Dellen Millard: Innocent Dupe? Alternative Theories

[SnooperDuper]

Ummmm How do you know that DM knows how to erase a VIN? How do you know that DM did anything??? How do you know if he even touched the Harley?

I have not seen anything to suggest this ever..... JMO

It used to be a VIN was just a number on a plate on the dashboard, and that is still true if you own a vintage car. But new vehicles have VINs etched on all their parts so to make it look like a resale part you would need maybe a dremel maybe a paintjob? You would have to take it apart, anyway. That is what I gather.

 

[Blomquist]

It used to be a VIN was just a number on a plate on the dashboard, and that is still true if you own a vintage car. But new vehicles have VINs etched on all their parts so to make it look like a resale part you would need maybe a dremel maybe a paintjob? You would have to take it apart, anyway. That is what I gather.

Yes ..... so how how does this explain why truck was at MB's ??? or explain how anyone can show that DM knows how to change a VIN>???

 

[Snoofo]

Well we know a few telling things about him from the Globe "Chilling new details" article.

- cocaine possession charge
- magic mushrooms possession charge
- DUI charge
- star of a bloody torture video
- failure to appear in court charge
- breach of curfew charge
- no employer is missing him
- graffiti charge
- neighbours crossed the street to avoid him because he made them uncomfortable
- knows/photographed with DM at MS's home
- graffiti buddy is DM's online (Steam) buddy

etc. there have been other articles as well. People just aren't interested in him so they are blind to all the details that have hit the press. I might add, he has dubious choice in friends, who have been visible and vocal in the press (unlike DM's friends).

This doesn't make sense to me.
We have been asked why we aren't defending MS as much as DM.
There isn't a lot of information IMO to be able to say MS is guilty or innocent, as cansleuther wisely pointed out.
Your comment: "People just aren't interested in him so they are blind to all the details that have hit the press." We arent blind to the details - these are precisely some of the reasons why it is difficult to defend him as much as DM, asides from the fact LE has provided zero information about why he was arrested so how can we refute the allegations?
It sounds like you are suggesting we are defending MS notwithstanding the unfavourable information about him in the MSM. Which is confusing after we've been accused of not defending him as much as DM. :banghead:
So which one is it?

 

[Alethea Dice]

Regarding MS, I think the opposite could also be said. Why is no one condemning him on the information available? He does seem the more likely of the two to expect this from. Why does everyone assume that DM is the leader? It's almost like the feeling is that MS was just the tagalong. It could be that DM just had the tools needed and, for that reason, was taken along for the ride, maybe knowingly, maybe unknowingly.

JMO

 

[Juballee]

We don't know that there was hugely incriminating evidence as it relates to murder (chop shop, yes, but murder?)

Also, I have no clue what re-vinning equipment or process is involved. Could be something that was easily done inside the trailer with no need to be at the hangar at all. Dunno, maybe just a pair of pliers and an embossing/stamping device ... no clue.

OH hold on ... Clue !! This is a stamping kit for blank VIN plates:

http://www.vin-plate.co.uk/number_punch_kit.html

I don't understand why folks think he should have left the truck at the hangar. It's been discussed before, that with the potential for other people to be in and out of the hangar seeing the truck, why would he leave it there? Makes much more sense to me to hide the truck in the trailer, remove the trailer to a location where it would not normally be, and where he thought nobody would notice. Also, Kleinburg isn't a great distance ... presumably they thought nothing of driving from Etobicoke to Ancaster to Ayr; why would Kleinburg pose an issue? Killing a guy doesn't make a lot of sense either, so driving to Kleinburg (other than it is his mom's place) may not have to make total sense.

I think that the potential for other people to be in and out of the hanger is negated by the fact that it was his own hanger. He obviously had more control over what might happen in his own hanger than he would have over an entire residential street where he didn't even live and couldn't keep an eye on it. How many people do we suppose enter that hanger on any given day, and how many walk or drive or look out their windows at MB's street every day?

Are we to assume that if he had left the truck in a locked trailer in the hanger, that he couldn't trust that an employee or delivery person would not to break the lock and look inside the trailer out of curiosity? Especially when we have seen from the photos that there was likely often at least one trailer there, it doesn't make sense that he would not trust his own employees over strangers. The reason he should have left the truck at the hanger is because he could control who came in and went out, and keep it out of sight in the trailer at the same time.

