated Zenaida, the reporting Police officer at the scene of the accident- did they ALL vanish at the same time as ZFG?

Who did we hear this story from regardign the car accident? Was it from KC herself during her interview or in a written statement? It came from a third party - which means it could just be a lie and not even brought up in court - it is heresay.

I found the transcript:

But I can't link it here but here is what she said during the interview transcribed by me that JB may use at trial to show KC thought Caylee was fine and this is why she did not report her missing:

Q: Is there any underlining cause to why Z would take Caylee?
A: Only how much she loves Caylee and what a great kid she is.

Then she gives this answer as to why she didn't call police:

A: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which obviously I couldn't. And I was scared something would happen to her if I did notify authorities or got the media involved. or my parents which I know would have done the same thing. Just the fear of the unknown. Fear of the potential Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.

But this is what I am talking about her saying regarding her call with Caylee and her being fine:

Q: So, She seemed happy and..
A: a thousand times. She's fine.
Q: She's fine? She's happy?
A. She seemed perfectly fine.

later she says:
A: She wasn't the least bit upset when I spoke to her.

He then tells her if it were him he would have called police and she says:
A: I didn't know what to do. At that point I'm thinking, okay they haven't been gone that long. Maybe I can find them. Maybe I can track them down.

So we all know the phone call is a lie since the time of death is way before this, but what if JB says ZG could have been fooling her with Caylee's voice on the phone and that KC had her old phone that she lost when she got this call and therefore it could not be tracked.

 

[marspiter]

"fear of the unknown" "fear of never seeing my daughter again"

Those are just two of her statements that I believe I recall almost verbatim. PattyG did a nice analysis of the written statement, here. Here are a few quotes from PattyG's post:

"I avoided calling the police, or even notifying my own family out of fear. I have been and still am afraid of what has, or may happen to Caylee.

I have been and still am afraid of what has , or may happen to Caylee. I have not had any contact with Zenaida since Thursday, June 12, 2008. I received a quick call from Zenaida.

Not once have I been able to ask her for my daughter, or gain any information on where I can find her."

"On Thursday, July 15, 2008 around 12pm, I received a phone call from my daughter, Caylee. Today was the first day I have heard her voice in over 4 weeks. I’m afraid of what Caylee is going through after 31 days, I know that the only thing that matters is getting my daughter back. (in red true statement)

With many and all attempts to contact Zenaida, and with the one short conversation, on June 12, 2008, I was never able to check on the status or well-being of my daughter.

Zenaida never made an attempt to explain why Caylee is no longer in Orlando, or is she is ever going to bring her home."

If this doesn't refresh everyone's memory adequately, I'll try to find a transcript of the audio of her LE interview at Universal.

Yes and we know all of those statements by Casey are false because we have video of Caylee on fathers day. So she couldn't have dropped Caylee off with a nanny on the 12th. Also the SA has added the JT techbay guy to the witness list. Which narrows the timeline down between when Caylee was last seen alive and when Casey was with TL on the 16th.

So I would imagine the defense is going to have a very very hard time with this whole nanny story, but as you have said before lin the defense doesn't have much to work with here so they have to use what they got. What they have is an imaginanny plus some smoke and mirror interpretations of evidence and that's it.

I am curious though to see the added motion material. I wonder if Casey is admitting to saying saw dropped Caylee to investigators or if she is swearing she dropped Caylee off.

 

[littlemisslegal]