Also, if chopping it was the goal, that is where it would supposedly happen. If the hanger really was his own personal chop shop, as is being alleged, why would a truck or even a trailer with a lock seem out of place there? Again, this just seems illogical to me.

In my opinion, removing the trailer to somewhere where it would not normally be just draws more attention to it, and it would make more sense to remove it to where there were other trailers or where people were used to seeing trailers, and it could blend right in. When you put something where it is not normally seen, it makes it more noticeable, not less noticeable, logically.

And I am sure that while they might have been accustomed to driving distances to commute, I think that driving the same distance or further with a wanted vehicle in your trailer might pose a slightly different issue than a normal commute, and make one think twice before committing to it, if remaining hidden was the goal.

I think saying that since killing someone doesn't make sense, that now we don't have worry that anything he does will make sense, would allow for any ridiculous scenarios. It's not really a strong argument in my opinion.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Regarding MS, I think the opposite could also be said. Why is no one condemning him on the information available? He does seem the more likely of the two to expect this from. Why does everyone assume that DM is the leader? It's almost like the feeling is that MS was just the tagalong. It could be that DM just had the tools needed and, for that reason, was taken along for the ride, maybe knowingly, maybe unknowingly.

JMO

In the 'letter', DM opens with "The prisoners here call me BigD." and signs off "- Dellen-(BigD)"...he wants Dee to know he is, and call him, "BigD", the boss, the one in charge.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think that the potential for other people to be in and out of the hanger is negated by the fact that it was his own hanger. He obviously had more control over what might happen in his own hanger than he would have over an entire residential street where he didn't even live and couldn't keep an eye on it. How many people do we suppose enter that hanger on any given day, and how many walk or drive or look out their windows at MB's street every day?

Are we to assume that if he had left the truck in a locked trailer in the hanger, that he couldn't trust that an employee or delivery person would not to break the lock and look inside the trailer out of curiosity? Especially when we have seen from the photos that there was likely often at least one trailer there, it doesn't make sense that he would not trust his own employees over strangers. The reason he should have left the truck at the hanger is because he could control who came in and went out, and keep it out of sight in the trailer at the same time.

Also, if chopping it was the goal, that is where it would supposedly happen. If the hanger really was his own personal chop shop, as is being alleged, why would a truck or even a trailer with a lock seem out of place there? Again, this just seems illogical to me.

In my opinion, removing the trailer to somewhere where it would not normally be just draws more attention to it, and it would make more sense to remove it to where there were other trailers or where people were used to seeing trailers, and it could blend right in. When you put something where it is not normally seen, it makes it more noticeable, not less noticeable, logically.

And I am sure that while they might have been accustomed to driving distances to commute, I think that driving the same distance or further with a wanted vehicle in your trailer might pose a slightly different issue than a normal commute, and make one think twice before committing to it, if remaining hidden was the goal.

I think saying that since killing someone doesn't make sense, that now we don't have worry that anything he does will make sense, would allow for any ridiculous scenarios. It's not really a strong argument in my opinion.

Never underestimate the power of PANIC. This was a very hot truck: the description and plate was all over the news immediately.

 

[Sillybilly]

Never underestimate the power of PANIC. This was a very hot truck: the description and plate was all over the news immediately.

And the trailer was somewhere other than his mom's driveway prior to Wednesday night. Wherever it was (hangar or otherwise) it seems it got moved for some reason.

 

[robynhood]

JMO..I think The HEAT was on D.M.....and I also think he may have been followed BEFORE he was arrested on Saturday...so it would make SENSE to move that trailer with the HOT TRUCK TB real quick ..like poste Silly Billy said and SnooperDupoer...if you were being followed I am sure you would be on PANIC MODE!!...

I do agree with one thing you said JUBallee....putting at TB truck ( where a murder seems to have occurred(....in your mom's DRIVEWAY was not too smart...but than I agree this whole scene is not too smart....IMO...It shall be interesting to hear the Crown's evidence as I am CONFIDENT all the evidence shall Tell a STORY as we are not hearing anything from the defense ...BUT maybe something was said and we do not know...PB would not allow us to hear what MAY have been told...not till court...one never knows in this case....so very strange.. IMO......I must say that ...extremely unusual ....robynhood...