it is a welll known fact casey is a compulsive liar. that in itself does not make a murderer. yet, her carefree behavior at time of caylee missing puts her in the light of a mom who is without a care in the world. her excuse could be she really thought casey was ok with whoever had her. that cancels out her saying she had to play a script out or things could go wrong . she is her own worst enemy as twisted words can play both ways. it can convict her or if she played it right it could have defended her. if casey had plans to human traffic her daughter and get paid it could have took the 30 days to have caylee be relocated , sold and her to get money. before her birth she wanted to give her up. the thing that confuses some is the pics that show her as a loving mom. smiles, hugs, caylee was dressed to look like a lil model. cindy could have been part of this. the pics will be used to show caylee was well loved and not lacking clothes or toys, the house looks immaculate. then we found out caylee had been dead almost from day one of her actually missing. lead to jurry thinking - ok mom did it or someone else freaked out with fear and killed her . who? family, stranger, the one person we may not know of yet who was to coordinate a fake -real human traffic pay off to casey. b oy- the juror must be open minded to consider all weird possible crazy theories. i do not think cindy or george are in any way part of the death once they may have known she was dead they could have done some cover upto protect their daughter . yet-- i feel they did not know of death till we did. i consider a human trafficking arranged by casey gone wrong. maybe the attorneys will see this post and think- oh yeah-- thats a new defense!! casey not a killer just a mom who wanted to give up baby and mom of hers said no! so-- the story continues to ----- whatever the atty could use.

 

[Friday]

Respectfully sniped and BBM
I am trying to mainain faith in our legal system but it is difficult when more rights are given to criminals than the victims. We have become a loose and tolerant society and there is not much that shocks us into 'reasonable' conclusions.
JB needs only one thing to present to the jury to secure reasonable doubt and that is his client, the perp (moo) KC. The jury will be asked as we are to try to understand the mindset of a 'girl' (I feel he will use this term) who for whatever reason does not think as we think. That puts everyone in a position to look at all the evidence through the eyes of KC...not our good judgement. It will be impossible to reason things out according to the world of KC and this is where I think the jurors will see her as a pathetic excuse for a mother but not as a murderer. I may not be clear in my explanation as I am multitasking. Something I should not try before noon.

I don't disagree, but as I read the part I bolded above, I found myself wondering if those videos of KC the smooth check forger/passer might help portray KC as the devious, skilled criminal she is. Just a thought. Or a hope, really.

 

[Mensch]

You were clear enough, I think. What you're describing is a quasi-insanity plea without actually making that plea. It won't be allowed and wouldn't work even if it were, imo. She knows right from wrong, which is the legal standard and her cover up proves she knew it was wrong.

Not exactly lin. Just a 'girl' with the responsibility of raising a child when she is but a child herself. It will go more to issues of maturity than insanity. Poor KC (*gag) caught between living at home with her parents and living as a partying, free teenager and the world of responsibility which she apparently is not ready for. JB will present her as 'trusting' and caring 'girl' whose trust (in 'Zanny') was misplaced. I can see many ways to get the jury to look at her as a horrible mom and yet understand her inability to act or react as a mature adult. I am also considering the fact a jury would not have benefit of much of the info presented here as WS and in the media. Just my opinion.

 

[countzero]

Not exactly lin. Just a 'girl' with the responsibility of raising a child when she is but a child herself. It will go more to issues of maturity than insanity. Poor KC (*gag) caught between living at home with her parents and living as a partying, free teenager and the world of responsibility which she aparently is not ready for. JB will sho her as 'trusting' and caring and that trust (in 'Zanny') was misplaced. I can see many ways to get the jury to look at her as a horrible mom and yet understand her inability to act or react as a mature adult. I am also considering the fact a jury would not have benefit of much of the info presented here as WS and in the media. Just my opinion.

Yea, well JB good luck with that presentation. What is he gonna say when the duct tape is shown on the power point presentation, in vivid color? How many juror's will make a request to Judge Strickland to be excused to run to the bathrooms?

By the way, I am not about to describe what the jury will see. I think everyone knows what a horror that it is from reading the autopsy reports.

 

[Friday]

Mendara, I think what you're remembering is KC talking about how much she trusted ZG prior to the kidnapping and how she took good care, etc.

Hope this reassures everyone!

KC part 1 prior to Universal

KC part 2 at Universal

Part 1:

From page 9, lines 22-23, "And after about 7 o’clock when I still hadn’t heard anything I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic."