 

[Alethea Dice]

In the 'letter', DM opens with "The prisoners here call me BigD." and signs off "- Dellen-(BigD)"...he wants Dee to know he is, and call him, "BigD", the boss, the one in charge.

Maybe in your eyes, but I don't see it that way. How in charge can you be in any relationship when you're in jail? I had a friend we all called Big "...", and it certainly wasn't because he was a boss or in charge. People do have nicknames. IMO, the first sentence of that letter is just the opening for the "meaningful coincidence" that she is also calling herself Dee.

In any event, I'm not convinced the letter is authentic anyway. IMO, the way AB "authenticated" it leaves much to be desired.

JMO

 

[Blomquist]

Maybe in your eyes, but I don't see it that way. How in charge can you be in any relationship when you're in jail? I had a friend we all called Big "...", and it certainly wasn't because he was a boss or in charge. People do have nicknames. IMO, the first sentence of that letter is just the opening for the "meaningful coincidence" that she is also calling herself Dee.

In any event, I'm not convinced the letter is authentic anyway. IMO, the way AB "authenticated" it leaves much to be desired.

JMO

I have known someone years ago who was known as BigD and it certainly had no reference to the name Dellen .... Also nicknames like Shortstuff and Stumps...along with Superman and even one known as Shrek quite recently due to his size....names connected to ones physical stature, profession or attributes are not unusual... After all many surnames are based on such....eg

Butcher
Baker
Smith
Miller
Short
Long
Cartwright
Dick
Skinner
Tanner

 

[Juballee]

Never underestimate the power of PANIC. This was a very hot truck: the description and plate was all over the news immediately.

It was also a very hot truck Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday and was still just as hot when being moved Thursday night (or perhaps Wednesday night, it is still debatable), but regardless of that, generally panic lessens as time passes, every hour they have not been caught would make the idea that capture was eminent less likely in their minds, logically.

And it was in a trailer, so the licence plate and description would only count if they were pulled over (or in an accident) while transporting it. Which is taking a big, unnecessary, chance, if it was already someplace like the hanger or farm where someone obviously felt it was safe enough to hide other incriminating evidence.

 

[Arnie M]

For DM to park the truck in MB's driveway makes perfect sense to me

In DM's thinking , the last person to be connected to TB's missing truck would be MB

DM was trying to make sure no connection of the truck was traceable to him or his property

DM had probably assured himself that "no traces" of TB remained

Out of all the options , the driveway was the "safest" place to park the hot truck

Other than maybe the curiosity of the next door neighbor ... which in itself would not attract attention from LE

.... and if it became an issue (for the neighbors) it would be a matter of local bylaws (parking large motorhomes or trailers in residential areas) ... it would amount to a city hall warning notice (or parking ticket)

After DM's arrest the neighbor could very well have tipped off LE to the trailer (knowing MB was DM's mom)

There has been mention that MB was not at home during that time .... and if she was ... DM could easily make up a story .... something like he had one of CM's collector Cadillacs in the trailer and wanted a safe place to store it for a week or two .... mothers accept such stories readily.

With all the sympathy I have for SB and the whole TB family .... I cant help but also have sympathy for MB .... I expect this whole situation is very difficult for her.

 

[swedie]

Just thought I would share what I believe is some interesting and important information. I live north of Ayr, a good couple hours from there. Yesterday I went to visit friends south of home. Upon leaving my friends home, I decided to take the hour or so drive and headed to DM's farmland. What a found was very telling. The farmland property is very secluded. I pulled my vehicle over at the gate leading to the barn. It is the only access to the property. Google streetview is very deceiving as to what you can actually see when at the physical location. The barn sits close to the road (my guess approximately 60ish') and it's down in a hollow. The land behind and to the right rises making it impossible to see the fields or bush from the roadway. All I could see was just the very tops of the trees at the start of the bush.