Page 13, line 10-14, "I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which obviously I couldn’t. And I was scared that something would happen to her if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved. Or my parents which I know would have done the same thing. Just the fear of the unknown. Fear of the potential Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again."

Part 2:

Page 5, line 20, "A I’m scared that... I don’t know where my daughter is."

Page 11, lines 14-16, "The horrible thing that happened is, this is the honest to God’s truth. Of everything that I’ve said I do not know where she is. The last person that I saw her with is Zenaida. She’s the last person that I seen my daughter with."

Page 23, lines 16-17, "Q What are you scared of?
A I’m scared of not seeing my daughter ever again."

Page 37, lines 15-16, "No I do not. I would not have let anything happen to my daughter. Except I made the mistake of trusting another person with her. That’s it."

Page 39, lines 11-12 & 17, "No I sat around yesterday trying to figure out what to do. I’m glad that I ended up seeing my mom. That all of that stuff happened, happened for a reason because (inaudible)

...
I was scared."

Page 40, lines 1-3, "No I’m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me. I’m never gonna forgive myself because there’s that chance that I might not see Caylee again and I don’t want to think about that."

Page 44, lines 2-4, "I’m absolutely petrified. If she was with her family right now she’d be in the best place. She’s not. She’s with someone that I absolutely do not trust. And I’m absolutely scared that..."

Page 44, lines 6-7, "Q That you don’t trust yet was baby sitting your daughter for a year?
A I don’t trust her now, because of what happened."


There are 20 more pages to the 2nd transcript but I think this should reassure everyone that an "I wasn't worried" defense will not fly; it won't even crawl.

Brilliant post, Lin, and extremely reassuring, too.

 

[lin]

Yes and we know all of those statements by Casey are false because we have video of Caylee on fathers day. So she couldn't have dropped Caylee off with a nanny on the 12th. Also the SA has added the JT techbay guy to the witness list. Which narrows the timeline down between when Caylee was last seen alive and when Casey was with TL on the 16th.

So I would imagine the defense is going to have a very very hard time with this whole nanny story, but as you have said before lin the defense doesn't have much to work with here so they have to use what they got. What they have is an imaginanny plus some smoke and mirror interpretations of evidence and that's it.

I am curious though to see the added motion material. I wonder if Casey is admitting to saying saw dropped Caylee to investigators or if she is swearing she dropped Caylee off.

Have you seen [ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4232259&postcount=351]this excellent post by Jolynna[/ame]? If what she wrote proves out (and when doesn't it!) I can't see KC not getting the death penalty.

 

[lin]

it is a welll known fact casey is a compulsive liar. that in itself does not make a murderer. yet, her carefree behavior at time of caylee missing puts her in the light of a mom who is without a care in the world. her excuse could be she really thought casey was ok with whoever had her. that cancels out her saying she had to play a script out or things could go wrong . she is her own worst enemy as twisted words can play both ways. it can convict her or if she played it right it could have defended her. if casey had plans to human traffic her daughter and get paid it could have took the 30 days to have caylee be relocated , sold and her to get money. before her birth she wanted to give her up. the thing that confuses some is the pics that show her as a loving mom. smiles, hugs, caylee was dressed to look like a lil model. cindy could have been part of this. the pics will be used to show caylee was well loved and not lacking clothes or toys, the house looks immaculate. then we found out caylee had been dead almost from day one of her actually missing. lead to jurry thinking - ok mom did it or someone else freaked out with fear and killed her . who? family, stranger, the one person we may not know of yet who was to coordinate a fake -real human traffic pay off to casey. b oy- the juror must be open minded to consider all weird possible crazy theories. i do not think cindy or george are in any way part of the death once they may have known she was dead they could have done some cover upto protect their daughter . yet-- i feel they did not know of death till we did. i consider a human trafficking arranged by casey gone wrong

BBM

According to the latest discovery, CA still doesn't know!

Caylee was two years old, not an adult that may have an unknown perpetrator involved. No one had access to Caylee but through her mother. If her mother doesn't name someone, then the SODDI doesn't exist.