It is very, very secluded. The neighbours to the left have a good view of the field and the bush from their property. Their property buts along the bush and may also be part of the bush. The farmland property to the left of DM's barn, is flat along with the neighbour's property. I was amazed to see the trail/lane along the right side of the barn being fairly steep and immediately turns to the left behind the barn. And as of yesterday, totally grown over with weeds already. It is JMO anyone driving a somewhat noisy diesel truck would have to give in a fair amount of gas to make the steepness of that incline. I feel pretty certain vehicle noise would have easily been heard by the neighbours. And especially a noisy, large diesel truck, assuming they took TB's truck back there. I also assume they left the Yukon parked near the barn until they finished back in the bush. Once the vehicle would have taken an immediate, sharp, left behind the barn, no doubt headlights would be very obvious shining toward the neighbours house and property. I highly doubt the perps were able to go without using their headlights as it would be absolutely pitch black out there.

The next neighbours to those neighbours to the left; from what I could tell, I feel pretty certain they would not have a view of the barn as it is too far away and the land rolls quite a bit. They "might" have a bit of a view of the bush, but I don't believe so.

Now I can see exactly why DM and MS felt they could they get away with murder by hiding TB's body on his farmland back in the bush. Absolutely secluded and IMO if it wasn't for those wonderful, concerned neighbours, who probably heard or seen vehicle activity on DM's property fairly late that night, I feel certain TB never would have been found. If it wasn't for that incinerator peaking the neighbour's curiosity, and whatever aroused them that horrible night, Tim would still be missing. I believe the incinerator was typically kept in the bush and that night they moved it out of the bush to prevent a forest fire. Being in the country and sound travels very easily; the neighbour heard noise back there. It's also likely the neighbours didn't see or hear anything that night, but the next day or so seeing the incinerator in the field raised suspicion. He could have wondered if someone was trying to steal it but the thieves were unsuccessful. That prompted him do do a bit of investigating.

I feel certain this neighbour will be an important witness for the Crown. DM and MS felt they were very secluded, maybe they did take notice of the neighbours close proximity, but noticed the house in darkness and maybe no vehicles in their driveway therefore they were home free. BTW there was no vehicles in the neighbour's driveway yesterday and I noticed their big garage/shop with the red roof has a garage door. They likely keep their vehicles in it. ALL just MOO and observation and HTH.

 

[Arnie M]

swedie.... your 3:03pm post #674 is absolutely excellent. Thank you

 

[Sillybilly]

It was also a very hot truck Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday and was still just as hot when being moved Thursday night (or perhaps Wednesday night, it is still debatable), but regardless of that, generally panic lessens as time passes, every hour they have not been caught would make the idea that capture was eminent less likely in their minds, logically.

And it was in a trailer, so the licence plate and description would only count if they were pulled over (or in an accident) while transporting it. Which is taking a big, unnecessary, chance, if it was already someplace like the hanger or farm where someone obviously felt it was safe enough to hide other incriminating evidence.

Panic also increases when your description is broadcast on national media

Early Wednesday, LE released the initial description of the suspects. Once his description was publicized, DM may have realized someone could possibly make a connection to him and the hangar. IMO, this is why the truck was moved from the hangar (where else would it have been?) to Tinsmith on Wednesday (or Thursday)

 

[swedie]

For DM to park the truck in MB's driveway makes perfect sense to me

In DM's thinking , the last person to be connected to TB's missing truck would be MB

DM was trying to make sure no connection of the truck was traceable to him or his property

DM had probably assured himself that "no traces" of TB remained

Out of all the options , the driveway was the "safest" place to park the hot truck

Other than maybe the curiosity of the next door neighbor ... which in itself would not attract attention from LE

.... and if it became an issue (for the neighbors) it would be a matter of local bylaws (parking large motorhomes or trailers in residential areas) ... it would amount to a city hall warning notice (or parking ticket)

After DM's arrest the neighbor could very well have tipped off LE to the trailer (knowing MB was DM's mom)

There has been mention that MB was not at home during that time .... and if she was ... DM could easily make up a story .... something like he had one of CM's collector Cadillacs in the trailer and wanted a safe place to store it for a week or two .... mothers accept such stories readily.

With all the sympathy I have for SB and the whole TB family .... I cant help but also have sympathy for MB .... I expect this whole situation is very difficult for her.

I so agree with your reasoning Arnie. It's very logical.

DM did not figure his mother's neighbours would pay much attention to his trailer parked in his mother's driveway. Other then take notice of it arriving, or the fact that it was not typical home to it, that would be the extent of it. Personally, if one of my neighbours parked a big trailer in their driveway, it would not raise any suspicion to me. Yes I would take notice but no big deal. Of course unless all of a sudden I was to hear news reports of a missing man and his TRUCK. And then to hear the son of my neighbour who owned that big, black, trailer was arrested in connection to this missing man and his TRUCK. Then YES it would get me thinking of the possibilities and make me curious about that trailer and it's contents.

I do not believe DM was planning on leaving the trailer long in his mother's driveway. It was just to get it away from the hangar, just in case LE should pay the hangar a visit. DM figured by the time LE clued into who his mother was, the trailer with Tim's truck inside would be gone from her driveway as he would have figured out further plans of hiding the truck; taking it from his mother's house. Unfortunately for DM he couldn't come up with a place to hide it before LE arrested him.

Of course we know if framers or OC were involved, they would have either left Tim's truck on the farmland or left TB in his truck on the farmland. They probably would have just set the truck on fire on DM's property if they were trying to cover any of their DNA/evidence. Because this did not happen, just goes to show it was the truck the perps wanted. If the framers were just wanting to frame DM and have him locked up, they would not have given a carp about the truck; after all it was just a frame job. :moo:

 

[Juballee]

Panic also increases when your description is broadcast on national media

Early Wednesday, LE released the initial description of the suspects. Once his description was publicized, DM may have realized someone could possibly make a connection to him and the hangar. IMO, this is why the truck was moved from the hangar (where else would it have been?) to Tinsmith on Wednesday (or Thursday)

That description was so vague, it could have fit a quarter of the people in my neighbourhood. Do we know DM listened to the radio, read the news or watched it on TV?

And if the farm is as secluded as Swedie claims, why not leave the truck there in a trailer? There is still no believable reason for moving the truck and expecting better results for hiding it, in my opinion. If they thought the farm was good enough to hide a body on, why bother risking moving the truck? If they thought the hanger was too hot for the truck, why not move the other stolen parts out at the same time? Anyone who thought that a missing man might be tied to them could expect all of their properties to be at least looked over, even their moms house, their associates homes, their places of business and their places of leisure. To me the only valid reason for moving the vehicle would not be to hide it, but to use it as a form of intimidation or to point the evidence incontrovertibly at the one person.

How about this theory; DM takes his buddy MS for a test drive with RBEG, and unbeknownst to DM, MS has a thought like, 'Wow, this would be a really good way to jack a truck, hmmmm'. MS asks the next day if he can borrow DM's phone and his Yukon, and DM, who may be over-generous with his friends, says yes. MS arranges for himself and another unremarkable looking accomplice or two to take the test drive, shows up at TB's, takes him on a test drive, and kills TB when he won't abandon his truck.

After the killing, they panic, and think about what is going to tie them to the crime. And come up with just DM knowing that they borrowed his phone and truck. So they realize that as far anyone is concerned, it could have been DM who committed the crime; his phone, his truck. Why not complete the puzzle and use his incinerator and leave the body on his property, sounds like the perfect cover. (Which would explain why whoever used it didn't know how to use it properly, if they had not used it before.)

And then after some thought, and a few days of worrying about whether or not DM could be trusted to keep his mouth shut about lending them the Yukon and phone, they decided that leaving the truck in one of his trailers at his Mom's house would ensure his silence and or ensure that he would look so guilty that no one would ever believe him protesting his innocence. Which it may well have. And which would also explain his initial shock and later, remorse, and his inability to actually help LE because of his lack of knowledge. And if he didn't know who the other associates were with MS that night, he could very well be maintaining his silence because he knows they are out there and they could be using MB as his hostage to silence.

The only thing missing would be a believable motive; who would believe a millionaire would steal a lemon of a truck, and kill a man for it, no less? Well, what if they could make it look like he was running a chop shop? If one of the associates knows someone who has a few things they'd like to unload, like a Harley they can't sell and some scraps with ground off vins, how hard would it be to dump a small load out of the Harley trailer at the hanger?

To me that plan sounds far more reasonable to a murderer than playing hot potato with the evidence and leaving lots of places where evidence would be pointing directly to them and them only.

 

[SnooperDuper]

That description was so vague, it could have fit a quarter of the people in my neighbourhood. Do we know DM listened to the radio, read the news or watched it on TV?

I think just to know someone was able to give a description would be disconcerting to DM.

And if the farm is as secluded as Swedie claims, why not leave the truck there in a trailer?

The area may be rural use but I don't think it is secluded. If it were a low traffic area, the road would be dirt or at best oil-sprayed. DM's road is actually paved...and that means traffic.

There is still no believable reason for moving the truck and expecting better results for hiding it, in my opinion.

I just don't think the trailer would be secure from theft on the farm, and the barn there does not provide enough cover.

If they thought the farm was good enough to hide a body on, why bother risking moving the truck?

A body is a much smaller thing to hide, especially if it is burnt. The trailer on the other hand takes up a lot of space and is highly visible (and somewhat out of place...it's not something that you would use to move farm equipment. It's a toy (cars, bikes, etc.) mover and so a big target for theft.

If they thought the hanger was too hot for the truck, why not move the other stolen parts out at the same time?

They had already processed (removed the VIN #s) off all the parts? Remember, it was an unexpected VIN # under the seat that allowed LE to ID that bike. DM may have considered the bike currently unidentifiable.

Anyone who thought that a missing man might be tied to them could expect all of their properties to be at least looked over, even their moms house, their associates homes, their places of business and their places of leisure. To me the only valid reason for moving the vehicle would not be to hide it, but to use it as a form of intimidation or to point the evidence incontrovertibly at the one person.

Well we don't know what DM knew or expected about his rights vs. being searched. Perhaps he thought that putting the trailer on property that was not his would give LE no grounds to search it.

<rsbm>

 

[SnooperDuper]

<rsbm>

How about this theory; DM takes his buddy MS for a test drive with RBEG, and unbeknownst to DM, MS has a thought like, 'Wow, this would be a really good way to jack a truck, hmmmm'. MS asks the next day if he can borrow DM's phone and his Yukon, and DM, who may be over-generous with his friends, says yes. MS arranges for himself and another unremarkable looking accomplice or two to take the test drive, shows up at TB's, takes him on a test drive, and kills TB when he won't abandon his truck.

After the killing, they panic, and think about what is going to tie them to the crime. And come up with just DM knowing that they borrowed his phone and truck. So they realize that as far anyone is concerned, it could have been DM who committed the crime; his phone, his truck. Why not complete the puzzle and use his incinerator and leave the body on his property, sounds like the perfect cover. (Which would explain why whoever used it didn't know how to use it properly, if they had not used it before.)

Could it be that the incinerator had to be retrieved from the hangar and brought to the farm after there was a body? How would MS get access to the incinerator? He would need a tow vehicle (which he does not have) and access to the hangar (surely someone would stop him from removing a $15 item for no good reason from the hangar?)

MS would also have to have access to the trailer stored at the hangar and face the same difficulties there.

And then after some thought, and a few days of worrying about whether or not DM could be trusted to keep his mouth shut about lending them the Yukon and phone, they decided that leaving the truck in one of his trailers at his Mom's house would ensure his silence and or ensure that he would look so guilty that no one would ever believe him protesting his innocence. Which it may well have. And which would also explain his initial shock and later, remorse, and his inability to actually help LE because of his lack of knowledge. And if he didn't know who the other associates were with MS that night, he could very well be maintaining his silence because he knows they are out there and they could be using MB as his hostage to silence.

DM hasn't been close to MB in the last decade meaning it's likely his buddies don't even know where to find her. If I wanted to keep him quiet I would park that truck at 5 Maple Gate Court. Of course he would just take one of his vehicles and move it somewhere more discreet...he's not helpless in this respect.

The only thing missing would be a believable motive; who would believe a millionaire would steal a lemon of a truck, and kill a man for it, no less? Well, what if they could make it look like he was running a chop shop? If one of the associates knows someone who has a few things they'd like to unload, like a Harley they can't sell and some scraps with ground off vins, how hard would it be to dump a small load out of the Harley trailer at the hanger?

To me that plan sounds far more reasonable to a murderer than playing hot potato with the evidence and leaving lots of places where evidence would be pointing directly to them and them only.

TB and SB knew the truck was a lemon but they did not advertise that! DM would not have known.

If you start out in business, even in crime, you have to start someplace (small).

I don't think the Harley was planted to incriminate DM as it had been scrubbed of VINs/painted. It was only the owners secret marking on the seat that ID'd the bike as stolen. If it was meant to frame someone, it was a very poor choice.